“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he
will sit in the boat and drink beer all day.”—OldFox





"Mr. Smithers" The University called, I lost my PhD. wrote in message
...
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and
you can sell him fishing equipment.”—Author unknown





"Mr. Smithers" The University called, I lost my PhD. wrote in message
...
"Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and
you have fed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to sell fish and he eats
steak."-Author unknown



"jps" wrote in message
...
In article , says...

Only a person unwilling to know and understand the Bible would take
that
passage as you and Chuck took it. A truly spiritual person sees much
more
in it..........certainly not what Chuck suggested.

Read this passage and tell me what your interpretation is:

John Chapter 21
1
After this, Jesus revealed himself again to his disciples at the Sea
of
Tiberias. He revealed himself in this way.
2
Together were Simon Peter, Thomas called Didymus, Nathanael from Cana
in
Galilee, Zebedee's sons, 2 and two others of his disciples.
3
Simon Peter said to them, "I am going fishing." They said to him, "We
also
will come with you." So they went out and got into the boat, but that
night
they caught nothing.
4
When it was already dawn, Jesus was standing on the shore; but the
disciples did not realize that it was Jesus.
5
Jesus said to them, "Children, have you caught anything to eat?" They
answered him, "No."
6
So he said to them, "Cast the net over the right side of the boat and
you
will find something." So they cast it, and were not able to pull it in
because of the number of fish.
7
So the disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, "It is the Lord."
When
Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he tucked in his garment, for
he was
lightly clad, and jumped into the sea.
8
The other disciples came in the boat, for they were not far from
shore,
only about a hundred yards, dragging the net with the fish.
9
When they climbed out on shore, they saw a charcoal fire with fish on
it
and bread.
10
Jesus said to them, "Bring some of the fish you just caught."
11
So Simon Peter went over and dragged the net ashore full of one
hundred
fifty-three large fish. Even though there were so many, the net was not
torn.
12
Jesus said to them, "Come, have breakfast." And none of the disciples
dared to ask him, Who are you?" because they realized it was the Lord.
13
Jesus came over and took the bread and gave it to them, and in like
manner
the fish.
14 This was now the third time Jesus was revealed to his
disciples
after being raised from the dead.
15
When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon,
son
of John, do you love me more than these?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord,
you
know that I love you." He said to him, "Feed my lambs."
16
He then said to him a second time, "Simon, son of John, do you love
me?"
He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him,
"Tend
my sheep."
17
He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?"
Peter
was distressed that he had said to him a third time, "Do you love me?"
and
he said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you."
(Jesus) said to him, "Feed my sheep.
18
Amen, amen, I say to you, when you were younger, you used to dress
yourself and go where you wanted; but when you grow old, you will
stretch
out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you
do
not want to go."
19
He said this signifying by what kind of death he would glorify God.
And
when he had said this, he said to him, "Follow me."

If you think this passage is about teaching a man to fish you're dimmer
than I could have ever believed.

It's a metaphor for the direction in which you cast your life and faith.

No wonder neo-christians have such a bad name.

jps

"Teach a man to fish, and you introduce another competitor into the
overcrowded fishing industry. Give a man a fish, and you stimulate demand
for your product"


"Mr. Smithers" The University called, I lost my PhD. wrote in message
...
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and
you can sell him fishing equipment.”—Author unknown





"Mr. Smithers" The University called, I lost my PhD. wrote in message
...
"Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and
you have fed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to sell fish and he eats
steak."-Author unknown



"jps" wrote in message
...
In article , says...

Only a person unwilling to know and understand the Bible would take
that
passage as you and Chuck took it. A truly spiritual person sees much
more
in it..........certainly not what Chuck suggested.

Read this passage and tell me what your interpretation is:

