"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...
wrote in message
ps.com...
Sammy wrote:
Wow, I thought social unrest was impossible under democratic
socialism?

Nah. It's just not moved to a designated "protest zone" where the high
rollin' elite and right wing political candidates don't have to see it.

Don't forget what that old communist, Thomas Jefferson, preached. Every
so often it is healthy for the people to rise up, take control of, and
reform the government. We may be seeing the beginnings of that process
in France, and that should make all the "We-hate-France-because-the
French-didn't-fall-for-the-WMD-propaganda-and-join-the-invasion-of-Iraq"
crowd extremely happy.

It worked really well when the Arabs burned down half of Europe in the
1600s... ****ing idiot!

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.


I'm ready for a history lesson. Half of Europe? Which half?

Maybe he means the Moslem near-conquest of Europe in the 7th Century that
was stopped by the Franks? He surely wasn't referring to the Ottoman
Empire, because those folks were not Arabs. Perhaps he studied a parallel
universe history?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kara_Mustafa

Arab:

a.. A member of a Semitic people inhabiting Arabia, whose language and
Islamic religion spread widely throughout the Middle East and northern
Africa from the seventh century.
a.. A member of an Arabic-speaking people


Mustafa was practicing Islam. Turks were considered Arabs. They followed the
sharia which is the canonical muslim law.

Just to make sure I'm not accused of misquoting you, you are saying that
the Turks (whose troops were not all Muslim, BTW... look up
"Janissaries") beseiging Vienna... and failing... equals "burning down
half of Europe"?

You may want to check a map.

And as Doug Kanter suggested, you may want to take a gander at some
Spanish history.

DSK


Dan J.S. wrote:
His greatest success came on September 12, 1683 as victor at the Battle of
Vienna, with Polish, Austrian and German troops, once more against the Turks
under Kara Mustafa. The pope and other foreign dignitaries then hailed
Sobieski as the "Savior of Vienna and Western European civilization." In a
letter to his wife he wrote, ...All the common people kissed my hands, my
feet, my clothes; others only touched me, saying: Ach, let us kiss so
valiant a hand!".



Turning point of when the Turks backed off.

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ps.com...

Sammy wrote:
Wow, I thought social unrest was impossible under democratic
socialism?


Nah. It's just not moved to a designated "protest zone" where the high
rollin' elite and right wing political candidates don't have to see it.

Don't forget what that old communist, Thomas Jefferson, preached. Every
so often it is healthy for the people to rise up, take control of, and
reform the government. We may be seeing the beginnings of that process
in France, and that should make all the "We-hate-France-because-the
French-didn't-fall-for-the-WMD-propaganda-and-join-the-invasion-of-Iraq"
crowd extremely happy.


It worked really well when the Arabs burned down half of Europe in the
1600s... ****ing idiot!

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.


I'm ready for a history lesson. Half of Europe? Which half?


read about Grand Vizier Merzifonlu Kara Mustafa Pasha




Done. Now what?

Dan J.S. wrote:
Mustafa was practicing Islam.

Correct

... Turks were considered Arabs.

Ahem! I suggest you try telling a Turk that. If you're lucky, he won't
reply that he he considers you to be Greek.


... They followed the
sharia which is the canonical muslim law.

Somewhat correct, but the gov't which the Ottomans built up over the
centuries was quite secular... more so than most in Europe at the
time... and that heritage is one reason probably why Turkey is one of
the most pro-West and secular countries in the Middle East today.

DSK

Well France stinks - maybe you guys dont know - but a few EU countries have
been supporting our allied USA in Irak and all other places - Denmark where
i live is one of them, our closest allied and partner is USA - it is
interesting that our unimployment rate is less than 5% - but then again we
dont have a socialistic goverment - they where replaced by a Liberal one 5
year ago - and still have absolute majority.
"Bill McKee" skrev i en meddelelse
ink.net...

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ps.com...

Sammy wrote:
Wow, I thought social unrest was impossible under democratic socialism?


Nah. It's just not moved to a designated "protest zone" where the high
rollin' elite and right wing political candidates don't have to see it.

Don't forget what that old communist, Thomas Jefferson, preached. Every
so often it is healthy for the people to rise up, take control of, and
reform the government. We may be seeing the beginnings of that process
in France, and that should make all the "We-hate-France-because-the
French-didn't-fall-for-the-WMD-propaganda-and-join-the-invasion-of-Iraq"
crowd extremely happy.


