*JimH* wrote:
wrote in message
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*JimH* wrote:

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article , says...



Remind me again where I said this passage is about teaching a man to
fish.

If you can reply without name calling it would truly be a miracle.

You didn't state that. However, after Bert said, "If Jesus had been a
liberal he would have passed out fish instead of teaching people to
fish" and I cited the Bible story where Jesus passed out fish to 5,000
people (without asking any of them to learn to fish), you offered your
passage in rebuttal. That would seem, by extension, to be supporting
Bert's statement that Jesus didn't pass out food to hungry people and
instead told them to go learn to fish.

Nope. I simply asked jps how he would interpret the passage I quoted. His
interpretation was spot on and provided support to my initial point.

Still confused, sorry.

I don't have any idea whether you are a Christian or not, and it
doesn't really matter;
do you agree or disagree that according to the 14th Chapter of Matthew
Jesus passed out free fish to 5000 hungry people? Do you feel that the
story never occured and is simply a metaphor illustrating the wise
husbandry of natural resources (fish and grain) managed for abundance
rather than exploited for profit? (That's still a reasonably liberal
idea- if Jesus had been a conservative with enough bread and fish to
feed 5000 hungry people he would have done a quick bit of market
research and determined what the going price ought to be. just
kidding!)

Do you agree or disagree with Bert's statement that Jesus would be more
likely to tell a hungry person to go and learn to fish, and perhaps
even offer free fishing lessons, than to alleviate the immediate
hunger?

A group I am loosely associated with helped feed hot chili and chicken
soup to over 200 homeless and people yesterday in Occidental Park, near
Pioneer Square. In about half an hour, I will be going back downtown to
work a breakfast in the basement of an old church, where something
around another 200 people will come in for a hot, sit-down meal. We
used to do the Saturday feedings at another park just a few blocks
away, but frankly the "Christians" ran us out. One guy who was sort of
afraid, I guess, to set foot in the park filled with homeless people
would stand across the street and yell about hell-fire and damnation on
a bullhorn. He was bent on convincing these folks that the next bad
decision they made was going to send them straight to hell, where they
would burn and suffer for eternity. Another woman who couldn't sing to
save her life would stand in the park and bellow "Amazing Grace", "The
Old Rugged Cross", and etc- also through a bullhorn. I suspect the
folks with the bullhorns threatening eternal suffering in hell or
providing some contemporary suffering through really awful and
ridiculously loud singing would probably inspire people to go learn to
fish. :-) Maybe Bert was right.

I sort of see feeding the indigent poor sort of like being a fireman.
You can drive down the street and see a house and say, "Oh, look. That
house isn't being cared for very well. The yard is overgrown, the paint
is peeling off, the porch is sagging and the roof looks bad. It
probably needs better plumbing, wiring, and should be remodeled to
include a media room.
We should pressure the owner to improve his property and bring it up to
neighborhood standards. Oh, and yeah- by the way, it's on fire." First
thing you do is put out the fire.

If our little group feeds 400 people a month, for a year, that's 4800
meals. I would guess that 4799 lives will probably not be significantly
altered as the result of a cup of hot chili or a plate of biscuits,
sausage, gravy, (and sometimes eggs). But if one person, during the
year, either makes a good decision or avoid making a bad one because
they have something in thier stomach for a while and that puts their
life on a slightly more positive course then it's all worth it.

Would Jesus feed the people in the park of serve breakfast in the old
church? Who knows.
It isn't really about religion, it's about demonstrating some
compassion and doing a very small, somewhat insignificant thing to
alleviate some want and suffering. Whatever Jesus would do, my point is
that there is no Biblical evidence that he would respond to hungry
people by suggesting they go and learn to fish. Heck, according to
another story he even
provided wine to a bunch of folks at a wedding party who had *already*
consumed the party's entire supply and couldn't have been entirely
sober. Maybe he should have told them to go plant a vinyard. :-)

wrote in message
ups.com...

*JimH* wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

*JimH* wrote:

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...



Remind me again where I said this passage is about teaching a man to
fish.

If you can reply without name calling it would truly be a miracle.

You didn't state that. However, after Bert said, "If Jesus had been a
liberal he would have passed out fish instead of teaching people to
fish" and I cited the Bible story where Jesus passed out fish to 5,000
people (without asking any of them to learn to fish), you offered your
passage in rebuttal. That would seem, by extension, to be supporting
Bert's statement that Jesus didn't pass out food to hungry people and
instead told them to go learn to fish.

Nope. I simply asked jps how he would interpret the passage I quoted.
His
interpretation was spot on and provided support to my initial point.

Still confused, sorry.

