Netsock wrote:

Skipper is a fraud who appeals only to the other frauds here, like Karen
Smith and that USO gofer, Greenhalgh, who, by the way, I outed a bit
earlier today.

ROTFLMAO! First off, you "outed" no one you moron. Everybody here
knows my name, and where I work...that is all public information.
Don't try to pat yourself on the back, just because you can click a
mouse.

And for you to call anybody a fraud, is the most utterly ridiculous
thing ever to come out of that bird-brained controlled pie hole of
yours!

Let's hope this NG is finally on its way to open honest interesting and
lively discussions, and we've put the lame ass mind numbing
"contributions" from the poseurs behind us. If so, newbees can return to
the NG and participate in truly interesting discussions.

--
Skipper

wrote in message
oups.com...
I've posted the first installment of what I hope will be a "happy" tale
on the Pacific NW Boating site. The item does mention two companies
with which I am doing business, and due to that fact it would receive a
mixed reaction here. I have mentioned my boat project in the past, but
here are some additional details for anybody interested:


http://groups.google.com/group/Pacif...5b9c4c3b4d2245


Enjoyed the article, Chuck. Any plans to post some "before and after"
pictures? I identify with your preference for a pilothouse vs. a flybridge.

-Greg

Dene wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
I've posted the first installment of what I hope will be a "happy" tale
on the Pacific NW Boating site. The item does mention two companies
with which I am doing business, and due to that fact it would receive a
mixed reaction here. I have mentioned my boat project in the past, but
here are some additional details for anybody interested:


http://groups.google.com/group/Pacif...5b9c4c3b4d2245


Enjoyed the article, Chuck. Any plans to post some "before and after"
pictures? I identify with your preference for a pilothouse vs. a flybridge.

-Greg


I'd post some photos if I knew how or where to go about it. I don't
really maintain a "home page" or a blog, and there's no provision to
post photos to most NG's.
There will be some photos in the next issue of the magazine, and If I
recall correctly you're down in the Portland area where you can find a
*free copy* (no spam) right after March 15. If not, let me know and
I'll mail you one..

On Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:00:34 -0800, "Dene" wrote:

I identify with your preference for a pilothouse vs. a flybridge.

I don't understand that personally. We have both an upper and lower
helm but almost never use the lower unless there is a thunderstorm
threatening, or it is so hot that air conditioning is absolutely
required. With a good flybridge enclosure you can really have the
best of both worlds - 360 degree visibility from an elevated location,
plus protection from the elements.

On 1 Mar 2006 08:22:26 -0800, wrote:

I'd post some photos if I knew how or where to go about it. I don't
really maintain a "home page" or a blog, and there's no provision to
post photos to most NG's.

We've all been using "alt.binaries.pictures.sports.oceans".

It's just like posting to any other group except that you can also
attach your photo.

Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:00:34 -0800, "Dene" wrote:

I identify with your preference for a pilothouse vs. a flybridge.

I don't understand that personally. We have both an upper and lower
helm but almost never use the lower unless there is a thunderstorm
threatening, or it is so hot that air conditioning is absolutely
required. With a good flybridge enclosure you can really have the
best of both worlds - 360 degree visibility from an elevated location,
plus protection from the elements.

You have outlined the very things that the majority of people who
prefer a flybridge to a pilothouse normally mention. All valid points,
for sure.

The downside of a flybridge:

Here in the Pac NW they are useless 8-9 months out of the year unless
they are fully enclosed. When fully enclosed with canvas, the boat is
suddenly carrying a lot of "sail"
that the NA never really envisioned. We used to boat on a 32- Bayliner
time share boat years ago, (no wisecracks, please), and the draft was
so shallow and the rudders so small that you had to roll up the
flybridge canvas to reduce windage if trying to dock in anything much
over 10-15 kts.

A flybridge raises the COG, and increases the "rolling moment" in a
beam sea. I like a boat where the COG is as low as possible.

