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#1
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OT Right Wing Christian Zealots
wrote in message oups.com... *JimH* wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... In article , says... Remind me again where I said this passage is about teaching a man to fish. If you can reply without name calling it would truly be a miracle. You didn't state that. However, after Bert said, "If Jesus had been a liberal he would have passed out fish instead of teaching people to fish" and I cited the Bible story where Jesus passed out fish to 5,000 people (without asking any of them to learn to fish), you offered your passage in rebuttal. That would seem, by extension, to be supporting Bert's statement that Jesus didn't pass out food to hungry people and instead told them to go learn to fish. Nope. I simply asked jps how he would interpret the passage I quoted. His interpretation was spot on and provided support to my initial point. |
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#2
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OT Right Wing Christian Zealots
*JimH* wrote: wrote in message oups.com... *JimH* wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... In article , says... Remind me again where I said this passage is about teaching a man to fish. If you can reply without name calling it would truly be a miracle. You didn't state that. However, after Bert said, "If Jesus had been a liberal he would have passed out fish instead of teaching people to fish" and I cited the Bible story where Jesus passed out fish to 5,000 people (without asking any of them to learn to fish), you offered your passage in rebuttal. That would seem, by extension, to be supporting Bert's statement that Jesus didn't pass out food to hungry people and instead told them to go learn to fish. Nope. I simply asked jps how he would interpret the passage I quoted. His interpretation was spot on and provided support to my initial point. Still confused, sorry. I don't have any idea whether you are a Christian or not, and it doesn't really matter; do you agree or disagree that according to the 14th Chapter of Matthew Jesus passed out free fish to 5000 hungry people? Do you feel that the story never occured and is simply a metaphor illustrating the wise husbandry of natural resources (fish and grain) managed for abundance rather than exploited for profit? (That's still a reasonably liberal idea- if Jesus had been a conservative with enough bread and fish to feed 5000 hungry people he would have done a quick bit of market research and determined what the going price ought to be. just kidding!) Do you agree or disagree with Bert's statement that Jesus would be more likely to tell a hungry person to go and learn to fish, and perhaps even offer free fishing lessons, than to alleviate the immediate hunger? A group I am loosely associated with helped feed hot chili and chicken soup to over 200 homeless and people yesterday in Occidental Park, near Pioneer Square. In about half an hour, I will be going back downtown to work a breakfast in the basement of an old church, where something around another 200 people will come in for a hot, sit-down meal. We used to do the Saturday feedings at another park just a few blocks away, but frankly the "Christians" ran us out. One guy who was sort of afraid, I guess, to set foot in the park filled with homeless people would stand across the street and yell about hell-fire and damnation on a bullhorn. He was bent on convincing these folks that the next bad decision they made was going to send them straight to hell, where they would burn and suffer for eternity. Another woman who couldn't sing to save her life would stand in the park and bellow "Amazing Grace", "The Old Rugged Cross", and etc- also through a bullhorn. I suspect the folks with the bullhorns threatening eternal suffering in hell or providing some contemporary suffering through really awful and ridiculously loud singing would probably inspire people to go learn to fish. :-) Maybe Bert was right. I sort of see feeding the indigent poor sort of like being a fireman. You can drive down the street and see a house and say, "Oh, look. That house isn't being cared for very well. The yard is overgrown, the paint is peeling off, the porch is sagging and the roof looks bad. It probably needs better plumbing, wiring, and should be remodeled to include a media room. We should pressure the owner to improve his property and bring it up to neighborhood standards. Oh, and yeah- by the way, it's on fire." First thing you do is put out the fire. If our little group feeds 400 people a month, for a year, that's 4800 meals. I would guess that 4799 lives will probably not be significantly altered as the result of a cup of hot chili or a plate of biscuits, sausage, gravy, (and sometimes eggs). But if one person, during the year, either makes a good decision or avoid making a bad one because they have something in thier stomach for a while and that puts their life on a slightly more positive course then it's all worth it. Would Jesus feed the people in the park of serve breakfast in the old church? Who knows. It isn't really about religion, it's about demonstrating some compassion and doing a very small, somewhat insignificant thing to alleviate some want and suffering. Whatever Jesus would do, my point is that there is no Biblical evidence that he would respond to hungry people by suggesting they go and learn to fish. Heck, according to another story he even provided wine to a bunch of folks at a wedding party who had *already* consumed the party's entire supply and couldn't have been entirely sober. Maybe he should have told them to go plant a vinyard. :-) |