Nope. I am not. It seems you are though, so I will say it again one more
time.

I simply asked jps how he would interpret the passage I quoted. His
interpretation was spot on and provided support to my initial point.



I don't have any idea whether you are a Christian or not, and it
doesn't really matter;

You are correct.

do you agree or disagree that according to the 14th Chapter of Matthew
Jesus passed out free fish to 5000 hungry people?=


I believe that the miracle occured.



Do you agree or disagree with Bert's statement that Jesus would be more
likely to tell a hungry person to go and learn to fish, and perhaps
even offer free fishing lessons, than to alleviate the immediate
hunger?


I did not read where Bert said Jesus would just tell someone to go and learn
to fish if they were hungry. Could you point that particular quote out for
me Chuck?



A group I am loosely associated with helped feed hot chili and chicken
soup to over 200 homeless and people yesterday in Occidental Park, near
Pioneer Square. In about half an hour, I will be going back downtown to
work a breakfast in the basement of an old church, where something
around another 200 people will come in for a hot, sit-down meal.


And that is a great thing you are doing. When are you moving on to the next
step........ teaching these folks so they can get a job and provide food for
themselves.


We
used to do the Saturday feedings at another park just a few blocks
away, but frankly the "Christians" ran us out.

What does a *Christian* look like Chuck?


One guy who was sort of
afraid, I guess, to set foot in the park filled with homeless people
would stand across the street and yell about hell-fire and damnation on
a bullhorn. He was bent on convincing these folks that the next bad
decision they made was going to send them straight to hell, where they
would burn and suffer for eternity. Another woman who couldn't sing to
save her life would stand in the park and bellow "Amazing Grace", "The
Old Rugged Cross", and etc- also through a bullhorn. I suspect the
folks with the bullhorns threatening eternal suffering in hell or
providing some contemporary suffering through really awful and
ridiculously loud singing would probably inspire people to go learn to
fish. :-)

Those folks are better described as lunatics Chuck. Yes, I suppost they
might be some sort of Christians, but their behavior puts them on the
lunatic fringe.


BTW: Why do you need to embelish the story? I doubt what you told was
anything close to accurate.



I sort of see feeding the indigent poor sort of like being a fireman.
You can drive down the street and see a house and say, "Oh, look. That
house isn't being cared for very well. The yard is overgrown, the paint
is peeling off, the porch is sagging and the roof looks bad. It
probably needs better plumbing, wiring, and should be remodeled to
include a media room.
We should pressure the owner to improve his property and bring it up to
neighborhood standards. Oh, and yeah- by the way, it's on fire." First
thing you do is put out the fire.

Yep, and then you teach him how to fish.



If our little group feeds 400 people a month, for a year, that's 4800
meals. I would guess that 4799 lives will probably not be significantly
altered as the result of a cup of hot chili or a plate of biscuits,
sausage, gravy, (and sometimes eggs). But if one person, during the
year, either makes a good decision or avoid making a bad one because
they have something in thier stomach for a while and that puts their
life on a slightly more positive course then it's all worth it.


Not if they keep coming back and rely on *you* for their food.

On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 20:41:53 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:


March 5: Missing Church Funds

blah, blah...


And about 20,000 other hits.

So? I got 15.7 MILLION hits for "union corruption".

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 10:48:39 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Jack Goff wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 20:41:53 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:


March 5: Missing Church Funds

blah, blah...

And about 20,000 other hits.

So? I got 15.7 MILLION hits for "union corruption".


Hey...don't forget this one, jackoff:

Results 1 - 30 of about 1,470,000 English pages for "jack off"

You're famous!

And I only got 317,000 hits for "rectal fissure". As I suspected,
you're a nobody.

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 16:44:07 GMT, Jack Goff wrote:

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 10:48:39 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Jack Goff wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 20:41:53 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:


March 5: Missing Church Funds

blah, blah...

And about 20,000 other hits.

So? I got 15.7 MILLION hits for "union corruption".


Hey...don't forget this one, jackoff:

Results 1 - 30 of about 1,470,000 English pages for "jack off"

You're famous!

And I only got 317,000 hits for "rectal fissure". As I suspected,
you're a nobody.

You're letting yourself get sucked into his pit.

--
John H.

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

*JimH* wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

*JimH* wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

*JimH* wrote:

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...



Remind me again where I said this passage is about teaching a man to
fish.

If you can reply without name calling it would truly be a miracle.

You didn't state that. However, after Bert said, "If Jesus had been a
liberal he would have passed out fish instead of teaching people to
fish" and I cited the Bible story where Jesus passed out fish to 5,000
people (without asking any of them to learn to fish), you offered your
passage in rebuttal. That would seem, by extension, to be supporting
Bert's statement that Jesus didn't pass out food to hungry people and
instead told them to go learn to fish.

