BoatBanter.com - European Jihad?

BoatBanter.com (https://www.boatbanter.com/)

- General (https://www.boatbanter.com/general/)

- - European Jihad? (https://www.boatbanter.com/general/62505-re-european-jihad.html)

Len,
Europe has a long history of taking land away from the original
inhabitants, both in Europe and abroad.

"Len" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 14:22:17 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

It is immoral to sit safe in your house while you urge that the sons and
daughters of other families be sent off to foreign lands to fight and
die in a war based on a president's incompetency, stupidity, and deceit.

Perhaps, due to the way the present America was taken by force from
the original inhabitants, war is in the cultural heritage of the us
somewhat seen as a legitimate and effective means to an end, much more
than in europe. Our cultural heritage is older, with much more
experience in the field of losing and of what happens if a country is
defeated but also humiliated (ww1, Germany). All european countries
have had their serious defeats and the history books tell all about
it. In europe I grew up (10 years after ww2) with a notion of "war is
hell. It must be prevented as much as possible".

But I respect that sometimes not acting is even worse than acting.
When the acting is based on lies, all legitemacy is lost up front.
Retreat is another matter, you will have to take into account what
situation will arise after that. After all you're responsible as a
world-leading nation that has started the war unilaterally.

Regards, Len.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"Len" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 15:49:26 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

Wake up, Europe, you've a war on your hands
What? where? Oh, now you mention it... Tought it were just some boys
having a bit of fun...

Well, we always turn to the US when it's to do with fighting, don't
we? So, what do you suggest...,
Make firearms more accessible to the people?
Say it's Al Qaeda and invade Pakistan?
Call 'm illegal warriors, open up some camp on an island and put all
these guys in there for years without a trial?
I like the camp on an island idea. But a better idea would be to get
rid of the governments in the Middle East which support or condone
madrassas that teach young Muslims to hate Israel and the West.

We can't even stabilize a country we've been occupying for three years
with 150,000 troops, and you want us to do the same with a dozen other
countries?

The other countries are the ones working to destabilize the one we're
already fighting in. Cut off the head and the body will wither away and
die.

You're in a dream world, and obviously have no idea of what the word
"destabilize" means. Bush marched into that country without a plan, and
his crooked vice president said we'd be met with garlands of flowers.
What is going on in Iraq right now is the fault of the United States and
its incompetent, arrogant, deceitful President and his henchmen.

Some family member who has lost a son, daughter, brother, sister, father
or mother ought to show up at your office and punch you in the nose for
wanting to send others where you haven't the balls to go. No wonder you
post "anonymously."

You'd be more likely to receive the punch in the nose. There are a lot
fewer
Cindy Sheehans than parents who support what their son/daughter was fighting
for.

I write and edit a pension magazine for a labor union's pension fund. Last
week, the fund manager forwarded on a "FYI" basis a handful of letters
from members of families with loved ones in Iraq. The letters asked the
fund to stop the subscriptions, because the recipients had been killed in
Iraq.

A handful? How many? 1? 2?

May the children of all the warmongers here suffer the same horrific fate.

You're an asshole.

On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 16:39:35 -0500, John H.
wrote:

What's the Netherlands doing about the problems they're having with Muslims,
Len? My friend in Stolwyjk seems to think there *is* a developing problem over
there, and that taxes can be raised only so far to keep giving money to folks
who aren't earning it.

Locally:

1) The problem in our country comes from a very small minority of
muslim-youngsters that later on are being influenced by foreign
jihadist-recruters.

2) The vast majority are muslims that want a normal life. These people
don't live up to the "pure" islam taken literally. Seems everyone is
forgetting this large group.

3) These youngsters have trouble finding jobs cause economy is at a
baisse over here. So there are only few employers and these are able
to be picky.

This attitude is one of the causes. It is over here and it is in
France and in Germany and in.... The governments can't throw a switch
here. It's up to us, the society itself to give the boys and sometimes
girls a fair chance.

Also the right wing attitude of "all muslims are extremists" is to be
prevented/altered. In your eyes maybe a soft "therapy" but in the long
run an essential one.

Legislation is being adapted so the intention to use violence in the
future can be dealt with properly.

