"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Dan J.S. wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...
wrote in message
ps.com...
Sammy wrote:
Wow, I thought social unrest was impossible under democratic
socialism?

Nah. It's just not moved to a designated "protest zone" where the
high
rollin' elite and right wing political candidates don't have to see
it.

Don't forget what that old communist, Thomas Jefferson, preached.
Every
so often it is healthy for the people to rise up, take control of,
and
reform the government. We may be seeing the beginnings of that
process
in France, and that should make all the "We-hate-France-because-the
French-didn't-fall-for-the-WMD-propaganda-and-join-the-invasion-of-Iraq"
crowd extremely happy.

It worked really well when the Arabs burned down half of Europe in the
1600s... ****ing idiot!

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

I'm ready for a history lesson. Half of Europe? Which half?


read about Grand Vizier Merzifonlu Kara Mustafa Pasha




Read about "Arabs." The Ottomans were not Arabs.

Muslims, Arabs.

Todays Muslims associate themselves with Islam. These are the people
burning down France. I will call them Islamists now. Better?


Black people here burned down ghettos back in the 60s. Probably the majority
were Baptists or Catholics. But, they weren't rioting for religious reasons.
What makes you think religion is the issue in France at the moment? Could it
be skin color?

Just to make sure I'm not accused of misquoting you, you are saying that
the Turks (whose troops were not all Muslim, BTW... look up "Janissaries")
beseiging Vienna... and failing... equals "burning down half of Europe"?

You may want to check a map.


Dan J.S. wrote:
I don't need to check a map of a place that I lived at for a long time.

Oh, I get it... you've actually been there, so that makes it much more
important and now constitutes "half of Europe."

Oddly enough, I've been there too. Funny how it never seemed like "half
of Europe" to me.

... They
did practice Islam.

Who? The Turks? Sure. The Janissaries? Some converted to Islam, but many
did not.

... And most of Europe was involved.

Let's see, Poland & Austria and some small principalities in what is now
Germany... that's "most" of Europe?


... Your American education
(or lack of) is showing.

Yeah, that must be it.

Did you ask a Turk if he considers himself an Arab yet? And I hate to
ask you again to do something you've already claimed you don't need to
do, but look at a map of Europe and outline all the area which the
Ottomans occupied... or marched over. It's a large area, but it's not
half and certainly a long darn way from "most" of Europe.

DSK

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
news

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Dan J.S. wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...
wrote in message
ps.com...
Sammy wrote:
Wow, I thought social unrest was impossible under democratic
socialism?

Nah. It's just not moved to a designated "protest zone" where the
high
rollin' elite and right wing political candidates don't have to see
it.

Don't forget what that old communist, Thomas Jefferson, preached.
Every
so often it is healthy for the people to rise up, take control of,
and
reform the government. We may be seeing the beginnings of that
process
in France, and that should make all the "We-hate-France-because-the
French-didn't-fall-for-the-WMD-propaganda-and-join-the-invasion-of-Iraq"
crowd extremely happy.

It worked really well when the Arabs burned down half of Europe in
the 1600s... ****ing idiot!

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

I'm ready for a history lesson. Half of Europe? Which half?


read about Grand Vizier Merzifonlu Kara Mustafa Pasha




Read about "Arabs." The Ottomans were not Arabs.

Muslims, Arabs.

Todays Muslims associate themselves with Islam. These are the people
burning down France. I will call them Islamists now. Better?


Black people here burned down ghettos back in the 60s. Probably the
majority were Baptists or Catholics. But, they weren't rioting for
religious reasons. What makes you think religion is the issue in France at
the moment? Could it be skin color?


Islamists are creating a very volatile environment to break down the western
way of living. Clerics are behind most of these attacks. Yes, there are some
that want to stop them, but notice, even those that want to help are using
their help as future leverage.

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
news

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Dan J.S. wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...
wrote in message
ps.com...
Sammy wrote:
Wow, I thought social unrest was impossible under democratic
socialism?

Nah. It's just not moved to a designated "protest zone" where the
high
rollin' elite and right wing political candidates don't have to see
it.