Nope. I simply asked jps how he would interpret the passage I quoted.
His
interpretation was spot on and provided support to my initial point.

Still confused, sorry.

Nope. I am not. It seems you are though, so I will say it again one more
time.

I simply asked jps how he would interpret the passage I quoted. His
interpretation was spot on and provided support to my initial point.



I don't have any idea whether you are a Christian or not, and it
doesn't really matter;

You are correct.

do you agree or disagree that according to the 14th Chapter of Matthew
Jesus passed out free fish to 5000 hungry people?=


I believe that the miracle occured.



Do you agree or disagree with Bert's statement that Jesus would be more
likely to tell a hungry person to go and learn to fish, and perhaps
even offer free fishing lessons, than to alleviate the immediate
hunger?


I did not read where Bert said Jesus would just tell someone to go and learn
to fish if they were hungry. Could you point that particular quote out for
me Chuck?


Certainly:

"He wasn't a raging liberal. If he was then he have been giving out
fish
instead of teaching people to fish to feed themselves."








A group I am loosely associated with helped feed hot chili and chicken
soup to over 200 homeless and people yesterday in Occidental Park, near
Pioneer Square. In about half an hour, I will be going back downtown to
work a breakfast in the basement of an old church, where something
around another 200 people will come in for a hot, sit-down meal.


And that is a great thing you are doing. When are you moving on to the next
step........ teaching these folks so they can get a job and provide food for
themselves.


We
used to do the Saturday feedings at another park just a few blocks
away, but frankly the "Christians" ran us out.

What does a *Christian* look like Chuck?


Like all sorts of things. You can't tell a Christian by looking.
However, some Christians are more easily identified by particular
behaviors.





One guy who was sort of
afraid, I guess, to set foot in the park filled with homeless people
would stand across the street and yell about hell-fire and damnation on
a bullhorn. He was bent on convincing these folks that the next bad
decision they made was going to send them straight to hell, where they
would burn and suffer for eternity. Another woman who couldn't sing to
save her life would stand in the park and bellow "Amazing Grace", "The
Old Rugged Cross", and etc- also through a bullhorn. I suspect the
folks with the bullhorns threatening eternal suffering in hell or
providing some contemporary suffering through really awful and
ridiculously loud singing would probably inspire people to go learn to
fish. :-)

Those folks are better described as lunatics Chuck. Yes, I suppost they
might be some sort of Christians, but their behavior puts them on the
lunatic fringe.


BTW: Why do you need to embelish the story? I doubt what you told was
anything close to accurate.


Not embellished a bit. And you don't have to look far to find bizarre
characters doing strange things in the name of religion. Are you
telling me you don't have "street preachers" in your little suburb in
Ohio? You probably don't- but next time you're off in an actual city
someplace and not hanging out in a well-policed shopping mall keep an
eye peeled for street preachers. I've never been to a big city where
there *aren't* street preachers. Those two bull horn shouters were on
hand for several Saturdays in a row. No embellishment required.

wrote in message
oups.com...

*JimH* wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

*JimH* wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

*JimH* wrote:

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...



Remind me again where I said this passage is about teaching a man
to
fish.

If you can reply without name calling it would truly be a miracle.

You didn't state that. However, after Bert said, "If Jesus had been
a
liberal he would have passed out fish instead of teaching people to
fish" and I cited the Bible story where Jesus passed out fish to
5,000
people (without asking any of them to learn to fish), you offered
your
passage in rebuttal. That would seem, by extension, to be supporting
Bert's statement that Jesus didn't pass out food to hungry people
and
instead told them to go learn to fish.

Nope. I simply asked jps how he would interpret the passage I quoted.
His
interpretation was spot on and provided support to my initial point.

Still confused, sorry.

Nope. I am not. It seems you are though, so I will say it again one
more
time.

I simply asked jps how he would interpret the passage I quoted. His
interpretation was spot on and provided support to my initial point.



I don't have any idea whether you are a Christian or not, and it
doesn't really matter;

You are correct.

do you agree or disagree that according to the 14th Chapter of Matthew
Jesus passed out free fish to 5000 hungry people?=


I believe that the miracle occured.



Do you agree or disagree with Bert's statement that Jesus would be more
likely to tell a hungry person to go and learn to fish, and perhaps
even offer free fishing lessons, than to alleviate the immediate
hunger?


I did not read where Bert said Jesus would just tell someone to go and
learn
to fish if they were hungry. Could you point that particular quote out
for
me Chuck?