I see where your friend is coming from. He shouldn't be afraid of a
tax-raise. Present government is increasing net income for the well to
do and also increases costs like healthcosts for the poor and elderly.
But spending taxpayers money to keep these people "working" is no
solution, never is imo. And this is not what is planned. It's the
expectability to get a real job that is to be improved. Ethnical
discrimination *is* a fact amongst employers. In a sense it may be
understandable but is causes immense trouble in the long run.

Internationally:

We're dependant of the world-leading nation: the us of a and the way
it assesses the global situation, the wisdom and vision with which it
applies measures. We suffer more from ethnic troubles when the us
unintentionally feed the moral conviction of radical muslims by
occupying muslim countries for the wrong reasons.
The nuance between "lie" and "wrong intelligence" is of no importance
here.

When the legitimation is altered from WMD to moral obligation to
remove a fierce dictator, then a success in helping the freed
population would be of great value. Why is there still no
infrastructure, no electricity in Bagdad after such a period of time?

But first people should accept the fact the Islam has many faces and
there are a few radical muslims inside or better: next to a large
group of kind, peace-seeking muslims. Just like there are
fundamentalist-christians who are consumed by their hate against (in
their eyes) non-christians who want to have a choice regarding fi
abortion, gay-marriage and euthanasia.

Regards, Len.

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Perhaps, due to the way the present America was taken by force from
the original inhabitants, war is in the cultural heritage of the us
somewhat seen as a legitimate and effective means to an end, much more
than in europe.

That's an interesting idea, maybe true.

Jeff Rigby wrote:
There was a vacumn here as 80% of the origional indians in the eastern
and south easteren continental US were killed by dieases brought in by
spanish explorers.

???

Do you actually believe this stuff, or do you pick it up on some secret
"wishful thinking" history website for fascist morons?

I suggest reading a basic U.S. history text... 5th grade is probably about
right.

DSK

Maybe you should read those books again. You have a selective memory as
indeed these facts were taught in my history books in Florida in the Fifth
grade. The Indians must have been killed by violence because the white man
is evil and the US government practices genocide. That is your world
view..... The truth is man is NOT inherently evil just stupid.

See:
http://www.uic.edu/classes/osci/osci...%20World. htm
18 million Indians die as a result of the first wave of diseases brought to
the new world by the Spanish

See: http://www.thefurtrapper.com/indian_smallpox.htm Rocky mountain
Indians decimated by white man diseases

See: http://www.kporterfield.com/aicttw/a...s/disease.html For a
timeline of diseases spread thru the continental US by European explorers

To be historically accurate Europeans are responsible for the deaths of most
of the Indians killed in the Continental United States.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 14:22:17 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Len wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 13:45:21 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

May the children of all the warmongers here suffer the same horrific
fate.

Got a cold chill reading this Harry.
But I agree 100% with what you mean.

Regards, Len.

It is immoral to sit safe in your house while you urge that the sons and
daughters of other families be sent off to foreign lands to fight and
die in a war based on a president's incompetency, stupidity, and deceit.

Harry, are you really one who should be talking of sitting safely in your
house
while others are being sent to foreign lands to fight and die?

I think not.

For a non-participant, you are quick with the moral judgements.
--
John H

I disagree, John. I think that if an elected official votes in favor of
the war, whether to signify agreement or to provide funding, that person's
kids should be the first to enlist. They should have 7 days to do this, or
be arrested. People who voted for a candidate who declared the war - same
thing. Off with their children, or the voters themselves, if they're
otherwise eligible for service (age & health). A little over half the
country voted for Nookular Boy. Take away those who are too old to serve
or have no kids and I'd imagine we could still come up with what.....maybe
10-20 million new soldiers? End of recruiting problem.

If there's a good reason not to think this way, I haven't heard it yet.
Sounds good to me as long as the military funding has been directed by those
same people long enough for it to be properly equipped so that we have the
LOW mortality rates we have now.

Do you realize how concerned the military mind is about their guys. Speed
limits and the belt law are RIGIDLY enforced on bases to prevent deaths from
car accidents. You only heard about shaped charges in regards to taking out
tanks in the past, now terrorists are using them against jeeps because of
the armor the troop carriers have installed to protect the crew.

European Jihad? Challenge?

What challenge?
"Skipper" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/ctlzp

Holy Crap, Skipper!

When was that picture taken, 1922?

You may be missing something very important here. Pay close attention.

But I thought it was a pic of Skipper and Harry back in the better days
of
rec.boats.

Harry would be the one in the middle...after his failed attempt at The
Challenge.