John Chapter 21
1
After this, Jesus revealed himself again to his disciples at the Sea
of
Tiberias. He revealed himself in this way.
2
Together were Simon Peter, Thomas called Didymus, Nathanael from Cana
in
Galilee, Zebedee's sons, 2 and two others of his disciples.
3
Simon Peter said to them, "I am going fishing." They said to him, "We
also
will come with you." So they went out and got into the boat, but that
night
they caught nothing.
4
When it was already dawn, Jesus was standing on the shore; but the
disciples did not realize that it was Jesus.
5
Jesus said to them, "Children, have you caught anything to eat?" They
answered him, "No."
6
So he said to them, "Cast the net over the right side of the boat and
you
will find something." So they cast it, and were not able to pull it in
because of the number of fish.
7
So the disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, "It is the Lord."
When
Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he tucked in his garment, for
he was
lightly clad, and jumped into the sea.
8
The other disciples came in the boat, for they were not far from
shore,
only about a hundred yards, dragging the net with the fish.
9
When they climbed out on shore, they saw a charcoal fire with fish on
it
and bread.
10
Jesus said to them, "Bring some of the fish you just caught."
11
So Simon Peter went over and dragged the net ashore full of one
hundred
fifty-three large fish. Even though there were so many, the net was not
torn.
12
Jesus said to them, "Come, have breakfast." And none of the disciples
dared to ask him, Who are you?" because they realized it was the Lord.
13
Jesus came over and took the bread and gave it to them, and in like
manner
the fish.
14 This was now the third time Jesus was revealed to his
disciples
after being raised from the dead.
15
When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon,
son
of John, do you love me more than these?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord,
you
know that I love you." He said to him, "Feed my lambs."
16
He then said to him a second time, "Simon, son of John, do you love
me?"
He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him,
"Tend
my sheep."
17
He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?"
Peter
was distressed that he had said to him a third time, "Do you love me?"
and
he said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you."
(Jesus) said to him, "Feed my sheep.
18
Amen, amen, I say to you, when you were younger, you used to dress
yourself and go where you wanted; but when you grow old, you will
stretch
out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you
do
not want to go."
19
He said this signifying by what kind of death he would glorify God.
And
when he had said this, he said to him, "Follow me."

If you think this passage is about teaching a man to fish you're dimmer
than I could have ever believed.

It's a metaphor for the direction in which you cast your life and faith.

No wonder neo-christians have such a bad name.

jps

Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and run the
risk of overfishing, contravening EU fishing policy, reducing the
biodiversity of the world's oceans and increasing the economic decline of
our once-great fishing industry."


"Mr. Smithers" The University called, I lost my PhD. wrote in message
...
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and
he will sit in the boat and drink beer all day.”—OldFox





"Mr. Smithers" The University called, I lost my PhD. wrote in message
...
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and
you can sell him fishing equipment.”—Author unknown





"Mr. Smithers" The University called, I lost my PhD. wrote in message
...
"Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish;
and you have fed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to sell fish and he
eats steak."-Author unknown



"jps" wrote in message
...
In article , says...

Only a person unwilling to know and understand the Bible would take
that
passage as you and Chuck took it. A truly spiritual person sees much
more
in it..........certainly not what Chuck suggested.

Read this passage and tell me what your interpretation is:

John Chapter 21
1
After this, Jesus revealed himself again to his disciples at the Sea
of
Tiberias. He revealed himself in this way.
2
Together were Simon Peter, Thomas called Didymus, Nathanael from
Cana in
Galilee, Zebedee's sons, 2 and two others of his disciples.
3
Simon Peter said to them, "I am going fishing." They said to him,
"We also
will come with you." So they went out and got into the boat, but that
night
they caught nothing.
4
When it was already dawn, Jesus was standing on the shore; but the
disciples did not realize that it was Jesus.
5
Jesus said to them, "Children, have you caught anything to eat?"
They
answered him, "No."
6
So he said to them, "Cast the net over the right side of the boat
and you
will find something." So they cast it, and were not able to pull it in
because of the number of fish.
7
So the disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, "It is the Lord."
When
Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he tucked in his garment, for
he was
lightly clad, and jumped into the sea.
8
The other disciples came in the boat, for they were not far from
shore,
only about a hundred yards, dragging the net with the fish.
9
When they climbed out on shore, they saw a charcoal fire with fish
on it
and bread.
10
Jesus said to them, "Bring some of the fish you just caught."
11
So Simon Peter went over and dragged the net ashore full of one
hundred
fifty-three large fish. Even though there were so many, the net was
not
torn.
12
Jesus said to them, "Come, have breakfast." And none of the
disciples
dared to ask him, Who are you?" because they realized it was the Lord.
13
Jesus came over and took the bread and gave it to them, and in like
manner
the fish.
14 This was now the third time Jesus was revealed to his
disciples
after being raised from the dead.
15
When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon,
son
of John, do you love me more than these?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord,
you
know that I love you." He said to him, "Feed my lambs."
16
He then said to him a second time, "Simon, son of John, do you love
me?"
He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him,
"Tend
my sheep."
17
He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?"
Peter
was distressed that he had said to him a third time, "Do you love me?"
and
he said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you."
(Jesus) said to him, "Feed my sheep.
18
Amen, amen, I say to you, when you were younger, you used to dress
yourself and go where you wanted; but when you grow old, you will
stretch
out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you
do
not want to go."
19
He said this signifying by what kind of death he would glorify God.
And
when he had said this, he said to him, "Follow me."