Certainly:

"He wasn't a raging liberal. If he was then he have been giving out
fish
instead of teaching people to fish to feed themselves."


There is quite a bit of difference between what you claimed he said and what
he actually said. Nice try though.

Harry Krause
Nov 13, 9:57 pm show options

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: Harry Krause - Find messages by this
author
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 22:57:34 -0500
Local: Sun, Nov 13 2005 9:57 pm
Subject: OT Right Wing Christian Zealots
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Report Abuse

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- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

wrote:
*JimH* wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
*JimH* wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
*JimH* wrote:
"jps" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

Remind me again where I said this passage is about teaching a man to
fish.


If you can reply without name calling it would truly be a miracle.
You didn't state that. However, after Bert said, "If Jesus had been a
liberal he would have passed out fish instead of teaching people to
fish" and I cited the Bible story where Jesus passed out fish to 5,000
people (without asking any of them to learn to fish), you offered your
passage in rebuttal. That would seem, by extension, to be supporting
Bert's statement that Jesus didn't pass out food to hungry people and
instead told them to go learn to fish.
Nope. I simply asked jps how he would interpret the passage I quoted.
His
interpretation was spot on and provided support to my initial point.
Still confused, sorry.
Nope. I am not. It seems you are though, so I will say it again one more
time.


I simply asked jps how he would interpret the passage I quoted. His
interpretation was spot on and provided support to my initial point.


I don't have any idea whether you are a Christian or not, and it
doesn't really matter;
You are correct.


do you agree or disagree that according to the 14th Chapter of Matthew
Jesus passed out free fish to 5000 hungry people?=


I believe that the miracle occured.


Do you agree or disagree with Bert's statement that Jesus would be more
likely to tell a hungry person to go and learn to fish, and perhaps
even offer free fishing lessons, than to alleviate the immediate
hunger?


I did not read where Bert said Jesus would just tell someone to go and learn
to fish if they were hungry. Could you point that particular quote out for
me Chuck?


Certainly:


"He wasn't a raging liberal. If he was then he have been giving out
fish
instead of teaching people to fish to feed themselves."


A group I am loosely associated with helped feed hot chili and chicken
soup to over 200 homeless and people yesterday in Occidental Park, near
Pioneer Square. In about half an hour, I will be going back downtown to
work a breakfast in the basement of an old church, where something
around another 200 people will come in for a hot, sit-down meal.


And that is a great thing you are doing. When are you moving on to the next
step........ teaching these folks so they can get a job and provide food for
themselves.


We
used to do the Saturday feedings at another park just a few blocks
away, but frankly the "Christians" ran us out.
What does a *Christian* look like Chuck?


Like all sorts of things. You can't tell a Christian by looking.
However, some Christians are more easily identified by particular
behaviors.


One guy who was sort of
afraid, I guess, to set foot in the park filled with homeless people
would stand across the street and yell about hell-fire and damnation on
a bullhorn. He was bent on convincing these folks that the next bad
decision they made was going to send them straight to hell, where they
would burn and suffer for eternity. Another woman who couldn't sing to
save her life would stand in the park and bellow "Amazing Grace", "The
Old Rugged Cross", and etc- also through a bullhorn. I suspect the
folks with the bullhorns threatening eternal suffering in hell or
providing some contemporary suffering through really awful and
ridiculously loud singing would probably inspire people to go learn to
fish. :-)
Those folks are better described as lunatics Chuck. Yes, I suppost they
might be some sort of Christians, but their behavior puts them on the
lunatic fringe.


BTW: Why do you need to embelish the story? I doubt what you told was
anything close to accurate.


Not embellished a bit. And you don't have to look far to find bizarre
characters doing strange things in the name of religion. Are you
telling me you don't have "street preachers" in your little suburb in
Ohio? You probably don't- but next time you're off in an actual city
someplace and not hanging out in a well-policed shopping mall keep an
eye peeled for street preachers. I've never been to a big city where
there *aren't* street preachers. Those two bull horn shouters were on
hand for several Saturdays in a row. No embellishment required.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll be sure to bring that up the next time someone in our little area some sort of shopping center: it'll attract religious zealots, and that is reason enough to turn down any shopping center!

Seriously, there are some Jesus-freaks with powered megaphones nearly
every day at the park at Connecticut and K in downtown DC, and some of
these droolers sometimes wander across the street to the sidewalk of a
building in which we have a long-time client. I've managed toresist the
temptation to pour water on them from an upper floor.



Don't let the Bullhorns bother you Harry, it's been going on now for
better than 250 years.