--
Skipper

"Len" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 16:39:35 -0500, John H.
wrote:

What's the Netherlands doing about the problems they're having with
Muslims,
Len? My friend in Stolwyjk seems to think there *is* a developing problem
over
there, and that taxes can be raised only so far to keep giving money to
folks
who aren't earning it.

Locally:

1) The problem in our country comes from a very small minority of
muslim-youngsters that later on are being influenced by foreign
jihadist-recruters.

Agreed, and we are taught in school here that the leaders of this jihadist
do NOT want the plight of their people improved, they want them poor and
demoralized so that they have a ready supply of recruits. Thus they bomb
schools and infrastructures. They also Encourage the people to not
integrate in the country they have immegrated to.

2) The vast majority are muslims that want a normal life. These people
don't live up to the "pure" islam taken literally. Seems everyone is
forgetting this large group.

Unfortunately they get painted with the broad brush of discrimination
because they are easily identified because of their religious practices with
the jihadists. The same problem happens here with blacks, because the crime
and disease rate for blacks is 5 times that of the others in this country
and they are easily identified because of their color. It's unfortunate and
the attitude of others is that they initially distrust until proven wrong.

3) These youngsters have trouble finding jobs cause economy is at a
baisse over here. So there are only few employers and these are able
to be picky.

Picky because you can choose a culturally known over an unknown employee.

This attitude is one of the causes. It is over here and it is in
France and in Germany and in.... The governments can't throw a switch
here. It's up to us, the society itself to give the boys and sometimes
girls a fair chance.

Also the right wing attitude of "all muslims are extremists" is to be
prevented/altered. In your eyes maybe a soft "therapy" but in the long
run an essential one.

It's the other way around or it's an impossible job. The muslems need to
prove that they are worthy of trust, not that we have to double think and
assume they are worthy of trust. They can do this by speaking out and
helping the police get these muslim extremists jailed. They won't unless
they have extreme courage as many are killed if they speak out.

Legislation is being adapted so the intention to use violence in the
future can be dealt with properly.

You already have laws as we did that deal with those issues. The problem is
that laws don't protect us from criminals they protect us from the law
abiding. Revisions of laws to allow the law abiding to protect us by
allowing them to invade the privacy of the criminals are needed.

I see where your friend is coming from. He shouldn't be afraid of a
tax-raise. Present government is increasing net income for the well to
do and also increases costs like healthcosts for the poor and elderly.
But spending taxpayers money to keep these people "working" is no
solution, never is imo. And this is not what is planned. It's the
expectability to get a real job that is to be improved. Ethnical
discrimination *is* a fact amongst employers. In a sense it may be
understandable but is causes immense trouble in the long run.

Internationally:

We're dependant of the world-leading nation: the US of A. and the way
it assesses the global situation, the wisdom and vision with which it
applies measures. We suffer more from ethnic troubles when the US
unintentionally feed the moral conviction of radical muslims by
occupying muslim countries for the wrong reasons.
The nuance between "lie" and "wrong intelligence" is of no importance
here.

Again, why do they care if Saddam was toppled, because he is Muslim.... the
religious leaders are whipping up resentment of non muslim countries. Many
of us thought that (nievely) there would be praise for a liberator of the
muslim people for a country that freed 20 million muslims from oppression.
This we projected would be the morally correct view. Morals have nothing to
do with a religious war by Muslim leaders on non muslim countries.

When the legitimation is altered from WMD to moral obligation to
remove a fierce dictator, then a success in helping the freed
population would be of great value. Why is there still no
infrastructure, no electricity in Bagdad after such a period of time?

Because the terrorists AND muslim leaders do not want a successful pro west
Iraq.

But first people should accept the fact the Islam has many faces and
there are a few radical muslims inside or better: next to a large
group of kind, peace-seeking muslims. Just like there are
fundamentalist-christians who are consumed by their hate against (in
their eyes) non-christians who want to have a choice regarding fi
abortion, gay-marriage and euthanasia.

Change few to many but with the proviso that; All muslim leaders are pushing
for the expansion of the Muslim religion, some few by violence. All will
take advantage of propaganda to inflame hatred of the west and then when
violence breaks out preach against it to their people. This has been the
trend over centuries. Inflame to violence and then preach compassion and
peace, inflame again and then caution compassion and peace...all while
taking over country by country using violent revolution. Any who preach
against their goals is killed so that all fear and none speak out.

