!Jones wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 15:46:33 +0100, in rec.boats.paddle Wilko
wrote:


wrote:

I would gravitate toward a normal double sea kayak.
8,000 year old technology and nothing but a paddle to break. You will
have two anyway and i would carry a spare.
Thats just me.
Alex
http://pages.ivillage.com/mcgruer

Two words: "Divorce boat"!

( This coming from a long time Topo-Duo enthousiast:
http://kayaker.nl/niels-35.jpg )


This idea comes from the fact that people will tend to buy such a
thing looking for a patch for an already failing marriage. Consider
how much exercise equipment is owned by people who are morbidly obese;
does exercise equipment, therefore, cause obesity?

We are tandem bicycle enthusiasts and enjoy riding thus; we'd probably
do OK in a tandem kayak except that my wife has an upper body
handicap.

Jones, bicycles are not nearly the same as kayaks. For example, on
whitewater you can't stop everywhere when it suits you, if you flip,
coming up with two paddlers in one boat you require good cooperation,
and on a river, deciding where to go next is quite a different thing
when both paddler can actually steer the boat in different directions,
countering each other's effectiveness out. A bicycle only has one person
steering...

Having said that, I don't disagree with your assertion that there is
already something wrong with the relationship before they got into the
boat, but you could have read that from my other posts further down the
thread. :-)

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

in article , Wilko van den Bergh at
wrote on 2/10/06 3:02 AM:



!Jones wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 15:46:33 +0100, in rec.boats.paddle Wilko
wrote:


wrote:

I would gravitate toward a normal double sea kayak.
8,000 year old technology and nothing but a paddle to break. You will
have two anyway and i would carry a spare.
Thats just me.
Alex
http://pages.ivillage.com/mcgruer

Two words: "Divorce boat"!

( This coming from a long time Topo-Duo enthousiast:
http://kayaker.nl/niels-35.jpg )


This idea comes from the fact that people will tend to buy such a
thing looking for a patch for an already failing marriage. Consider
how much exercise equipment is owned by people who are morbidly obese;
does exercise equipment, therefore, cause obesity?

We are tandem bicycle enthusiasts and enjoy riding thus; we'd probably
do OK in a tandem kayak except that my wife has an upper body
handicap.

Jones, bicycles are not nearly the same as kayaks. For example, on
whitewater you can't stop everywhere when it suits you, if you flip,
coming up with two paddlers in one boat you require good cooperation,
and on a river, deciding where to go next is quite a different thing
when both paddler can actually steer the boat in different directions,
countering each other's effectiveness out. A bicycle only has one person
steering...

Having said that, I don't disagree with your assertion that there is
already something wrong with the relationship before they got into the
boat, but you could have read that from my other posts further down the
thread. :-)

Heehee. And I don't think the idea of the "divorce boat" is that you will
actually get divorced. It just means that a lot of couples become unhapy
with them.

When my wife and I were first looking into kayaking the various outfitters
all told us pretty much the same thing about tandem boats, which was that
most people become unhappy with them in a short period of time because they
are limiting. They wanted to be able to take trips together, but not have to
take the exact same trajectory and see the exact same things.

It's obvious that anything is possible...a couple with a very healthy
marriage could end up not enjoying the tandem experience or a couple with a
crappy marriage might actually love it.

But the tag "divorce boat" got put on tandems because, imo, people involved
in the kayaking industry learned - as a generality - that couples tend to
become unhappy with them.

Keenan
gokayaking.ca

The hobie thing you spoke of....is that the boat with bicycle pedals?

Yeah. Some people claim that they're the greatest thing since sliced
bread. I'm not taking any position, just collecting data.

I'd expect a purist to look down his or her nose at it. I know that
when any machine tries to do *everything*, it usually does nothing very
well. It might work well enough for day outings on our fla****er bays,
though.

Jones

A bicycle only has one person steering...

Not exactly. Try riding with an inexperienced stoker and you'll
agree!!!

There are several (antique) bikes where *both* handlebars are able to
steer: the "Colson" and "Cleveland" models from the early 1900s, for
example.

I would put the two activities in a very similar category. Not that
they are the same; however, a team that is good at one will probably be
able to do the other with practice.

Jones

Anyone who looks down his\her nose.............well what more need be said.
I'm a white water guy but also VP of my club and support the flat water side
just as much. It's all about having fun on the water no matter how one
chooses to do it. I NEVER complain about rafters either! :-) As far as one
boat does it all? No such thing. I have 2 play boats, 2 creekers, several
teaching boats, a touring boat, and 2 solo open boats. Most end up with a
"quiver" of some sort.........I would think the pedal boat to be a good work
out
"!Jones" wrote in message
oups.com...
The hobie thing you spoke of....is that the boat with bicycle pedals?