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#3
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OT Right Wing Christian Zealots
wrote in message ups.com... *JimH* wrote: wrote in message oups.com... *JimH* wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... In article , says... Remind me again where I said this passage is about teaching a man to fish. If you can reply without name calling it would truly be a miracle. You didn't state that. However, after Bert said, "If Jesus had been a liberal he would have passed out fish instead of teaching people to fish" and I cited the Bible story where Jesus passed out fish to 5,000 people (without asking any of them to learn to fish), you offered your passage in rebuttal. That would seem, by extension, to be supporting Bert's statement that Jesus didn't pass out food to hungry people and instead told them to go learn to fish. Nope. I simply asked jps how he would interpret the passage I quoted. His interpretation was spot on and provided support to my initial point. Still confused, sorry. Nope. I am not. It seems you are though, so I will say it again one more time. I simply asked jps how he would interpret the passage I quoted. His interpretation was spot on and provided support to my initial point. I don't have any idea whether you are a Christian or not, and it doesn't really matter; You are correct. do you agree or disagree that according to the 14th Chapter of Matthew Jesus passed out free fish to 5000 hungry people?= I believe that the miracle occured. Do you agree or disagree with Bert's statement that Jesus would be more likely to tell a hungry person to go and learn to fish, and perhaps even offer free fishing lessons, than to alleviate the immediate hunger? I did not read where Bert said Jesus would just tell someone to go and learn to fish if they were hungry. Could you point that particular quote out for me Chuck? A group I am loosely associated with helped feed hot chili and chicken soup to over 200 homeless and people yesterday in Occidental Park, near Pioneer Square. In about half an hour, I will be going back downtown to work a breakfast in the basement of an old church, where something around another 200 people will come in for a hot, sit-down meal. And that is a great thing you are doing. When are you moving on to the next step........ teaching these folks so they can get a job and provide food for themselves. We used to do the Saturday feedings at another park just a few blocks away, but frankly the "Christians" ran us out. What does a *Christian* look like Chuck? One guy who was sort of afraid, I guess, to set foot in the park filled with homeless people would stand across the street and yell about hell-fire and damnation on a bullhorn. He was bent on convincing these folks that the next bad decision they made was going to send them straight to hell, where they would burn and suffer for eternity. Another woman who couldn't sing to save her life would stand in the park and bellow "Amazing Grace", "The Old Rugged Cross", and etc- also through a bullhorn. I suspect the folks with the bullhorns threatening eternal suffering in hell or providing some contemporary suffering through really awful and ridiculously loud singing would probably inspire people to go learn to fish. :-) Those folks are better described as lunatics Chuck. Yes, I suppost they might be some sort of Christians, but their behavior puts them on the lunatic fringe. BTW: Why do you need to embelish the story? I doubt what you told was anything close to accurate. I sort of see feeding the indigent poor sort of like being a fireman. You can drive down the street and see a house and say, "Oh, look. That house isn't being cared for very well. The yard is overgrown, the paint is peeling off, the porch is sagging and the roof looks bad. It probably needs better plumbing, wiring, and should be remodeled to include a media room. We should pressure the owner to improve his property and bring it up to neighborhood standards. Oh, and yeah- by the way, it's on fire." First thing you do is put out the fire. Yep, and then you teach him how to fish. If our little group feeds 400 people a month, for a year, that's 4800 meals. I would guess that 4799 lives will probably not be significantly altered as the result of a cup of hot chili or a plate of biscuits, sausage, gravy, (and sometimes eggs). But if one person, during the year, either makes a good decision or avoid making a bad one because they have something in thier stomach for a while and that puts their life on a slightly more positive course then it's all worth it. Not if they keep coming back and rely on *you* for their food. |
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#4
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OT Right Wing Christian Zealots