The problem for us is that it works....All we offer is a world view that
allows the comman man the best life possible. We offer the scientific
method not dogma. But the scientific method does not allow one to blame
someone else for ones fortunes or lack of them. Thus it's not a popular way
of thought with the lazy or ignorant (majority of humanity).

Regards, Len.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Jeff Rigby wrote:
"DSK" wrote in message
...
Perhaps, due to the way the present America was taken by force from
the original inhabitants, war is in the cultural heritage of the us
somewhat seen as a legitimate and effective means to an end, much more
than in europe.
That's an interesting idea, maybe true.

Jeff Rigby wrote:
There was a vacumn here as 80% of the origional indians in the eastern
and south easteren continental US were killed by dieases brought in by
spanish explorers.
???

Do you actually believe this stuff, or do you pick it up on some secret
"wishful thinking" history website for fascist morons?

I suggest reading a basic U.S. history text... 5th grade is probably
about right.

DSK

Maybe you should read those books again. You have a selective memory as
indeed these facts were taught in my history books in Florida in the
Fifth grade. The Indians must have been killed by violence because the
white man is evil and the US government practices genocide. That is your
world view..... The truth is man is NOT inherently evil just stupid.

See:
http://www.uic.edu/classes/osci/osci...%20World. htm
18 million Indians die as a result of the first wave of diseases brought
to the new world by the Spanish

See: http://www.thefurtrapper.com/indian_smallpox.htm Rocky mountain
Indians decimated by white man diseases

See: http://www.kporterfield.com/aicttw/a...s/disease.html For a
timeline of diseases spread thru the continental US by European explorers

To be historically accurate Europeans are responsible for the deaths of
most of the Indians killed in the Continental United States.

So, you're claiming the diseases of your ancestors killed the majority of
native Americans, and then your ancestors robbed, pillaged and raped most
of the rest?

Nope I'm claiming based on FACTS posted that European diseases decimated the
Indian population. The available lands were then settled by Europeans and
when the settlers started encroaching on Indian lands (some 100 years after
the start of immigration to the continental US) the Indians attacked the
settlers. Being the stupid humans we are we didn't deal with them. We
militarily defeated them pushed them into smaller and smaller areas until
they attacked us again and the process started all over again.

Indians were the ones that "robbed, pillaged and raped" only because other
than lands they had nothing we wanted to rob. The Indians were human too
and lived up to our command heritage.

There is enough blame to go around.

There were three tribes (fuzzy on this) that integrated with the European
settlers (partly because there weren't enough of them left). They did this
because they were constantly being attacked by those tribes to the west that
were more aggressive and violent and they had more in common with us than
the Indian tribes to the west. Several of our constitutions founding
philosophies were taken from the constitution of those Indian tribes ( as
well of course from English law).

Jeff Rigby wrote:
...The Indians must have been killed by violence because the white man
is evil and the US government practices genocide. That is your world
view.....

Excuse me? Where did I say any such thing?

Oh wait, I forgot, you prefer too ignore reality.

See:
http://www.uic.edu/classes/osci/osci...%20World. htm
18 million Indians die as a result of the first wave of diseases brought to
the new world by the Spanish

Yep... it says 50%, which is a *very* high mortality rate for such plagues.

Nowhere does it say that diseases brought by Europeans wiped out 80% of
the Indians. One link says that one Caribbean island might have had that
high a mortality rate. The Black Death sweeping medieval Europe is now
believed to have had a mortality rate of about 30%.

Another funny thing, these issues were studied and the figures derived
by the same egg-head professional scholars that you scream about when
they talk about pollution & global warming & evolution. I guess you can
pick your own science to believe in, as convenient at the moment?

Thanks for the interesting links.

DSK

European Jihad? Challenge?

JIMinFL wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/ctlzp

Holy Crap, Skipper!

When was that picture taken, 1922?

You may be missing something very important here. Pay close attention.

But I thought it was a pic of Skipper and Harry back in the better days
of rec.boats.

Harry would be the one in the middle...after his failed attempt at The
Challenge.

What challenge?

Early on Krause was presented an opportunity to backup his assertions
regarding certain boating and trailering products and verify his boating
skills. As it came time for rubber to hit the road in this reasonable
test, Harry whimpered off. That's the thing about Harry, when
Challenged, he seems unable to stand tall.

--
Skipper