If you think this passage is about teaching a man to fish you're dimmer
than I could have ever believed.

It's a metaphor for the direction in which you cast your life and
faith.

No wonder neo-christians have such a bad name.

jps

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article , says...

Only a person unwilling to know and understand the Bible would take that
passage as you and Chuck took it. A truly spiritual person sees much
more
in it..........certainly not what Chuck suggested.

Read this passage and tell me what your interpretation is:

John Chapter 21
1
After this, Jesus revealed himself again to his disciples at the Sea
of
Tiberias. He revealed himself in this way.
2
Together were Simon Peter, Thomas called Didymus, Nathanael from Cana
in
Galilee, Zebedee's sons, 2 and two others of his disciples.
3
Simon Peter said to them, "I am going fishing." They said to him, "We
also
will come with you." So they went out and got into the boat, but that
night
they caught nothing.
4
When it was already dawn, Jesus was standing on the shore; but the
disciples did not realize that it was Jesus.
5
Jesus said to them, "Children, have you caught anything to eat?" They
answered him, "No."
6
So he said to them, "Cast the net over the right side of the boat and
you
will find something." So they cast it, and were not able to pull it in
because of the number of fish.
7
So the disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, "It is the Lord." When
Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he tucked in his garment, for he
was
lightly clad, and jumped into the sea.
8
The other disciples came in the boat, for they were not far from
shore,
only about a hundred yards, dragging the net with the fish.
9
When they climbed out on shore, they saw a charcoal fire with fish on
it
and bread.
10
Jesus said to them, "Bring some of the fish you just caught."
11
So Simon Peter went over and dragged the net ashore full of one
hundred
fifty-three large fish. Even though there were so many, the net was not
torn.
12
Jesus said to them, "Come, have breakfast." And none of the disciples
dared to ask him, Who are you?" because they realized it was the Lord.
13
Jesus came over and took the bread and gave it to them, and in like
manner
the fish.
14 This was now the third time Jesus was revealed to his disciples
after being raised from the dead.
15
When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon,
son
of John, do you love me more than these?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord,
you
know that I love you." He said to him, "Feed my lambs."
16
He then said to him a second time, "Simon, son of John, do you love
me?"
He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him,
"Tend
my sheep."
17
He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?"
Peter
was distressed that he had said to him a third time, "Do you love me?"
and
he said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you."
(Jesus) said to him, "Feed my sheep.
18
Amen, amen, I say to you, when you were younger, you used to dress
yourself and go where you wanted; but when you grow old, you will
stretch
out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you
do
not want to go."
19
He said this signifying by what kind of death he would glorify God.
And
when he had said this, he said to him, "Follow me."

If you think this passage is about teaching a man to fish you're dimmer
than I could have ever believed.

It's a metaphor for the direction in which you cast your life and faith.

No wonder neo-christians have such a bad name.

jps



Remind me again where I said this passage is about teaching a man to fish.

If you can reply without name calling it would truly be a miracle.

And probably end up being blamed for global warming by Kevin

"Mr. Smithers" The University called, I lost my PhD. wrote in message
. ..
Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and run
the
risk of overfishing, contravening EU fishing policy, reducing the
biodiversity of the world's oceans and increasing the economic decline
of
our once-great fishing industry."


"Mr. Smithers" The University called, I lost my PhD. wrote in message
...
"Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish,
and
he will sit in the boat and drink beer all day."-OldFox





"Mr. Smithers" The University called, I lost my PhD. wrote in message
...
"Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish;
and
you can sell him fishing equipment."-Author unknown





"Mr. Smithers" The University called, I lost my PhD. wrote in
message
...
"Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish;
and you have fed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to sell fish and he
eats steak."-Author unknown



"jps" wrote in message
...
In article , says...

Only a person unwilling to know and understand the Bible would take
that
passage as you and Chuck took it. A truly spiritual person sees
much
more
in it..........certainly not what Chuck suggested.