Yeah. Some people claim that they're the greatest thing since sliced
bread. I'm not taking any position, just collecting data.

I'd expect a purist to look down his or her nose at it. I know that
when any machine tries to do *everything*, it usually does nothing very
well. It might work well enough for day outings on our fla****er bays,
though.

Jones

!Jones wrote:
A bicycle only has one person steering...

Not exactly. Try riding with an inexperienced stoker and you'll
agree!!!

I have, both on a tandem bicycle and tandem kayak. I prefer the tandem
kayak because it doesn't hurt as much when you end up going over
sideways because the other person isn't keeping their balance... :-)

There are several (antique) bikes where *both* handlebars are able to
steer: the "Colson" and "Cleveland" models from the early 1900s, for
example.

Sure, but they're not exactly common modern tandem bicycles, are they? :-)

I would put the two activities in a very similar category. Not that
they are the same; however, a team that is good at one will probably be
able to do the other with practice.

Sorry Jones, I've ridden a bicycle for the past 30 years, almost daily,
going to school and work on my bicycle, untill I got a job which was too
far away for that to be possible. (even in a flat country with bicycle
lanes everywhere, there are limits to what you can do with a bike :-) )
In my view, riding a tandem bicycle is ridiculously easy compared to
paddling a tandem kayak on moving water, both with and without
experienced partners.

I do see parallels, but riding a tandem bike doesn't quite compare.

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

"Wilko" wrote in message
...
!Jones wrote:
A bicycle only has one person steering...

Not exactly. Try riding with an inexperienced stoker and you'll
agree!!!

I have, both on a tandem bicycle and tandem kayak. I prefer the tandem
kayak because it doesn't hurt as much when you end up going over sideways
because the other person isn't keeping their balance... :-)

There are several (antique) bikes where *both* handlebars are able to
steer: the "Colson" and "Cleveland" models from the early 1900s, for
example.

Sure, but they're not exactly common modern tandem bicycles, are they? :-)

I would put the two activities in a very similar category. Not that
they are the same; however, a team that is good at one will probably be
able to do the other with practice.

Sorry Jones, I've ridden a bicycle for the past 30 years, almost daily,
going to school and work on my bicycle, untill I got a job which was too
far away for that to be possible. (even in a flat country with bicycle
lanes everywhere, there are limits to what you can do with a bike :-) )
In my view, riding a tandem bicycle is ridiculously easy compared to
paddling a tandem kayak on moving water, both with and without experienced
partners.

I do see parallels, but riding a tandem bike doesn't quite compare.

I'd suggest it's a bit like riding a tandem bike through downhill
cross-country course :-)

!Jones wrote:
The hobie thing you spoke of....is that the boat with bicycle pedals?

Yeah. Some people claim that they're the greatest thing since sliced
bread. I'm not taking any position, just collecting data.

I'd expect a purist to look down his or her nose at it. I know that
when any machine tries to do *everything*, it usually does nothing very
well. It might work well enough for day outings on our fla****er bays,
though.

They do genereate a lot of power. Go here
http://www.hobiecat.com/kayaking/miragedrive.html and scroll down to
the videos at the bottom. Note that a drag race and cruising are
different, and a real race would probably give different results.

You still need a paddle for reverse and sideways.

Steve

I am a whitewater kayaker and canoer and paddle sea kayaks on the side.
However, I did get the chance to try out the Hobie with the pedals but it
was several years back at Outdoor Retailer when they first came out.
Personally I really liked it. It was a fun boat since there were two
different ways of making it move in the water. It appeared to me that it
was a boat meant for fla****er or very low class I / II. I paddled it solo
and felt I got a great work out. Then I took it out with the rep tandem and
was amazed at how fast we had that thing going while we both of us paddled
and peddled together. It was a stable boat and very entertaining. I really
don't remember having anything negative to say about it except that you had
to remember not to get into to shallow of water because of the pedals
hanging down.

Courtney

"!Jones" wrote in message
oups.com...
The hobie thing you spoke of....is that the boat with bicycle pedals?

Yeah. Some people claim that they're the greatest thing since sliced
bread. I'm not taking any position, just collecting data.

I'd expect a purist to look down his or her nose at it. I know that
when any machine tries to do *everything*, it usually does nothing very
well. It might work well enough for day outings on our fla****er bays,
though.

Jones

Per Courtney:
I really
don't remember having anything negative to say about it except that you had
to remember not to get into to shallow of water because of the pedals
hanging down.

Did you have occasion to take it through any weeds?
--
PeteCresswell