Harry Krause wrote:

Dan Krueger wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

Dan J.S. wrote:


Knowing that 2-3 grand from each vehicle is made to pay for some
employee retirement plan is enough for me to say screw that! I would
rather if that 2-3 grand was spent in making the truck not fall
apart after 5 years.




You're opposed to employee retirement plans?


A 401K is a great retirement plan.

Dan



Not compared to a defined benefit plan, but they're ok in conjunction
with one. Perhaps you trust large corporation financial officers and the
CPA firms that suck up to them; I don't. Too many perfectly legal ways
to cook the books.

Mine was through Fidelity. I rolled it into an IRA when I started my
business. Employers are required to send the funds to 401K plans.

Union retirement plans are fully funded?

On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 09:12:21 -0500, "Dan J.S." wrote:


"Jack Goff" wrote in message


I'm not a big GM fan, but my current yard truck is an '89 Chevy 1500.
Original 350 motor, tranny, rear end. Interior and body all original.
Everything works,it drives and rides great, and it still looks good.
At 16 years old, it's worth more than that Toy.

Besides, it'll snatch that puny-assed Toyota all over the place.
3500# towing limit? That's not a towing limit... it's a warning... to
not try to tow anything!



Give it up dude. Any Toyota truck will put ANY GM or Ford truck to shame.


OK, "dude", surf's up. Let's give it a whirl.

Any Toyota truck includes Doug's, so it qualifies, right? Doug's
towing capacity is 3500 lbs (snicker), so when he hooks up to
Shortwave's boat, the game is all over. It can't safely tow the boat
and an ice chest full of fish home. Period.

Enter a Ford F150. It can hookup and tow both the boat and the tiny
Toy truck home with a 8500 lb towing capacity.

Who is ashamed now?

But hey... the Toyota is not a bad vehicle... it will get the
groceries, pick up some ice and beer, make a pizza run... oh, you get
the idea. But if you need to do some real work, tow some real weight,
need a full sized truck, you'll need to look to Ford, GM, or Dodge for
your answer. The ricer trucks are getting close to matching the
capabilities of a standard American truck,. but can't come close to
the abilities af a F-250 or GM 2500 series.

Once again... 3500# towing limit? That's not a towing limit... it's
a warning... to not try to tow anything!

Jack

3500#? snicker... hell, I'll bet my Boxster would tow that!

"Dan Krueger" wrote in message
ink.net...
Harry Krause wrote:

Dan Krueger wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

Dan J.S. wrote:


Knowing that 2-3 grand from each vehicle is made to pay for some
employee retirement plan is enough for me to say screw that! I would
rather if that 2-3 grand was spent in making the truck not fall
apart after 5 years.




You're opposed to employee retirement plans?


A 401K is a great retirement plan.

Dan



Not compared to a defined benefit plan, but they're ok in conjunction
with one. Perhaps you trust large corporation financial officers and
the
CPA firms that suck up to them; I don't. Too many perfectly legal ways
to cook the books.

Mine was through Fidelity. I rolled it into an IRA when I started my
business. Employers are required to send the funds to 401K plans.

Union retirement plans are fully funded?

Not for long...........

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Dan J.S. wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Dan J.S. wrote:


Knowing that 2-3 grand from each vehicle is made to pay for some
employee retirement plan is enough for me to say screw that! I would
rather if that 2-3 grand was spent in making the truck not fall apart
after 5 years.

You're opposed to employee retirement plans?

The ones GM gives up to its unions, driving the U.S. automobile industry
in the gutter - yes I am.

Other than that, I am not.

The retirement plans are the result of collective bargaining, and for the
most part represent hourly earnings the employees could have seen as gross
income in their paychecks had they so chose. GM isn't giving the employees
anything; the employees decided that they wanted a percentage of their
income going towards retirement.

Many US corporations have unfunded pension liability problems. *THAT* is
the fault of management and greedy stockholders.

If the US auto industry is in the gutter, it isn't because of its
unionized employees; it is because of bad, shortsighted management.


Auto union over compensated pensions are because of shortsighted management.
For years when Detroit was the only game for a decent vehicle, they gave the
union most of what they asked for. They were rolling in income. But since
Deming went to Japan and taught them about quality control, at least Toyota
and Honda, the pie got smaller. But the unions did not admit that. Toyota
cars are not the best as a car, but Toyota is probably the premier
manufacturing company in the world. Do not change something that is
working, unless they need to for milage, etc. That 2005 Toyota engine will
most likely bolt in to any 15 year old Toyota. Other than the electronics,
and FI, same basic engine. Cars handles like crap, but it will handle like
crap for a lot of miles.

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 18:28:10 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:41:55 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

By contrast, spend some time looking over a Toyota, imagining how you'd
access various things for repair. They're brilliantly thought out.

Exactly - because you have to fix them all the time.

That's not engineering brilliance - that's common sense. :)

NOTE: For the record, we once owned a Volvo that was so over
engineered, to change the warning/signal flasher, you had to remove
the dashboard to get to it.

And, wasn't it one of the Firebirds or Camaros that required loosening an
engine mount and lifting the motor a few inches to access at least one of
the spark plugs? Back in the late 1970s, IIRC.