Read this passage and tell me what your interpretation is:

John Chapter 21
1
After this, Jesus revealed himself again to his disciples at the
Sea
of
Tiberias. He revealed himself in this way.
2
Together were Simon Peter, Thomas called Didymus, Nathanael from
Cana in
Galilee, Zebedee's sons, 2 and two others of his disciples.
3
Simon Peter said to them, "I am going fishing." They said to him,
"We also
will come with you." So they went out and got into the boat, but
that
night
they caught nothing.
4
When it was already dawn, Jesus was standing on the shore; but
the
disciples did not realize that it was Jesus.
5
Jesus said to them, "Children, have you caught anything to eat?"
They
answered him, "No."
6
So he said to them, "Cast the net over the right side of the boat
and you
will find something." So they cast it, and were not able to pull it
in
because of the number of fish.
7
So the disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, "It is the Lord."
When
Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he tucked in his garment,
for
he was
lightly clad, and jumped into the sea.
8
The other disciples came in the boat, for they were not far from
shore,
only about a hundred yards, dragging the net with the fish.
9
When they climbed out on shore, they saw a charcoal fire with
fish
on it
and bread.
10
Jesus said to them, "Bring some of the fish you just caught."
11
So Simon Peter went over and dragged the net ashore full of one
hundred
fifty-three large fish. Even though there were so many, the net was
not
torn.
12
Jesus said to them, "Come, have breakfast." And none of the
disciples
dared to ask him, Who are you?" because they realized it was the
Lord.
13
Jesus came over and took the bread and gave it to them, and in
like
manner
the fish.
14 This was now the third time Jesus was revealed to his
disciples
after being raised from the dead.
15
When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter,
"Simon,
son
of John, do you love me more than these?" He said to him, "Yes,
Lord,
you
know that I love you." He said to him, "Feed my lambs."
16
He then said to him a second time, "Simon, son of John, do you
love
me?"
He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to
him,
"Tend
my sheep."
17
He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love
me?"
Peter
was distressed that he had said to him a third time, "Do you love
me?"
and
he said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know that I love
you."
(Jesus) said to him, "Feed my sheep.
18
Amen, amen, I say to you, when you were younger, you used to
dress
yourself and go where you wanted; but when you grow old, you will
stretch
out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where
you
do
not want to go."
19
He said this signifying by what kind of death he would glorify
God.
And
when he had said this, he said to him, "Follow me."

If you think this passage is about teaching a man to fish you're
dimmer
than I could have ever believed.

It's a metaphor for the direction in which you cast your life and
faith.

No wonder neo-christians have such a bad name.

jps

" *JimH*" wrote in message
. ..


"jps" wrote in message
...
In article , says...

Only a person unwilling to know and understand the Bible would take
that
passage as you and Chuck took it. A truly spiritual person sees much
more
in it..........certainly not what Chuck suggested.

Read this passage and tell me what your interpretation is:

John Chapter 21
1
After this, Jesus revealed himself again to his disciples at the Sea
of
Tiberias. He revealed himself in this way.
2
Together were Simon Peter, Thomas called Didymus, Nathanael from Cana
in
Galilee, Zebedee's sons, 2 and two others of his disciples.
3
Simon Peter said to them, "I am going fishing." They said to him, "We
also
will come with you." So they went out and got into the boat, but that
night
they caught nothing.
4
When it was already dawn, Jesus was standing on the shore; but the
disciples did not realize that it was Jesus.
5
Jesus said to them, "Children, have you caught anything to eat?" They
answered him, "No."
6
So he said to them, "Cast the net over the right side of the boat and
you
will find something." So they cast it, and were not able to pull it in
because of the number of fish.
7
So the disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, "It is the Lord."
When
Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he tucked in his garment, for
he was
lightly clad, and jumped into the sea.
8
The other disciples came in the boat, for they were not far from
shore,
only about a hundred yards, dragging the net with the fish.
9
When they climbed out on shore, they saw a charcoal fire with fish on
it
and bread.
10
Jesus said to them, "Bring some of the fish you just caught."
11
So Simon Peter went over and dragged the net ashore full of one
hundred
fifty-three large fish. Even though there were so many, the net was not
torn.
12
Jesus said to them, "Come, have breakfast." And none of the disciples
dared to ask him, Who are you?" because they realized it was the Lord.
13
Jesus came over and took the bread and gave it to them, and in like
manner
the fish.
14 This was now the third time Jesus was revealed to his
disciples
after being raised from the dead.
15
When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon,
son
of John, do you love me more than these?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord,
you
know that I love you." He said to him, "Feed my lambs."
16
He then said to him a second time, "Simon, son of John, do you love
me?"
He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him,
"Tend
my sheep."
17
He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?"
Peter
was distressed that he had said to him a third time, "Do you love me?"
and
he said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you."
(Jesus) said to him, "Feed my sheep.
18
Amen, amen, I say to you, when you were younger, you used to dress
yourself and go where you wanted; but when you grow old, you will
stretch
out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you
do
not want to go."
19
He said this signifying by what kind of death he would glorify God.
And
when he had said this, he said to him, "Follow me."