It worked really well when the Arabs burned down half of Europe in the
1600s... ****ing idiot!

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.


Actually Chuck may be right. France is an economic disaster. Almost all
the public union strikes are over the government trying to add a couple of
years more working time before the people retire. In something like 10-15
years, there will be only 2 workers for every retired worker. Think that
will be sustainable? France just happens to be the worst, but lots of
European countries are in the same boat. Naples has a 37% unemployment.
Most likely the reason it is one of the most dangerous cities in Italy
(besides the taxi drivers).

Was not painting all Europe with the same brush.

"ena" wrote in message
...
Well France stinks - maybe you guys dont know - but a few EU countries
have been supporting our allied USA in Irak and all other places - Denmark
where i live is one of them, our closest allied and partner is USA - it is
interesting that our unimployment rate is less than 5% - but then again we
dont have a socialistic goverment - they where replaced by a Liberal one 5
year ago - and still have absolute majority.
"Bill McKee" skrev i en meddelelse
ink.net...

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ps.com...

Sammy wrote:
Wow, I thought social unrest was impossible under democratic
socialism?


Nah. It's just not moved to a designated "protest zone" where the high
rollin' elite and right wing political candidates don't have to see it.

Don't forget what that old communist, Thomas Jefferson, preached. Every
so often it is healthy for the people to rise up, take control of, and
reform the government. We may be seeing the beginnings of that process
in France, and that should make all the "We-hate-France-because-the
French-didn't-fall-for-the-WMD-propaganda-and-join-the-invasion-of-Iraq"
crowd extremely happy.


It worked really well when the Arabs burned down half of Europe in the
1600s... ****ing idiot!

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.


Actually Chuck may be right. France is an economic disaster. Almost all
the public union strikes are over the government trying to add a couple
of years more working time before the people retire. In something like
10-15 years, there will be only 2 workers for every retired worker.
Think that will be sustainable? France just happens to be the worst, but
lots of European countries are in the same boat. Naples has a 37%
unemployment. Most likely the reason it is one of the most dangerous
cities in Italy (besides the taxi drivers).

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Just to make sure I'm not accused of misquoting you, you are saying that
the Turks (whose troops were not all Muslim, BTW... look up "Janissaries")
beseiging Vienna... and failing... equals "burning down half of Europe"?

You may want to check a map.

I don't need to check a map of a place that I lived at for a long time. They
did practice Islam. And most of Europe was involved. Your American education
(or lack of) is showing.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Dan J.S. wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...
wrote in message
ps.com...
Sammy wrote:
Wow, I thought social unrest was impossible under democratic
socialism?

Nah. It's just not moved to a designated "protest zone" where the high
rollin' elite and right wing political candidates don't have to see
it.

Don't forget what that old communist, Thomas Jefferson, preached.
Every
so often it is healthy for the people to rise up, take control of, and
reform the government. We may be seeing the beginnings of that process
in France, and that should make all the "We-hate-France-because-the
French-didn't-fall-for-the-WMD-propaganda-and-join-the-invasion-of-Iraq"
crowd extremely happy.

It worked really well when the Arabs burned down half of Europe in the
1600s... ****ing idiot!

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

I'm ready for a history lesson. Half of Europe? Which half?


read about Grand Vizier Merzifonlu Kara Mustafa Pasha




Read about "Arabs." The Ottomans were not Arabs.

Muslims, Arabs.

Todays Muslims associate themselves with Islam. These are the people burning
down France. I will call them Islamists now. Better?

"ena" wrote in message
...
Well France stinks - maybe you guys dont know - but a few EU countries
have been supporting our allied USA in Irak and all other places - Denmark
where i live is one of them, our closest allied and partner is USA - it is
interesting that our unimployment rate is less than 5% - but then again we
dont have a socialistic goverment - they where replaced by a Liberal one 5
year ago - and still have absolute majority.

And I want to thank you for your countries support! I was born in Poland
myself, and we also support the U.S. and are proud of it.

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Just to make sure I'm not accused of misquoting you, you are saying that
the Turks (whose troops were not all Muslim, BTW... look up
"Janissaries") beseiging Vienna... and failing... equals "burning down
half of Europe"?

You may want to check a map.

I don't need to check a map of a place that I lived at for a long time.
They did practice Islam. And most of Europe was involved. Your American
education (or lack of) is showing.


Most of Europe? France, Germany, Poland, Italy, etc etc.... ???