"Michael Daly" wrote in message
...

On 13-Jan-2006, KMAN wrote:

I mean so dead that even the Michael Daly Hand Of God manoevre won't save
you!

Since when have I been associated with that technique?

Not sure, I'll give a google and see.

I found this and some other hits: http://tinyurl.com/99aup

Why do you keep claiming that you don't make derogatory comments
about people and then post crap like this?

What are you babbling about? I'm having a laugh here. It just popped in my
head I've seen you bragging about doing the Hand Of God a few times, so it
was a funny reference given the topic.

Do you keep changing your email address so that you can avoid all the
killfiles?

Mike

I'm not aware of any changes to my email address, but killfiles are for the
feeble-minded. Can't you just refrain from opening messages from me if you
don't want to see them? And are you really so fragile that you can't handle
it?

"Andy Baxter" wrote in message
...


Has anyone heard of death by water being driven up the nose while
kayaking?

No. I wonder if this author has confused the phenomenon with "gasp reflex"
which is mentioned at http://www.ckayak.com/coldwater.html and elsewhere. I
read about this in conjunction with preparing lessons for rescuers in
cold-water drowning and rescue.

On 13-Jan-2006, "KMAN" wrote:

I found this and some other hits: http://tinyurl.com/99aup

've mentioned it a few times. Hardly bragging. And that still doesn't
mean that there's any real association of the technique with me.

I'm not aware of any changes to my email address

A brief list:


:

.

Too bad you can't post under your real name.

Can't you just refrain from opening messages from me if you
don't want to see them

Zapping your messages in advance improves this newsgroup's signal
to noise ratio.

Mike

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 07:10:19 GMT, Michael Daly wrote:

On 13-Jan-2006, "KMAN" wrote:

I found this and some other hits: http://tinyurl.com/99aup

've mentioned it a few times. Hardly bragging. And that still doesn't
mean that there's any real association of the technique with me.

I'm not aware of any changes to my email address

A brief list:


:

.

Too bad you can't post under your real name.

Can't you just refrain from opening messages from me if you
don't want to see them

Zapping your messages in advance improves this newsgroup's signal
to noise ratio.

Mike

Michael, apart from the noise, as I understand the technique, when a
kayaker is inverted in a kayak, having blown a roll, the kayaker
reaches a hand up along side the hull of their inverted kayak, and
another kayaker grabs his hand to assist recovery by pulling the
inverted kayaker back up right. Having been in that position a few
times, and not having mastered the roll, I was grateful for the hand
of God that pulled me back up. I really did not care who the other
hand was attached to.

If you have been in a position to assist some less skilled kayakers, I
am sure they appreciated your expertise. I expect that a kayaker would
have had to actually found themselves inverted to appreciate the
technique, while at the same time those who only talk about rolling,
can find it superfulous! OvO

In message .com,
Wilko writes
Andy Baxter wrote:
In Derek Hutchinson's book, "The Complete Book of Sea Kayaking", on page
48 while talking about nose clips he states "...in some cases sudden death
has been caused by water being driven up the nose". Really? It makes
it sound like we cheat death by not wearing a nose plug.

snip

Has anyone heard of death by water being driven up the nose while
kayaking?

Nope, I did read about death by water in the lungs occurring hours
later, up to a day after the victim had gotten (even a little bit of)
water in their lungs. But sudden death?

Aka secondary drowning



Wilko

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d s enl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/


--
Dave Manby

Go kayak surfing and by his theory of water up your nose you should
drown!

In message . com,
Steven writes
well, as i said, it could happen. and as a physician, i have seen cases
of aspiration pneumonia where people die pretty quickly. however, as a
paddler, i have had water up my nose constantly, and i have never even
come close to this. I suspect in order for this to be a reality, it
would be necessary for water to go much further than your nose. the
original claim that water up the nose can be fatal, IMHO, is wrong.


--
Dave Manby

Rob wrote:

Well, you omitted the rest of the reference: " - - bear in mind that - -
in some cases sudden death has been caused by water being driven up the
nose. This has either slowed or arrested the heart through a reflex action
involving the vagus nerve". (I guess I could Google that if I wanted to.)
And he then cites the relevant source.

If you do Google Keatinge, the guy he references, you find that he has
been extensively used as a reference in a lot of articles on hypothermia

So it makes much more sense I guess to read it in it's entirety. Never heard
of it myself, but clearly there is a precedent.

At least once, I guess.

As to his style, bear in mind that book was first published in 1976 (mine is
1997 - the ref is on p.36) and writign styles and attitudes have moved a bit
since the days of the "expert" who knows it all and to whom we ahve to
defer. Today, would it would be written in a more holistic and
self-exploratoty way, to encourage personal discovery?

Not by Derek, it wouldn't. Although since his quad bypass and the death
of his wife, he does seem a bit subdued compared to 5-10 years ago.

Anyway, the man is something of a guru in his own way!

And if you have any doubt of that, you have only to ask him.

Steve




"Andy Baxter" wrote in message
...


In Derek Hutchinson’s book, “The Complete Book of Sea Kayaking”, on page
48 while talking about nose clips he states “…in some cases sudden death
has been caused by water being driven up the nose”. Really? It makes it
sound like we cheat death by not wearing a nose plug.

IMO the book is less than impressive, some interesting material, but a lot
of “look at me” stuff like he wants to score points to nail some kayaking
chicks.

Has anyone heard of death by water being driven up the nose while
kayaking?





--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA

"riverman" wrote in message
oups.com...
Didn't we have a long thread here about 6 years back about near-death
drowning experiences folks here had had?

Yes. That was a good thread. Has it really been that long? My, how time goes
by...

There was also a thread about how many of us are terrified of drowning and
why we boat...

Rebecca Lightning

in article , Michael Daly at
wrote on 1/14/06 2:10 AM:


On 13-Jan-2006, "KMAN" wrote:

I found this and some other hits: http://tinyurl.com/99aup

've mentioned it a few times. Hardly bragging. And that still doesn't
mean that there's any real association of the technique with me.

I got another hit where you are talking about a beginner who would have
drowned had you not saved them with your Hand Of God.

I'm not aware of any changes to my email address

A brief list:


:

.

Whoever used it wasn't me.

I've used the other three over the course of several years and from several
computers, but that's hardly a case of constantly changed my email address
now is it?

Too bad you can't post under your real name.

Can't you just refrain from opening messages from me if you
don't want to see them

Zapping your messages in advance improves this newsgroup's signal
to noise ratio.

Mike

In other words, you can't manage to simply not read messages from me using
your own will power.

Michael Daly wrote:
On 13-Jan-2006, "KMAN" wrote:
Too bad you can't post under your real name.


Can't you just refrain from opening messages from me if you
don't want to see them

Zapping your messages in advance improves this newsgroup's signal
to noise ratio.

Mike

Isn't it sad that two individuals post more individual posts than the
rest combined to this newsgroup?

What's even more pathetic is that the trolls stoop ever lower trying to
get someone, anyone to respond to them, giving them the negative
attention that they crave for. If all else fails, launch personal
attacks, that might get someone to acknowledge their pitiful existence.

Personally, I look forward to having someone around who can help out
when anyone in our group has gotten in trouble. Especially when that
person has experience in giving first aid. I'll go paddle with you
anytime, Mike!

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://wilko.webzone.ru/