You ought to appreciate them Harry, seeing you are such a defender of
free speech, that is unless that speech is something you seemingly
don't agree with. "Bullhorning" is one thing that actually helped make
the United States.

I

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/mic...lkin110299.asp

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Harry Krause
Nov 13, 9:57 pm show options

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: Harry Krause - Find messages by this
author
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 22:57:34 -0500
Local: Sun, Nov 13 2005 9:57 pm
Subject: OT Right Wing Christian Zealots
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Report Abuse

Note: The author of this message requested that it not be archived.
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I'll be sure to bring that up the next time someone in our little area
some sort of shopping center: it'll attract religious zealots, and that
is reason enough to turn down any shopping center!

Seriously, there are some Jesus-freaks with powered megaphones nearly
every day at the park at Connecticut and K in downtown DC, and some of
these droolers sometimes wander across the street to the sidewalk of a
building in which we have a long-time client. I've managed toresist the
temptation to pour water on them from an upper floor.



Don't let the Bullhorns bother you Harry, it's been going on now for
better than 250 years.

You ought to appreciate them Harry, seeing you are such a defender of
free speech, that is unless that speech is something you seemingly
don't agree with. "Bullhorning" is one thing that actually helped make
the United States.

I

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/mic...lkin110299.asp


What's all that extra crap on the top of all your responses here, fella?
Can't you edit it out?

I support free speech, but that doesn't mean some religious idiots ought
to be allowed to use powered megaphones in a small public park to disrupt
everyone within hearing distance. In nice weather, that little park used
to be frequented by office folks enjoying their lunch. Now, the nutcases
with the powered megaphones have driven just about everyone out of the
park at lunchtime. Hey, you want to get up on a soapbox, yak, and hand out
flyers on public property, go for it. But to force everyone to hear your
insanity because you are using powered megaphones to disturb everyone's
lunch? Nah.

Does your town have noise ordnances? Call the cops. My town's got a clause
in its rules which say that the use of powered amplification equipment in
public places requires a permit because it falls under the heading of
"parade" or some such thing. Obviously, the cops don't bother with school
football games whose announcer is audible 3 blocks away. But, they *do* show
up at public parks to provide "adjustments" to people who bring enormous
boom boxes and think the whole world wants to listen to their music.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Harry Krause
Nov 13, 9:57 pm show options

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: Harry Krause - Find messages by this
author
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 22:57:34 -0500
Local: Sun, Nov 13 2005 9:57 pm
Subject: OT Right Wing Christian Zealots
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Report Abuse

Note: The author of this message requested that it not be archived.
This message will be removed from Groups in 6 days (Nov 20, 9:57 pm).

I'll be sure to bring that up the next time someone in our little area
some sort of shopping center: it'll attract religious zealots, and
that is reason enough to turn down any shopping center!
Seriously, there are some Jesus-freaks with powered megaphones nearly
every day at the park at Connecticut and K in downtown DC, and some of
these droolers sometimes wander across the street to the sidewalk of a
building in which we have a long-time client. I've managed toresist the
temptation to pour water on them from an upper floor.



Don't let the Bullhorns bother you Harry, it's been going on now for
better than 250 years.

You ought to appreciate them Harry, seeing you are such a defender of
free speech, that is unless that speech is something you seemingly
don't agree with. "Bullhorning" is one thing that actually helped make
the United States.

I

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/mic...lkin110299.asp

What's all that extra crap on the top of all your responses here, fella?
Can't you edit it out?

I support free speech, but that doesn't mean some religious idiots ought
to be allowed to use powered megaphones in a small public park to
disrupt everyone within hearing distance. In nice weather, that little
park used to be frequented by office folks enjoying their lunch. Now,
the nutcases with the powered megaphones have driven just about everyone
out of the park at lunchtime. Hey, you want to get up on a soapbox, yak,
and hand out flyers on public property, go for it. But to force everyone
to hear your insanity because you are using powered megaphones to
disturb everyone's lunch? Nah.

Does your town have noise ordnances? Call the cops. My town's got a
clause in its rules which say that the use of powered amplification
equipment in public places requires a permit because it falls under the
heading of "parade" or some such thing. Obviously, the cops don't bother
with school football games whose announcer is audible 3 blocks away. But,
they *do* show up at public parks to provide "adjustments" to people who
bring enormous boom boxes and think the whole world wants to listen to
their music.

I dunno what the ordnance is in DC regarding noise. You really have to be
obnoxious in DC to get arrested for any kind of free speech or
demonstration behavior, though.

I'm sure *some* cops would approach them and ask them to turn it down, or
off. It's at least worth asking a cop if such an ordinance exists. Actually,
YOU could ask them to turn it down. It might actually work if they're real
Kristians.