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Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
"John Smith" wrote in message news:tfWKc.120453$%_6.104078@attbi_s01... Nah, I could care less if you respond to any of my posts. I know you read each one of them. I have also noticed you have not discussed your wife's two degrees or your lobster boat since both of them were pointed out as being a figment of your mind. Another sign of an arguement lost........accusations of posting under multiple names in a lame attempt to deny the fact that most people realize he is FOS.....what a pathetic union flunky. "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... basskisser wrote: "John Smith" wrote in message news:R1PKc.95897$WX.83950@attbi_s51... The only difference between Jax and Harry is Jax is a troll who is very effective in starting long boating related threads. Harry is a troll who is very effective in starting long Non-boating related threads. And you're just an idiot. He's actually kinda a hydra-headed idiot at that, and appears here under several different idiotic right-wing handles. Like most of the others, he lives for notice from me. Poor little ****. |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
P.Fritz wrote:
Another sign of an arguement lost........accusations of posting under multiple names in a lame attempt to deny the fact that most people realize he is FOS.....what a pathetic union flunky. Ahh. Yet another right-wing wussie whose sister had to perform unspeakable acts in the playground to keep the fifth-grade bullies from beating the crap out of her brother. What's the matter, Fritzie...did a qualified union carpenter keep you from getting a real job? |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... My "...sister had to perform unspeakable acts in the playground to keep the fifth-grade bullies from beating the crap out of her brother. Ah, so that explains why you are the way you are. |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
JAXAshby wrote:
yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet, it is physically impossible to know where you are on the planet using just a compass and a speed indicator. that some people believe otherwise just goes to show you that some people are utterly ignorant. the rocks don't care what you believe. not in the slightest. It's also impossible to know where you are on the planet using GPS, or any other navigation system. You said it yourself, one of the rare times you said something correct. It's a physical impossibility to be completely accurate. There's error in everything. The only difference is in how much error there is, how well the amount of error can be estimated and whether it's more than required for a specific application. Steve |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
guys, you can argue idiocy all you want, but it does not change the fact that
"dead" as used the context of navigation is incorrect usage as to what the word "dead" means. |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
hoary, I have only one screen name I have ever posted on any ng ever. It's
your mind that goes in multiple directions at the same time. The only difference between Jax and Harry is Jax is a troll who is very effective in starting long boating related threads. Harry is a troll who is very effective in starting long Non-boating related threads. And you're just an idiot. He's actually kinda a hydra-headed idiot at that, and appears here under several different idiotic right-wing handles. Like most of the others, he lives for notice from me. Poor little ****. |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
"steve" WTF are you on??
yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet, it is physically impossible to know where you are on the planet using just a compass and a speed indicator. that some people believe otherwise just goes to show you that some people are utterly ignorant. the rocks don't care what you believe. not in the slightest. It's also impossible to know where you are on the planet using GPS, or any other navigation system. You said it yourself, one of the rare times you said something correct. It's a physical impossibility to be completely accurate. There's error in everything. The only difference is in how much error there is, how well the amount of error can be estimated and whether it's more than required for a specific application. Steve |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
JAXAshby wrote:
guys, you can argue idiocy all you want, but it does not change the fact that "dead" as used the context of navigation is incorrect usage as to what the word "dead" means. Absurd. You have nothing of significance as an authority, and you certainly are no authority. |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
guys, you can argue idiocy all you want,
Is that particularly different than arguing with an idiot? but it does not change the fact that "dead" as used the context of navigation is incorrect usage as to what the word "dead" means. With all that hogwash, you must own some very clean pigs. The meaning of any word is what it is commonly understood to communicate. Nearly all naigators use the term "dead reckoning" and understand what it means. Parsing the word "dead" is a useful exercise only for NG trolls and those of us stupid enough to respond to them. |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
JAXAshby wrote: guys, you can argue idiocy all you want, but it does not change the fact that "dead" as used the context of navigation is incorrect usage as to what the word "dead" means. Tell ya what you do ..... start writing letters to all those writers and publishers of books, on the subject of navigation; all the marina operators; port authorities; sailors, etc., and tell them JAXAshby says the are to henceforth use only the term "ded reckoning" when discussing "DR" and that it only applies to speed/time/heading. Come back in a couple years and let us know how your campaign is going ..... otn |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
Steven Shelikoff wrote in message ...