While I have "evolved" to an almost constant use of my Simrad
chartplotter, I still keep a paper chart open on the chart table next
to the helm and directly underneath the plotter. The chart helps me
keep a perspective on the "big picture" while I may be zoomed in on
some small detail on the plotter. In the unlikely event that the Simrad
ever goes "boink" when I'm halfway across the Strait of Juan de Fuca or
trying to pick my way along with plotter, radar, and chart after dark I
won't need to start looking for the chart or wonder where the heck I
am. More Old Phogeyism, for sure, but few flybridges have any proper
provision for laying out a chart.

We use our boat at least a little bit every month of the year, and
often have guests aboard. When the weather is crummy, the guests seem
to prefer to sit around the dining table within arm's reach of the
fridge and the hot goodies on the cookstove (and directly over the main
cabin outlet for the diesel furnace). It's tougher to get them up onto
the flybridge in cool or damp weather, and it's not social to abandon
them to their own devices.

Finally, from my pilothouse helm it is one step onto the deck. If we're
trying to make a challenging landing and it is just the Mrs. and myself
aboard, she often needs some help with the lines faster than I can
manage to scramble down from a flybridge.

But what do I know? The most popular selling new boats, even up here in
the Pacific NorthWET, all seem to have eliminated the lower helms to
increase space in the main cabin. My taste isn't always the popular
taste, nor need it be. I think that a majority of people enjoy or even
prefer a flybridge, and the lack of lower helms on many of the new
models doesn't seem to be impacting sales very much. LIke I say, it's
probably not the "rest of the army that's out of step." :-)

On 1 Mar 2006 10:28:36 -0800, wrote:

Here in the Pac NW they are useless 8-9 months out of the year unless
they are fully enclosed. When fully enclosed with canvas, the boat is
suddenly carrying a lot of "sail"
that the NA never really envisioned. We used to boat on a 32- Bayliner
time share boat years ago, (no wisecracks, please), and the draft was
so shallow and the rudders so small that you had to roll up the
flybridge canvas to reduce windage if trying to dock in anything much
over 10-15 kts.

Yes, we had those issues with our old Bertram 33 which at 21,000 lbs
was probably heavier than the Bayliner. It would sail like a kite in
crosswind landings and since we had no lower helm on that boat it was
a long hop down the ladder in order to get a line on the dock.

A flybridge raises the COG, and increases the "rolling moment" in a
beam sea. I like a boat where the COG is as low as possible.

Depends on the boat. If it's fast enough to run on plane, rolling is
not much of an issue. Our GB49 has a fairly low COG and deep draft
but it would still roll quite a bit without the stabilizers. With the
stabilizers we get lazy and careless about leaving stuff laying around
only to be reminded once in a while that forward motion is required
for them to do any good. We lost a television that way waiting for a
drawbridge to open.

While I have "evolved" to an almost constant use of my Simrad
chartplotter, I still keep a paper chart open on the chart table next
to the helm and directly underneath the plotter. The chart helps me
keep a perspective on the "big picture" while I may be zoomed in on
some small detail on the plotter. In the unlikely event that the Simrad
ever goes "boink" when I'm halfway across the Strait of Juan de Fuca or
trying to pick my way along with plotter, radar, and chart after dark I
won't need to start looking for the chart or wonder where the heck I
am. More Old Phogeyism, for sure, but few flybridges have any proper
provision for laying out a chart.

We've addressed all that with a belt and suspenders solution. The
Furuno chartplotter on the flybridge sits side by side with a laptop
displaying raster charts in the same format as paper, fed by a
separate inexpensive GPS. I usually keep the laptop zoomed out and
the Furuno zoomed in. In the evening we use the laptop to plot out
the next days run, and when underway it gives us a constant update on
distance to go and ETA at the destination no matter how many
intervening waypoints are in the route. We covered over 5,000 nautical
miles last year with no paper charts, and no regrets. Once you get
used to the speed, convenience and flexibility of electronic charting
on a laptop you will never go back. It is great for armchair trip
planning also, as well as giving you a detailed electronic log of
everywhere you've been. If the weather is threatening thunderstorms,
I keep a second laptop running at the lower helm.