Don't forget what that old communist, Thomas Jefferson, preached.
Every
so often it is healthy for the people to rise up, take control of,
and
reform the government. We may be seeing the beginnings of that
process
in France, and that should make all the "We-hate-France-because-the
French-didn't-fall-for-the-WMD-propaganda-and-join-the-invasion-of-Iraq"
crowd extremely happy.

It worked really well when the Arabs burned down half of Europe in
the 1600s... ****ing idiot!

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

I'm ready for a history lesson. Half of Europe? Which half?


read about Grand Vizier Merzifonlu Kara Mustafa Pasha




Read about "Arabs." The Ottomans were not Arabs.

Muslims, Arabs.

Todays Muslims associate themselves with Islam. These are the people
burning down France. I will call them Islamists now. Better?


Black people here burned down ghettos back in the 60s. Probably the
majority were Baptists or Catholics. But, they weren't rioting for
religious reasons. What makes you think religion is the issue in France
at the moment? Could it be skin color?


Islamists are creating a very volatile environment to break down the
western way of living. Clerics are behind most of these attacks. Yes,
there are some that want to stop them, but notice, even those that want to
help are using their help as future leverage.


Militant clerics urged blacks on in this country, while others, like Martin
Luther King did the opposite. This will always be the case with people who
look to their religious leaders for guidance. It even worked for white
extremists here, who listened to the Berrigans.

But, never mind. Feel free to give yourself a belly ache about this.

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ps.com...

Sammy wrote:
Wow, I thought social unrest was impossible under democratic socialism?


Nah. It's just not moved to a designated "protest zone" where the high
rollin' elite and right wing political candidates don't have to see it.

Don't forget what that old communist, Thomas Jefferson, preached. Every
so often it is healthy for the people to rise up, take control of, and
reform the government. We may be seeing the beginnings of that process
in France, and that should make all the "We-hate-France-because-the
French-didn't-fall-for-the-WMD-propaganda-and-join-the-invasion-of-Iraq"
crowd extremely happy.


It worked really well when the Arabs burned down half of Europe in the
1600s... ****ing idiot!

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.


Actually Chuck may be right. France is an economic disaster. Almost all
the public union strikes are over the government trying to add a couple of
years more working time before the people retire. In something like 10-15
years, there will be only 2 workers for every retired worker. Think that
will be sustainable? France just happens to be the worst, but lots of
European countries are in the same boat. Naples has a 37% unemployment.
Most likely the reason it is one of the most dangerous cities in Italy
(besides the taxi drivers).


Yep, France's economy is in the crapper and social spending is out of
control.

But those facts are not factors of the riots. Otherwise the rioters would
not be made up only of young muslim men.

" *JimH*" wrote in message
...

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ps.com...

Sammy wrote:
Wow, I thought social unrest was impossible under democratic
socialism?


Nah. It's just not moved to a designated "protest zone" where the high
rollin' elite and right wing political candidates don't have to see
it.

Don't forget what that old communist, Thomas Jefferson, preached.
Every
so often it is healthy for the people to rise up, take control of, and
reform the government. We may be seeing the beginnings of that process
in France, and that should make all the "We-hate-France-because-the

French-didn't-fall-for-the-WMD-propaganda-and-join-the-invasion-of-Iraq"
crowd extremely happy.


It worked really well when the Arabs burned down half of Europe in the
1600s... ****ing idiot!

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.


Actually Chuck may be right. France is an economic disaster. Almost
all
the public union strikes are over the government trying to add a couple
of
years more working time before the people retire. In something like
10-15
years, there will be only 2 workers for every retired worker. Think
that
will be sustainable? France just happens to be the worst, but lots of
European countries are in the same boat. Naples has a 37% unemployment.
Most likely the reason it is one of the most dangerous cities in Italy
(besides the taxi drivers).


Yep, France's economy is in the crapper and social spending is out of
control.

Actually it is to some degree.....economics plays a major role in
it.......and the fact that muslims tend to not assimilate into the culture
where they live means they end up religated to the lower end of the economic
scale.


But those facts are not factors of the riots. Otherwise the rioters would
not be made up only of young muslim men.

" *JimH*" wrote in message
...

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ps.com...

Sammy wrote:
Wow, I thought social unrest was impossible under democratic
socialism?


Nah. It's just not moved to a designated "protest zone" where the high
rollin' elite and right wing political candidates don't have to see it.