JAXAshby wrote: yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet, it is physically impossible to know where you are on the planet using just a compass and a speed indicator. that some people believe otherwise just goes to show you that some people are utterly ignorant. the rocks don't care what you believe. not in the slightest. It's also impossible to know where you are on the planet using GPS, or any other navigation system. You said it yourself, one of the rare times you said something correct. It's a physical impossibility to be completely accurate. There's error in everything. The only difference is in how much error there is, how well the amount of error can be estimated and whether it's more than required for a specific application. Steve Oh, crap! I can't wait to see what Jax has to say about your above statements. no doubt, he'll come up with something, whether it actually has anything to do with the subject, we'll see. |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
otnmbrd wrote:
JAXAshby wrote: guys, you can argue idiocy all you want, but it does not change the fact that "dead" as used the context of navigation is incorrect usage as to what the word "dead" means. Tell ya what you do ..... start writing letters to all those writers and publishers of books, on the subject of navigation; all the marina operators; port authorities; sailors, etc., and tell them JAXAshby says the are to henceforth use only the term "ded reckoning" when discussing "DR" and that it only applies to speed/time/heading. Come back in a couple years and let us know how your campaign is going ..... otn There you go. And since JaxAss has no credentials whatsoever in any field, I'm sure the publishers will cite him in their upcoming editions. |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
grouch, because the word is misused and because the "common" usage of the word
implies high end precision, a whole generation of sailors believe it is perfectly safe to wonder around among the rocks in fog, with just a compass and speed indicator onboard. In fact, the USPS teaches that very nav system as indeed a precision nav system. Nevermind, that just 25 years ago boats stew ped enough to be caught near the rock in fog often ended up on the rocks before the fog lifted. you can call it Santa Claus, if you wish, but it ain't. but it does not change the fact that "dead" as used the context of navigation is incorrect usage as to what the word "dead" means. With all that hogwash, you must own some very clean pigs. The meaning of any word is what it is commonly understood to communicate. Nearly all naigators use the term "dead reckoning" and understand what it means. Parsing the word "dead" is a useful exercise only for NG trolls and those of us stupid enough to respond to them. |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
we have a start, don't we?
actually, many, many, many writers have said the very same thing I said. It is perhaps less of an issue today because gps's can be had for under a hundred bucks, new. guys, you can argue idiocy all you want, but it does not change the fact that "dead" as used the context of navigation is incorrect usage as to what the word "dead" means. Tell ya what you do ..... start writing letters to all those writers and publishers of books, on the subject of navigation; all the marina operators; port authorities; sailors, etc., and tell them JAXAshby says the are to henceforth use only the term "ded reckoning" when discussing "DR" and that it only applies to speed/time/heading. Come back in a couple years and let us know how your campaign is going ..... otn |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
hoary, this idea/this discussion is not new with me. It was once part and
parcel of all valid sailing courses. otnmbrd wrote: JAXAshby wrote: guys, you can argue idiocy all you want, but it does not change the fact that "dead" as used the context of navigation is incorrect usage as to what the word "dead" means. Tell ya what you do ..... start writing letters to all those writers and publishers of books, on the subject of navigation; all the marina operators; port authorities; sailors, etc., and tell them JAXAshby says the are to henceforth use only the term "ded reckoning" when discussing "DR" and that it only applies to speed/time/heading. Come back in a couple years and let us know how your campaign is going ..... otn There you go. And since JaxAss has no credentials whatsoever in any field, I'm sure the publishers will cite him in their upcoming editions. |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
base kisser, I have nothing say about "steve" statement. It was, and was
intended to be, specious. Steven Shelikoff wrote in message ... JAXAshby wrote: yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet, it is physically impossible to know where you are on the planet using just a compass and a speed indicator. that some people believe otherwise just goes to show you that some people are utterly ignorant. the rocks don't care what you believe. not in the slightest. It's also impossible to know where you are on the planet using GPS, or any other navigation system. You said it yourself, one of the rare times you said something correct. It's a physical impossibility to be completely accurate. There's error in everything. The only difference is in how much error there is, how well the amount of error can be estimated and whether it's more than required for a specific application. Steve Oh, crap! I can't wait to see what Jax has to say about your above statements. no doubt, he'll come up with something, whether it actually has anything to do with the subject, we'll see. |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
