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#1
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WTB Kayak plans
k wrote:
Hi all, Anyone have any full size "used" Kayak plans they want to sell? I am thinking about building a 16 footer. The Ocean One plans look very good. A canvas Kayak would be OK. Thanks, -k It's illegal to sell "used" kayak plans. When you purchase plans, you purchase the right to build one boat with them. Designers have a right to expect to be paid for their expertise. They have to make a living, too. If you're interested, I have a set of unused plans for a Merganser 17 that I'll sell for $70 (they're $85 direct from Shearwater). You can see the details at: http://www.shearwater-boats.com/ |
#2
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Kayak plans
Please excuse my Faux pas. If that is the system I will accept it.
Let me ask this. I think I want to build a canvas kayak. I have borowed two books from the library. The New Kayak Shop and Wood and Canvas kayaks. Both look to be excellent books. The only thing I am not comfortable with is the effort it is going to take to enlarge the plans. It looks like a chore in itself. Does anyone have suggestions to make this process a little easier? I am not exactly new to woodworking or plan making, I am looking for something to expedite the process. Any suggestions would be appreciated. One concern I am having is I really don't want to get too much wrapped up in plans I may never use. (i do not always finish what i start). I like the look of the Kayaks on this page http://www.guillemotkayaks.com/Build...vsPlywood.jpeg Obviously these are from Guillemot Kayaks. If I cannot get it done I may just buy an old town kayak from Cabelas. I looked at a few of another brand in the $250-$350 range in a different sporting goods store (not Cabelas) and they do not look like much. That is why I am looking into plans. Thanks, -k Brian Nystrom wrote: k wrote: Hi all, Anyone have any full size "used" Kayak plans they want to sell? I am thinking about building a 16 footer. The Ocean One plans look very good. A canvas Kayak would be OK. Thanks, -k It's illegal to sell "used" kayak plans. When you purchase plans, you purchase the right to build one boat with them. Designers have a right to expect to be paid for their expertise. They have to make a living, too. If you're interested, I have a set of unused plans for a Merganser 17 that I'll sell for $70 (they're $85 direct from Shearwater). You can see the details at: http://www.shearwater-boats.com/ |
#3
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Kayak plans
k wrote:
Please excuse my Faux pas. If that is the system I will accept it. Let me ask this. I think I want to build a canvas kayak. I have borowed two books from the library. The New Kayak Shop and Wood and Canvas kayaks. Both look to be excellent books. The only thing I am not comfortable with is the effort it is going to take to enlarge the plans. It looks like a chore in itself. Does anyone have suggestions to make this process a little easier? I am not exactly new to woodworking or plan making, I am looking for something to expedite the process. Any suggestions would be appreciated. One concern I am having is I really don't want to get too much wrapped up in plans I may never use. (i do not always finish what i start). I like the look of the Kayaks on this page http://www.guillemotkayaks.com/Build...vsPlywood.jpeg Obviously these are from Guillemot Kayaks. If I cannot get it done I may just buy an old town kayak from Cabelas. I looked at a few of another brand in the $250-$350 range in a different sporting goods store (not Cabelas) and they do not look like much. That is why I am looking into plans. Thanks, -k I think you need to look into kayaks a bit more. There is no comparison between a low-end molded kayak and the boats on Nick's site. If you're interesting is building something similar, there are several good books on building skin-on-frame boats, but it's not something you're going to be able to build in a weekend. You can find resources for building SOF kayaks at: http://www.qajaqusa.org Morris', Cunningham's and Starr's books are all excellent and readily available. |
#4
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WTB Kayak plans
In article 3FFcf.7336$941.840@trndny02,
Brian Nystrom wrote: It's illegal to sell "used" kayak plans. When you purchase plans, you purchase the right to build one boat with them. Designers have a right to expect to be paid for their expertise. They have to make a living, too. Do you have a citation for this law? I'd have imagined that like any other copyrighted material that you could resell it to your heart's content. Mike Beede |
#5
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WTB Kayak plans
Mike Beede wrote:
In article 3FFcf.7336$941.840@trndny02, Brian Nystrom wrote: It's illegal to sell "used" kayak plans. When you purchase plans, you purchase the right to build one boat with them. Designers have a right to expect to be paid for their expertise. They have to make a living, too. Do you have a citation for this law? I'd have imagined that like any other copyrighted material that you could resell it to your heart's content. Then you apparently have no idea what a "copyright" means. What do you think all the lawsuits over distributing music over the internet and pirating software are about? Do you think you can just copy a book or video and sell it? Try that sometime and see how long it is before you receive a "cease and desist" order and/or the authorities come knocking on your door. A copyright gives the owner exclusive rights to sell their intellectual property. How they sell it an what rights the purchaser has is up to the copyright holder. As it applies to kayak designs, the majority clearly state that purchasing their plans gives you the right to build one boat using them. Building more requires you to pay a licensing fee for each one. However, some designers allow their customers to build multiple boats and there are some plans that are distributed freely, In such cases it's clearly stated as such. |
#6
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NotWTB Kayak plans
Is there a way I can delete this post? It was not my intent to cause a