Don't forget what that old communist, Thomas Jefferson, preached. Every
so often it is healthy for the people to rise up, take control of, and
reform the government. We may be seeing the beginnings of that process
in France, and that should make all the "We-hate-France-because-the
French-didn't-fall-for-the-WMD-propaganda-and-join-the-invasion-of-Iraq"
crowd extremely happy.


It worked really well when the Arabs burned down half of Europe in the
1600s... ****ing idiot!

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.


Actually Chuck may be right. France is an economic disaster. Almost all
the public union strikes are over the government trying to add a couple
of years more working time before the people retire. In something like
10-15 years, there will be only 2 workers for every retired worker.
Think that will be sustainable? France just happens to be the worst, but
lots of European countries are in the same boat. Naples has a 37%
unemployment. Most likely the reason it is one of the most dangerous
cities in Italy (besides the taxi drivers).


Yep, France's economy is in the crapper and social spending is out of
control.

But those facts are not factors of the riots. Otherwise the rioters would
not be made up only of young muslim men.


Take a look at photos of riots in the Middle East. Women don't often
participate in them. Of course, you knew that, you know why, but you just
forgot.

On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 16:45:44 -0500, P Fritz wrote:


Actually it is to some degree.....economics plays a major role in
it.......and the fact that muslims tend to not assimilate into the culture
where they live means they end up religated to the lower end of the
economic scale.

Huh? Islam is a religion. If a Muslim remains true to his faith, are you
saying he doesn't assimilate? How about a Baptist?

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
news

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Dan J.S. wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...
wrote in message
ps.com...
Sammy wrote:
Wow, I thought social unrest was impossible under democratic
socialism?

Nah. It's just not moved to a designated "protest zone" where the
high
rollin' elite and right wing political candidates don't have to see
it.

Don't forget what that old communist, Thomas Jefferson, preached.
Every
so often it is healthy for the people to rise up, take control of,
and
reform the government. We may be seeing the beginnings of that
process
in France, and that should make all the "We-hate-France-because-the
French-didn't-fall-for-the-WMD-propaganda-and-join-the-invasion-of-Iraq"
crowd extremely happy.

It worked really well when the Arabs burned down half of Europe in
the 1600s... ****ing idiot!

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

I'm ready for a history lesson. Half of Europe? Which half?


read about Grand Vizier Merzifonlu Kara Mustafa Pasha




Read about "Arabs." The Ottomans were not Arabs.

Muslims, Arabs.

Todays Muslims associate themselves with Islam. These are the people
burning down France. I will call them Islamists now. Better?


Black people here burned down ghettos back in the 60s. Probably the
majority were Baptists or Catholics. But, they weren't rioting for
religious reasons. What makes you think religion is the issue in France at
the moment? Could it be skin color?

It could be because they're running around yelling "this is war" and
"jihad".

On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 21:13:56 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Dan J.S. wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...
wrote in message
ps.com...
Sammy wrote:
Wow, I thought social unrest was impossible under democratic
socialism?

Nah. It's just not moved to a designated "protest zone" where the
high
rollin' elite and right wing political candidates don't have to see
it.

Don't forget what that old communist, Thomas Jefferson, preached.
Every
so often it is healthy for the people to rise up, take control of,
and
reform the government. We may be seeing the beginnings of that
process
in France, and that should make all the "We-hate-France-because-the
French-didn't-fall-for-the-WMD-propaganda-and-join-the-invasion-of-Iraq"
crowd extremely happy.

It worked really well when the Arabs burned down half of Europe in the
1600s... ****ing idiot!

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

I'm ready for a history lesson. Half of Europe? Which half?


read about Grand Vizier Merzifonlu Kara Mustafa Pasha




Read about "Arabs." The Ottomans were not Arabs.

Muslims, Arabs.

Todays Muslims associate themselves with Islam. These are the people
burning down France. I will call them Islamists now. Better?


Black people here burned down ghettos back in the 60s. Probably the majority
were Baptists or Catholics. But, they weren't rioting for religious reasons.
What makes you think religion is the issue in France at the moment? Could it
be skin color?


According to Len, the kids are being motivated in their religious schools. Or,
did I read that wrongly?
--
John H

"It's *not* a baby kicking, bride of mine, it's just a fetus!"

Hypocrital Liberal