We use our boat at least a little bit every month of the year, and
often have guests aboard. When the weather is crummy, the guests seem
to prefer to sit around the dining table within arm's reach of the
fridge and the hot goodies on the cookstove (and directly over the main
cabin outlet for the diesel furnace). It's tougher to get them up onto
the flybridge in cool or damp weather, and it's not social to abandon
them to their own devices.

We run an electric heater inside the flybridge enclosure in cool damp
weather, and have an Igloo picnic cooler for beverages.

Finally, from my pilothouse helm it is one step onto the deck. If we're
trying to make a challenging landing and it is just the Mrs. and myself
aboard, she often needs some help with the lines faster than I can
manage to scramble down from a flybridge.

Yes, that is one of the few times I use the lower helm but rarely find
it necessary.

But what do I know? The most popular selling new boats, even up here in
the Pacific NorthWET, all seem to have eliminated the lower helms to
increase space in the main cabin. My taste isn't always the popular
taste, nor need it be. I think that a majority of people enjoy or even
prefer a flybridge, and the lack of lower helms on many of the new
models doesn't seem to be impacting sales very much. LIke I say, it's
probably not the "rest of the army that's out of step." :-)

The view from 15 feet up in the air is absolutely spectacular. I
wouldn't give it up for anything.

wrote in message
ups.com...


I'd post some photos if I knew how or where to go about it.

If you have a digital camera, you can use yahoo's free picture service or
kodak's. Upload the pictures to their website, then post the link. It
comes in the form of a slide show.

Here's an example....

http://www.kodakgallery.com/Slidesho... =-huha2v&Ux=0

I don't
really maintain a "home page" or a blog, and there's no provision to
post photos to most NG's.

Neither do I. I have no idea how to do either a home page or a blog, which
further proves my point on how easy these free programs are to utilize.

There will be some photos in the next issue of the magazine, and If I
recall correctly you're down in the Portland area where you can find a
*free copy* (no spam) right after March 15. If not, let me know and
I'll mail you one..

Thanks! I'm in and out of marine businesses and always are grabbing the
latest edition. I love your magazine!

Love the price too!! ;

-Greg

So, let's see if this works!

Here are the ugliest photos I hope anybody can ever take of my boat.
Sort of like the "before" photos of a guy that's tipping the scales at
300 pounds before he slims down to 190 with the help of Miracle Moe's
diet pills. Remember, she didn't always look this bad and she will be a
thing of beauty once again. :-)
Right now she's beat up enough to where you have to know her to love
her, however....

Every umpteen years, a boat needs a good thorough updating and it's a
little past time for mine.

http://www.kodakgallery.com/Slidesho...8&conn_speed=1



Dene wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...


I'd post some photos if I knew how or where to go about it.

If you have a digital camera, you can use yahoo's free picture service or
kodak's. Upload the pictures to their website, then post the link. It
comes in the form of a slide show.

Here's an example....

http://www.kodakgallery.com/Slidesho... =-huha2v&Ux=0

On 2 Mar 2006 15:56:51 -0800, wrote:


So, let's see if this works!

Here are the ugliest photos I hope anybody can ever take of my boat.
Sort of like the "before" photos of a guy that's tipping the scales at
300 pounds before he slims down to 190 with the help of Miracle Moe's
diet pills. Remember, she didn't always look this bad and she will be a
thing of beauty once again. :-)
Right now she's beat up enough to where you have to know her to love
her, however....

Every umpteen years, a boat needs a good thorough updating and it's a
little past time for mine.

http://www.kodakgallery.com/Slidesho...8&conn_speed=1



Dene wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...


I'd post some photos if I knew how or where to go about it.

If you have a digital camera, you can use yahoo's free picture service or
kodak's. Upload the pictures to their website, then post the link. It
comes in the form of a slide show.

Here's an example....

http://www.kodakgallery.com/Slidesho... =-huha2v&Ux=0


Chuck, I couldn't get there. Could you try the tiny url bit? Or, post them
on alt.binaries.pictures.sports.ocean. Don't let the professional quality
stuff posted by Tom, RCE, et al, intimidate you! :)
--
'Til next time,

John H

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***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
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