problem. I have two threads going. I really would like to kill this thread. Brian Nystrom wrote: Mike Beede wrote: In article 3FFcf.7336$941.840@trndny02, Brian Nystrom wrote: It's illegal to sell "used" kayak plans. When you purchase plans, you purchase the right to build one boat with them. Designers have a right to expect to be paid for their expertise. They have to make a living, too. Do you have a citation for this law? I'd have imagined that like any other copyrighted material that you could resell it to your heart's content. Then you apparently have no idea what a "copyright" means. What do you think all the lawsuits over distributing music over the internet and pirating software are about? Do you think you can just copy a book or video and sell it? Try that sometime and see how long it is before you receive a "cease and desist" order and/or the authorities come knocking on your door. A copyright gives the owner exclusive rights to sell their intellectual property. How they sell it an what rights the purchaser has is up to the copyright holder. As it applies to kayak designs, the majority clearly state that purchasing their plans gives you the right to build one boat using them. Building more requires you to pay a licensing fee for each one. However, some designers allow their customers to build multiple boats and there are some plans that are distributed freely, In such cases it's clearly stated as such. |
#7
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NotWTB Kayak plans
k wrote:
Is there a way I can delete this post? It was not my intent to cause a problem. I have two threads going. I really would like to kill this thread. k, you have nothing to be embarrassed about. Your post was an opportunity for people to learn something about the $$ side of boat design. It'll die on its own soon. Steve Brian Nystrom wrote: Mike Beede wrote: In article 3FFcf.7336$941.840@trndny02, Brian Nystrom wrote: It's illegal to sell "used" kayak plans. When you purchase plans, you purchase the right to build one boat with them. Designers have a right to expect to be paid for their expertise. They have to make a living, too. Do you have a citation for this law? I'd have imagined that like any other copyrighted material that you could resell it to your heart's content. Then you apparently have no idea what a "copyright" means. What do you think all the lawsuits over distributing music over the internet and pirating software are about? Do you think you can just copy a book or video and sell it? Try that sometime and see how long it is before you receive a "cease and desist" order and/or the authorities come knocking on your door. A copyright gives the owner exclusive rights to sell their intellectual property. How they sell it an what rights the purchaser has is up to the copyright holder. As it applies to kayak designs, the majority clearly state that purchasing their plans gives you the right to build one boat using them. Building more requires you to pay a licensing fee for each one. However, some designers allow their customers to build multiple boats and there are some plans that are distributed freely, In such cases it's clearly stated as such. -- Steve Cramer Athens, GA |
#8
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NotWTB Kayak plans
Steve Cramer wrote:
k wrote: Is there a way I can delete this post? It was not my intent to cause a problem. I have two threads going. I really would like to kill this thread. Exactly. It was a legitimate question. If you didn't know it wasn't legal, you didn't know. No big deal. |
#9
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WTB Kayak plans
In article oTndf.5414$GB1.4443@trndny06,
Brian Nystrom wrote: Mike Beede wrote: In article 3FFcf.7336$941.840@trndny02, Brian Nystrom wrote: It's illegal to sell "used" kayak plans. When you purchase plans, you purchase the right to build one boat with them. Designers have a right to expect to be paid for their expertise. They have to make a living, too. Do you have a citation for this law? I'd have imagined that like any other copyrighted material that you could resell it to your heart's content. Then you apparently have no idea what a "copyright" means. What do you think all the lawsuits over distributing music over the internet and pirating software are about? Do you think you can just copy a book or video and sell it? I assume we're talking about the United States here. I don't know what the law is elsewhere. In the U.S., if I buy a copyrighted work, I have the absolute right to sell it to anyone I like. I didn't see you say anything about selling copies of plans. You said "it's illegal to sell `used' kayak plans." Perhaps you took my "to your heart's content" to mean copying. That wasn't my intent. I'd still like a citation on what law prevents the sale of used kayak plans. Mike Beede |
#10
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WTB Kayak plans
Mike Beede wrote:
In article oTndf.5414$GB1.4443@trndny06, Brian Nystrom wrote: Mike Beede wrote: Brian Nystrom wrote: It's illegal to sell "used" kayak plans. When you purchase plans, you purchase the right to build one boat with them. Designers have a right to expect to be paid for their expertise. They have to make a living, too. Do you have a citation for this law? I'd have imagined that like any other copyrighted material that you could resell it to your heart's content. Then you apparently have no idea what a "copyright" means. What do you think all the lawsuits over distributing music over the internet and pirating software are about? Do you think you can just copy a book or video and sell it? I assume we're talking about the United States here. I don't know what the law is elsewhere. In the U.S., if I buy a copyrighted work, I have the absolute right to sell it to anyone I like. I didn't see you say anything about selling copies of plans. You said "it's illegal to sell `used' kayak plans." Perhaps you took my "to your heart's content" to mean copying. That wasn't my intent. I'd still like a citation on what law prevents the sale of used kayak plans. It's not criminal law, it's contract. When you buy the plans, you accept a licensing agreement for a specific number of boats, usually one. You may also have to explicitly agree not to sell the plans. Here's how Nick Schade puts it: http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/Buil...e.html#license If you buy a copy of M$-Word, load it on your computer, then sell the install disk, Microsoft could legitimately prosecute you for piracy. They mostly don't, because you are one user among billions. Kayak designers sell in the 10's to 100's. Read the End User License Agreement you agreed to sometime. Of course, some people will choose to rip off designers by buying plans, building boats, and then selling the plans. Often the designer never knows about it. But the river and ocean gods do, and they pay attention. -- Steve Cramer Athens, GA |
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