Cadillac actually - both rear cylinders - had to detach the engine
from the tranny.

That was just plain stupid.

Mustang big blocks also the same thing as a Cougar. Just make a hole in the
fender well.

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 17:54:31 -0400, "Glenn S."
wrote:

or buy a real truck with a PowerStroke Diesel

Damn straight. :)

Duramax. Quieter, better milage, more pulling power.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Bill McKee wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Dan J.S. wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Dan J.S. wrote:


Knowing that 2-3 grand from each vehicle is made to pay for some
employee retirement plan is enough for me to say screw that! I would
rather if that 2-3 grand was spent in making the truck not fall apart
after 5 years.
You're opposed to employee retirement plans?
The ones GM gives up to its unions, driving the U.S. automobile
industry in the gutter - yes I am.

Other than that, I am not.
The retirement plans are the result of collective bargaining, and for
the most part represent hourly earnings the employees could have seen as
gross income in their paychecks had they so chose. GM isn't giving the
employees anything; the employees decided that they wanted a percentage
of their income going towards retirement.

Many US corporations have unfunded pension liability problems. *THAT* is
the fault of management and greedy stockholders.

If the US auto industry is in the gutter, it isn't because of its
unionized employees; it is because of bad, shortsighted management.


Auto union over compensated pensions are because of shortsighted
management.



Overcompensated pension? You mean a worker who spends most of his
productive life toiling in a factory shouldn't be able to retire with a
decent pension?

Worker pension plans are the largest source of capital in the world. Too
bad so many corporations mismanage them.

Too bad union pensions were so badly managed and looted by the union
leaders.

Harry,
I thought it was Unions who mismanaged the pension funds, giving
questionable loans to the mob. It has been suggested by many that the union
leaders personally profited from these questionable loans.


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Bill McKee wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Dan J.S. wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Dan J.S. wrote:


Knowing that 2-3 grand from each vehicle is made to pay for some
employee retirement plan is enough for me to say screw that! I would
rather if that 2-3 grand was spent in making the truck not fall apart
after 5 years.
You're opposed to employee retirement plans?
The ones GM gives up to its unions, driving the U.S. automobile
industry in the gutter - yes I am.

Other than that, I am not.
The retirement plans are the result of collective bargaining, and for
the most part represent hourly earnings the employees could have seen as
gross income in their paychecks had they so chose. GM isn't giving the
employees anything; the employees decided that they wanted a percentage
of their income going towards retirement.

Many US corporations have unfunded pension liability problems. *THAT* is
the fault of management and greedy stockholders.

If the US auto industry is in the gutter, it isn't because of its
unionized employees; it is because of bad, shortsighted management.


Auto union over compensated pensions are because of shortsighted
management.



Overcompensated pension? You mean a worker who spends most of his
productive life toiling in a factory shouldn't be able to retire with a
decent pension?

Worker pension plans are the largest source of capital in the world. Too
bad so many corporations mismanage them.

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 02:12:54 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


It's precisely the towing limit of my truck. Being a Toyota, it's
probably a
conservative number, but still....I don't want to mess up a 10 year
investment. If it was a throwaway like a Chevy or Ford....


ROFLMAO.... and I tow #8,000 with a Colorado.....


throwaway, indeed......

No kidding.

My second truck is a 1989 Chevy Silvarado, with a TBI 350, and 242k miles on
it.

All original, and still runs great. Has over 30 psi of oil pressure, and of
those 242k miles...80% were haulin' a boat!

How old are you Dougie?


--
-Netsock

"It's just about going fast...that's all..."
http://home.columbus.rr.com/ckg/

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Dan J.S. wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Dan J.S. wrote:


Knowing that 2-3 grand from each vehicle is made to pay for some
employee retirement plan is enough for me to say screw that! I would
rather if that 2-3 grand was spent in making the truck not fall apart
after 5 years.

You're opposed to employee retirement plans?

The ones GM gives up to its unions, driving the U.S. automobile
industry
in the gutter - yes I am.

Other than that, I am not.

The retirement plans are the result of collective bargaining, and for
the
most part represent hourly earnings the employees could have seen as
gross
income in their paychecks had they so chose. GM isn't giving the
employees
anything; the employees decided that they wanted a percentage of their
income going towards retirement.

Many US corporations have unfunded pension liability problems. *THAT* is
the fault of management and greedy stockholders.

If the US auto industry is in the gutter, it isn't because of its
unionized employees; it is because of bad, shortsighted management.


Auto union over compensated pensions are because of shortsighted
management.
For years when Detroit was the only game for a decent vehicle, they gave
the
union most of what they asked for. They were rolling in income. But
since
Deming went to Japan and taught them about quality control, at least
Toyota
and Honda, the pie got smaller. But the unions did not admit that.
Toyota
cars are not the best as a car, but Toyota is probably the premier
manufacturing company in the world. Do not change something that is
working, unless they need to for milage, etc. That 2005 Toyota engine
will
most likely bolt in to any 15 year old Toyota. Other than the
electronics,
and FI, same basic engine. Cars handles like crap, but it will handle
like
crap for a lot of miles.

Steel companies, airlines, automotive are all suffering from the defined
pension plans.....which is why they will be a thing of the past in the near
future.