If you think this passage is about teaching a man to fish you're dimmer
than I could have ever believed.

It's a metaphor for the direction in which you cast your life and faith.

No wonder neo-christians have such a bad name.

jps



Remind me again where I said this passage is about teaching a man to fish.

If you can reply without name calling it would truly be a miracle.


BTW: I almost forgot to thank you.....................for making my point.

*JimH* wrote:

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article , says...



Remind me again where I said this passage is about teaching a man to fish.

If you can reply without name calling it would truly be a miracle.

You didn't state that. However, after Bert said, "If Jesus had been a
liberal he would have passed out fish instead of teaching people to
fish" and I cited the Bible story where Jesus passed out fish to 5,000
people (without asking any of them to learn to fish), you offered your
passage in rebuttal. That would seem, by extension, to be supporting
Bert's statement that Jesus didn't pass out food to hungry people and
instead told them to go learn to fish.

The origin of the line, "Teach a man to fish" is from a Buddhist
philosopher , btw. Doesn't appear anywhere in the Bible- to the very
best of my knowledge.

wrote in message
oups.com...

*JimH* wrote:

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article , says...



Remind me again where I said this passage is about teaching a man to
fish.

If you can reply without name calling it would truly be a miracle.

You didn't state that. However, after Bert said, "If Jesus had been a
liberal he would have passed out fish instead of teaching people to
fish" and I cited the Bible story where Jesus passed out fish to 5,000
people (without asking any of them to learn to fish), you offered your
passage in rebuttal. That would seem, by extension, to be supporting
Bert's statement that Jesus didn't pass out food to hungry people and
instead told them to go learn to fish.

Nope. I simply asked jps how he would interpret the passage I quoted. His
interpretation was spot on and provided support to my initial point.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
*JimH* wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
*JimH* wrote:
"jps" wrote in message
...
In article , says...

Remind me again where I said this passage is about teaching a man to
fish.

If you can reply without name calling it would truly be a miracle.
You didn't state that. However, after Bert said, "If Jesus had been a
liberal he would have passed out fish instead of teaching people to
fish" and I cited the Bible story where Jesus passed out fish to 5,000
people (without asking any of them to learn to fish), you offered your
passage in rebuttal. That would seem, by extension, to be supporting
Bert's statement that Jesus didn't pass out food to hungry people and
instead told them to go learn to fish.

Nope. I simply asked jps how he would interpret the passage I quoted.
His interpretation was spot on and provided support to my initial point.

There is little more ironic on the internet than "Christian
conservatives" trying to figure out what Jesus would do and then
claiming their behavior towards those who need help fits that model.
taught, conflicting biblical passages notwithstanding.


Sorry Harry but you are reading far too much into my reply.

"Mr. Smithers" The University called, I lost my PhD. wrote in message
...
Most church books are subject to an audit. There is a financial committee
who oversees the spending, and an independent auditor reviewing it
annually.


" *JimH*" wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
*JimH* wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
John H. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 19:44:22 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:20:48 -0800, jps wrote:

In article ,
PocoLoco415
@hotmail.com says...
On 11 Nov 2005 15:23:35 -0800, wrote:

Bert Robbins wrote:
"jps" wrote in message
...
In article
.com,
says...

What an idiot!!!! Christians ruled by fear LONG before there
were
liberals!!! You right wing lunatics adopted any and all of
their ideals.
All Abrahamic religions include the hairy thunderer who would
smote
folks for any number of reasons.
There are consequences.

While I don't believe Jesus was the first true liberal, he
certainly was
a raging liberal.
He wasn't a raging liberal. If he was then he have been giving
out fish
instead of teaching people to fish to feed themselves.
Gotcha!

Matthew, Chapter 14

14:15 And when it was evening, his disciples came to him,
saying, This
is a desert place, and the time is now past; send the multitude
away,
that they may go into the villages, and buy themselves victuals.