*JimH* wrote: wrote in message ups.com... *JimH* wrote: wrote in message oups.com... *JimH* wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... In article , says... Remind me again where I said this passage is about teaching a man to fish. If you can reply without name calling it would truly be a miracle. You didn't state that. However, after Bert said, "If Jesus had been a liberal he would have passed out fish instead of teaching people to fish" and I cited the Bible story where Jesus passed out fish to 5,000 people (without asking any of them to learn to fish), you offered your passage in rebuttal. That would seem, by extension, to be supporting Bert's statement that Jesus didn't pass out food to hungry people and instead told them to go learn to fish. Nope. I simply asked jps how he would interpret the passage I quoted. His interpretation was spot on and provided support to my initial point. Still confused, sorry. Nope. I am not. It seems you are though, so I will say it again one more time. I simply asked jps how he would interpret the passage I quoted. His interpretation was spot on and provided support to my initial point. I don't have any idea whether you are a Christian or not, and it doesn't really matter; You are correct. do you agree or disagree that according to the 14th Chapter of Matthew Jesus passed out free fish to 5000 hungry people?= I believe that the miracle occured. Do you agree or disagree with Bert's statement that Jesus would be more likely to tell a hungry person to go and learn to fish, and perhaps even offer free fishing lessons, than to alleviate the immediate hunger? I did not read where Bert said Jesus would just tell someone to go and learn to fish if they were hungry. Could you point that particular quote out for me Chuck? Certainly: "He wasn't a raging liberal. If he was then he have been giving out fish instead of teaching people to fish to feed themselves." A group I am loosely associated with helped feed hot chili and chicken soup to over 200 homeless and people yesterday in Occidental Park, near Pioneer Square. In about half an hour, I will be going back downtown to work a breakfast in the basement of an old church, where something around another 200 people will come in for a hot, sit-down meal. And that is a great thing you are doing. When are you moving on to the next step........ teaching these folks so they can get a job and provide food for themselves. We used to do the Saturday feedings at another park just a few blocks away, but frankly the "Christians" ran us out. What does a *Christian* look like Chuck? Like all sorts of things. You can't tell a Christian by looking. However, some Christians are more easily identified by particular behaviors. One guy who was sort of afraid, I guess, to set foot in the park filled with homeless people would stand across the street and yell about hell-fire and damnation on a bullhorn. He was bent on convincing these folks that the next bad decision they made was going to send them straight to hell, where they would burn and suffer for eternity. Another woman who couldn't sing to save her life would stand in the park and bellow "Amazing Grace", "The Old Rugged Cross", and etc- also through a bullhorn. I suspect the folks with the bullhorns threatening eternal suffering in hell or providing some contemporary suffering through really awful and ridiculously loud singing would probably inspire people to go learn to fish. :-) Those folks are better described as lunatics Chuck. Yes, I suppost they might be some sort of Christians, but their behavior puts them on the lunatic fringe. BTW: Why do you need to embelish the story? I doubt what you told was anything close to accurate. Not embellished a bit. And you don't have to look far to find bizarre characters doing strange things in the name of religion. Are you telling me you don't have "street preachers" in your little suburb in Ohio? You probably don't- but next time you're off in an actual city someplace and not hanging out in a well-policed shopping mall keep an eye peeled for street preachers. I've never been to a big city where there *aren't* street preachers. Those two bull horn shouters were on hand for several Saturdays in a row. No embellishment required. |
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#5
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OT Right Wing Christian Zealots
wrote in message oups.com... *JimH* wrote: wrote in message ups.com... *JimH* wrote: wrote in message oups.com... *JimH* wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... In article , says... Remind me again where I said this passage is about teaching a man to fish. If you can reply without name calling it would truly be a miracle. You didn't state that. However, after Bert said, "If Jesus had been a liberal he would have passed out fish instead of teaching people to fish" and I cited the Bible story where Jesus passed out fish to 5,000 people (without asking any of them to learn to fish), you offered your passage in rebuttal. That would seem, by extension, to be supporting Bert's statement that Jesus didn't pass out food to hungry people and instead told them to go learn to fish. Nope. I simply asked jps how he would interpret the passage I quoted. His interpretation was spot on and provided support to my initial point. Still confused, sorry. Nope. I am not. It seems you are though, so I will say it again one more time. I simply asked jps how he would interpret the passage I quoted. His interpretation was spot on and provided support to my initial point. I don't have any idea whether you are a Christian or not, and it doesn't really matter; You are correct. do you agree or disagree that according to the 14th Chapter of Matthew Jesus passed out free fish to 5000 hungry people?= I believe that the miracle occured. Do you agree or disagree with Bert's statement that Jesus would be more likely to tell a hungry person to go and learn to fish, and perhaps even offer free fishing lessons, than to alleviate the immediate hunger? I did not read where Bert said Jesus would just tell someone to go and learn to fish if they were hungry. Could you point that particular quote out for me Chuck? Certainly: "He wasn't a raging liberal. If he was then he have been giving out fish instead of teaching people to fish to feed themselves." There is quite a bit of difference between what you claimed he said and what he actually said. Nice try though. |
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