gene, you still don't understand what a reference point is. if I am 270 to The
Statue of Liberty and and 000 to the Fireboat House in Battery Park, I definitely know I am. On the other hand, if I am 270 from some unknown statue and 000 to some unknown house, then I don't know where I am. reference points are known, that is why they are reference points. if you don't know where they are then they are not reference points, but rather merely features on the seascape. big difference. At least when trying to navigate around rocks in a fog. gene, a reference point is a known quantity. that is the very definition of the word "reference". if you don't know where it is it isn't a reference point. and if you have reference points you are not DRing. Jax, you are such a numbskull..... of course a reference point is a known quantity. I am 280 degrees and 4 nautical miles from Rock "A," 123 degrees from Rock "B," and 42 degrees from Rock "C." I have three known quantities and still don't have enough information to tell where in the state, hemisphere, or globe that I am. The point that your stupid statement, " If you can see outside reference points, then you KNOW where you are..." is patently false by your later admission. The fact that I can "see outside" and locate points "A," :B," and "C" says NOTHING about where I am in a meaningful context. You don't seem to understand that a vessel, unsure of its location, is seeking reference points in accordance with its OWN location. If it knew where the hell it was,it wouldn't need to be relying solely on triangulating a fix. The conundrum, here, is correctly relating the observed points with *actual* points... an error that has cost countless lives in land, sea, and air navigation.... probably by people that had nothing other than a laboratory understanding of the earth... such as you.... -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC. http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC is located. http://www.southharbourvillageinn.linksysnet.com Real Time Pictures at My Marina http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
Subject: Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
From: (JAXAshby) Date: 07/20/2004 19:22 Pacific Standard Time Message-id: grouch, because the word is misused and because the "common" usage of the word implies high end precision, Are you saying "Bowditch" is misusing a term of navigation? The only person who thinks it implies high end precision, is you. To imply high end precision the term would have to be Dead-on Reckoning. a whole generation of sailors believe it is perfectly safe to wonder around among the rocks in fog, with just a compass and speed indicator onboard. In fact, the USPS teaches that very nav system as indeed a precision nav system. Nevermind, that just 25 years ago boats stew ped enough to be caught near the rock in fog often ended up on the rocks before the fog lifted. you can call it Santa Claus, if you wish, but it ain't. All your post do is confirm that you have done little if any navigation. Shen |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
What does having GPS have to do with how the terms "dead reckoning",
"deduced reckoning", and "ded reckoning" are applied. Sorry jax, but what you have to say about any phase of navigation carries little if any weight since it's so obvious you have no practical experience to back up your claims. otn JAXAshby wrote: we have a start, don't we? actually, many, many, many writers have said the very same thing I said. It is perhaps less of an issue today because gps's can be had for under a hundred bucks, new. guys, you can argue idiocy all you want, but it does not change the fact that "dead" as used the context of navigation is incorrect usage as to what the word "dead" means. Tell ya what you do ..... start writing letters to all those writers and publishers of books, on the subject of navigation; all the marina operators; port authorities; sailors, etc., and tell them JAXAshby says the are to henceforth use only the term "ded reckoning" when discussing "DR" and that it only applies to speed/time/heading. Come back in a couple years and let us know how your campaign is going ..... otn |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
over the knee, it has to do with the the fact that navigating with DR as your
primary nav system is not necessary at all, given the low price of gps's today. In addition, there is zero point zero need to nav at all in fog with rocks nearby using DR. over the knee, you need to get out on the water some time see what this stuff is all about. What does having GPS have to do with how the terms "dead reckoning", "deduced reckoning", and "ded reckoning" are applied. Sorry jax, but what you have to say about any phase of navigation carries little if any weight since it's so obvious you have no practical experience to back up your claims. otn JAXAshby wrote: we have a start, don't we? actually, many, many, many writers have said the very same thing I said. It is perhaps less of an issue today because gps's can be had for under a hundred bucks, new. guys, you can argue idiocy all you want, but it does not change the fact that "dead" as used the context of navigation is incorrect usage as to what the word "dead" means. Tell ya what you do ..... start writing letters to all those writers and publishers of books, on the subject of navigation; all the marina operators; port authorities; sailors, etc., and tell them JAXAshby says the are to henceforth use only the term "ded reckoning" when discussing "DR" and that it only applies to speed/time/heading. Come back in a couple years and let us know how your campaign is going ..... otn |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