14:16 But Jesus said unto them, They need not depart; give ye
them to
eat.

14:17 And they say unto him, We have here but five loaves, and
two
fishes.

14:18 He said, Bring them hither to me.

14:19 And he commanded the multitude to sit down on the grass,
and took
the five loaves, and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven,
he
blessed, and brake, and gave the loaves to [his] disciples, and
the
disciples to the multitude.

14:20 And they did all eat, and were filled: and they took up of
the
fragments that remained twelve baskets full.

14:21 And they that had eaten were about five thousand men,
beside
women and children.

14:22 And straightway Jesus constrained his disciples to get
into a
ship, and to go before him unto the other side, while he sent
the
multitudes away.


Do the conservatives have a special version of the story? One
where the
disciples come to Jesus saying "the people are hungry" and he
replies,
"Go then, and teach them how to fish!"? :-)

Looks like he not only "handed out fish", but the bread course
as well.
:-)
You missed the point: He didn't take up a collection from the
disciples to pay
for the fish!
That's the point you want to make, post facto.

The point was Jesus wasn't the one to who came up with "teach a
man to fish."

Sorta like Bush wanting to change his story every time the
previous on didn't quite pan out.

Jesus was into sharing. I'm sure he would have been into the rich
taking care of the poor and having it happen voluntarily.
However, I'm sure if he didn't see it happening voluntarily, he
would not have simply turned his back on the poor. He would have
found some reason the rich would see reason in redistributing
wealth.

"easier for a camel..."

jps
Key word - voluntarily. *If* you attended almost any church, you'd
see just how
much is *voluntarily* given to the poor.

A lot of money is given voluntarily to churches, but that doesn't
mean it is going to the poor.
You, of course, track the budgets and expenditures of all churches. I
should
have known.


That's right, John. Churches never lie about where the money is going,
and Army recruiters never lie to those they are trying to induce into
signing up. Everything is perfect in your world.

Except:

March 5: Missing Church Funds

Reported and Web Produced by: I-Team
Updated: 03/05/04 17:35:08

THE INVESTIGATION INTO THE MISUSE OF FUNDS AT CINCINNATI'S LARGEST
PARISH IS NOW WITH THE HAMILTON COUNTY PROSECUTOR.

I-TEAM REPORTER LAURE QUINLIVAN HAS BEEN FOLLOWING THE ALLEGED MISUSE
OF FUNDS AT GOOD SHEPHERD PARISH BY FORMER PASTOR REVEREND TOM AXE.

LAURE WHAT'S THE LATEST?

PROSECUTOR MIKE ALLEN MUST NOW DECIDE WHETHER TO PRESENT EVIDENCE TO A
GRAND JURY.

REVEREND TOM AXE IS A CLOSE PERSONAL FRIEND OF ARCHBISHOP DANIEL
PILARCZYK, AND THE ARCHDIOCESE IS REFUSING COMMENT ON THIS CASE.

FATHER AXE TOOK EARLY RETIREMENT IN NOVEMBER. IN HIS LAST TALK FROM
THE PULPIT, HE TOLD PARISHONERS AN AUDIT FOUND SOME FUNDS IN A
DISCRETIONARY ACCOUNT WENT FOR THE PASTOR'S PERSONAL BENEFIT. HE SAID
A FULL AUDIT WOULD BE MADE AVAILABLE SOON.

FOUR MONTHS LATER, GOOD SHEPHERD PARISHONERS ARE STILL WAITING TO SEE
THE AUDIT.

PARISHONERS WANT TO KNOW HOW MUCH MONEY WAS TAKEN AND FOR WHAT
PURPOSE.

MONTGOMERY POLICE CHIEF KIRK NORDBLOOM BEGAN A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION
IN DECEMBER.

And about 20,000 other hits.

You can certainly find corruption in all religions Harry. We are human
and have potential moral weaknesses. I knew someone responsible for
counting the collection plate basket and stole cash from it.

Did this make my Church bad or evil?

Yes, there are bad players in all religions. However, I do not think
that the *Church* in general intestinally lies about their donations
and budgets.




That's not my point. My point was that without audited financials, one
has no idea where that collected money is going. My house of worship
publishes an annual financial report AND a quarterly balance sheet in
its newsletter. So does my father-in-law's.

Fair enough. I agree that the Church's books should be subject to audit.
I did not know they weren't.



Maybe they are thinking of Rev. Jackson's church.