|
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
JAXAshby wrote: over the knee, it has to do with the the fact that navigating with DR as your primary nav system is not necessary at all, given the low price of gps's today. In addition, there is zero point zero need to nav at all in fog with rocks nearby using DR. over the knee, you need to get out on the water some time see what this stuff is all about. BG I probably spend more time on the water playing with/using more types of navigational tools, in one week during any month of the year, than you do in an entire year...... the difference is, that I've learned to use all these "tools", individually and as groups working together and to play off on the shortcomings of each. GPS and DGPS are probably the best tools, to date, that a navigator has to use, but to be used safely you need to know what the information is, that you are getting and what the possible problems are with using that information, straight from your receiver. We can all tell stories of the guy who gets a GPS, inputs a number of waypoints to get from point A to B, sets sail and proceeds to run himself aground on some rocks, etc.. To use GPS safely, you need to understand and be able to use not only *your* definition of DR, but the definition of others. You need to be able to plot, to understand set and drift, etc. .... all the things you learned with DR, to monitor what the GPS is showing and what you need to do to keep yourself in good water. People have used basic "DR" to get from point A to B safely for centuries, be it in open waters or near the rocks and sadly, some have failed to make it. People are using GPS to get from A to B safely, but sadly some still fail to make it, though thankfully, fewer now than before. Those that fail, have generally been those who think that all they need to know is the information their GPS gives them. Simply stated, the more you know and can fall back on when your "gadget" fails (and it will) the safer you will be. As for "DR" .... define it and use it any way you want, but don't try and tell me *how* it should be defined and/or used or can be used, as you don't have the training, experience, knowledge, background, etc.,etc., to do so. It's a big world out there jax. Not everyone has easy access to GPS. otn |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
What does having GPS have to do with how the terms "dead reckoning",
"deduced reckoning", and "ded reckoning" are applied. most mariners who can use a gps have one or two or three onboard, and thus are likely to hit the rocks by wandering blindly in a fog thinking their "dead reckoning" navigation has them dead bang on course with dead on precision that is dead on center and dead even with expectations. |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
I probably spend more time on the water playing with/using more
types of navigational tools, in one week during any month of the year, than you do in an entire year...... oh? then how come you confuse DR with pilotage, even as you claim DR is precise? |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
People have used basic "DR" to get from point A to B safely for
centuries, no they have not used it "safely". a full 25% of ALL commercial ships in the final 50 years of sail powered shipping -- presumably the years of greatest knowledge and skills in DR) sank before being taken out of service due to age (about 20 years usage) |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
As for "DR" .... define it and use it any way you want, but don't try
and tell me *how* it should be defined and/or used or can be used, as you don't have the training, experience, knowledge, background, etc.,etc., to do so. no master mariner -- as you proclaim yourself to be -- confuses DR with pilotage. It is the same as claiming to be a 1,000,000 mile trucker and confuse a two-speed axel with an overdrive transmission. |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
The point made by the original poster was that if you can identify
three points you still don't necessarily know your true position. REF FER ENCE points, gene. for the krimminy sakes, gene. ya gotta have REFERENCE points. And you no gots dem when you only gots speed through the water and a compass and a timepiece. In the discussion of the efficacy of ded reckoning efficacy (sic) is the wrong word. effectiveness is the right word, and DR is effective as no more than a guess of deteriorating accuracry as time goes on. if I am not lost, then I am not lost? but you ARE lost if you don't have **reference** points to **refer** to, |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
JAXAshby wrote: As for "DR" .... define it and use it any way you want, but don't try and tell me *how* it should be defined and/or used or can be used, as you don't have the training, experience, knowledge, background, etc.,etc., to do so. no master mariner -- as you proclaim yourself to be -- confuses DR with pilotage. It is the same as claiming to be a 1,000,000 mile trucker and confuse a two-speed axel with an overdrive transmission. ROFL Jax, you must be really hard up for an argument. When you get past some simplistic definition you've read somewhere and get some experience in the "doing", come on back and we'll talk. otn |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
over the knee, you be stew ped if you believe you can increase the accuracy of
DR just by changing the practise to that of pilotage, while leaving the old name intact. just admit it, you did not know the difference prior. As for "DR" .... define it and use it any way you want, but don't try and tell me *how* it should be defined and/or used or can be used, as you don't have the training, experience, knowledge, background, etc.,etc., to do so. no master mariner -- as you proclaim yourself to be -- confuses DR with pilotage. It is the same as claiming to be a 1,000,000 mile trucker and confuse a two-speed axel with an overdrive transmission. ROFL Jax, you must be really hard up for an argument. When you get past some simplistic definition you've read somewhere and get some experience in the "doing", come on back and we'll talk. otn |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
ubject: Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
From: (JAXAshby) Date: 08/07/2004 07:21 Pacific Standard Time Message-id: People have used basic "DR" to get from point A to B safely for centuries, no they have not used it "safely". a full 25% of ALL commercial ships in the final 50 years of sail powered shipping -- presumably the years of greatest knowledge and skills in DR) sank before being taken out of service due to age (about 20 years usage) Soooo, what your saying is that 75% of sailing vessels had full careers. The other 25% may have made only one voyage or thousands of voyages before sinking or grounding prior to their 20 year demise. Depending on how you manipulate the statistics, we can probably make this sound bad OR good. Shen |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
shen, think of it this way. what would *you* do IF 25% of ALL commercial
aircraft crashed before making it 20 years? People have used basic "DR" to get from point A to B safely for centuries, no they have not used it "safely". a full 25% of ALL commercial ships in the final 50 years of sail powered shipping -- presumably the years of greatest knowledge and skills in DR) sank before being taken out of service due to age (about 20 years usage) Soooo, what your saying is that 75% of sailing vessels had full careers. The other 25% may have made only one voyage or thousands of voyages before sinking or grounding prior to their 20 year demise. Depending on how you manipulate the statistics, we can probably make this sound bad OR good. Shen |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
When you learn what "pilotage" is, come on back and we'll discuss it.
otn JAXAshby wrote: over the knee, you be stew ped if you believe you can increase the accuracy of DR just by changing the practise to that of pilotage, while leaving the old name intact. just admit it, you did not know the difference prior. As for "DR" .... define it and use it any way you want, but don't try and tell me *how* it should be defined and/or used or can be used, as you don't have the training, experience, knowledge, background, etc.,etc., to do so. no master mariner -- as you proclaim yourself to be -- confuses DR with pilotage. It is the same as claiming to be a 1,000,000 mile trucker and confuse a two-speed axel with an overdrive transmission. ROFL Jax, you must be really hard up for an argument. When you get past some simplistic definition you've read somewhere and get some experience in the "doing", come on back and we'll talk. otn |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
|
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
kriste almighty, gene, learn to read your own cites. what you quoted is not
even remotely associated with what you claim. not even close. No, Jax, that is the word I meant to use. It means having the power to produce the desired result. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=efficacy |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
Last I checked, using vector quantities was not fuzzy science...
it is if you use fuzzy data. duh. |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
the one that you said ded reckoning can't be used for
IFR.... ROFLMAO.... yep, I remember DR and IFR are mutually exclusive terms. duh. |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
was too stupid a statement for anybody to
make, even for you, but no.... you did say..... "If you know where you are, you aren't lost." well, IF you have ***reference*** points THEN you know where your are, and therefore are NOT lost. if on the other hand you do not have reference points, then you are lost. gene, maybe you don't know what the word "reference" means? |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
Subject: Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
From: (JAXAshby) Date: 08/07/2004 11:03 Pacific Standard Time Message-id: shen, think of it this way. what would *you* do IF 25% of ALL commercial aircraft crashed before making it 20 years? If it was back in the teens or twenties, I'd probably create the FAA. How'd yer planes life span look back then? Shen |
Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
back in the 1920's, ships (and aircraft, at least some of them) had RDF,
specifically to avoid the dangers of DRing. shen, think of it this way. what would *you* do IF 25% of ALL commercial aircraft crashed before making it 20 years? If it was back in the teens or twenties, I'd probably create the FAA. How'd yer planes life span look back then? Shen |
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