Liberal Racist?
 

India's Labor Laws, state that the maximum workday is 8 hrs a day and a
maximum workweek of 48 hrs. While smaller business using unskilled labor,
do ignore those laws, the companies that involved in telephone support do
not.




wrote in message
nk.net...
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in590004.shtml
On any given day in New Delhi and Bombay and Bangalore, the call goes out
for new call center recruits as more and more American companies come
calling. The call center employees earn $3,000 to $5,000 a year, in a
nation
where the per capita income is less than $500. The perks include free
private transport to and from work plus the sheer heaven of an
air-conditioned workplace.

Now John, I know you are going to say that 3 grand a year does not equal 1
dollar an hour, but you must remember the people there are reported to
work
12 hours a day 5 and 6 days a week.

5 days a week is 3120 hours a year
6 days a week is 3744 hours a year

An American, working a 40 hour work week at minimum wage of $5.25 per hour
would make a gross salary of 10,920

"John Smith" wrote in message
news:hfHGc.36245$XM6.24561@attbi_s53...
Gould,
I am curious where you found the info on paying those in India $1 an
hour,
can you provide a link?


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
You think Dell's going to find people in Texas who
are fluent in English and will work for $5.75 per hour?

$1 per hour is the going rate for English speaking help in India or
the
Phillipines.

'Course you can halfway live on $40 a week in some places. In Texas,
that
40
bucks would fill your gas tank, buy you a six pack, and leave enough
left
over
for a corn dog. Every week.

Liberal Racist?
 

According www.sweatshops-retail.org those in the "formal sector" (i.e.
Telephone support) do not work 12 hour days, but work 8 hrs and 40 to 48
hrs per week.


wrote in message
nk.net...
Now John, I know you are going to say that 3 grand a year does not equal 1
dollar an hour, but you must remember the people there are reported to
work
12 hours a day 5 and 6 days a week.

5 days a week is 3120 hours a year
6 days a week is 3744 hours a year

An American, working a 40 hour work week at minimum wage of $5.25 per hour
would make a gross salary of 10,920

"John Smith" wrote in message
news:hfHGc.36245$XM6.24561@attbi_s53...
Gould,
I am curious where you found the info on paying those in India $1 an
hour,
can you provide a link?


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
You think Dell's going to find people in Texas who
are fluent in English and will work for $5.75 per hour?

$1 per hour is the going rate for English speaking help in India or
the
Phillipines.

'Course you can halfway live on $40 a week in some places. In Texas,
that
40
bucks would fill your gas tank, buy you a six pack, and leave enough
left
over
for a corn dog. Every week.

Liberal Racist?
 

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...

Have we shifted to relative purchasing power? I misunderstood our
discussion to
be centered upon the truth or fiction of the statement that wages in
Indian
call centers
are about $1 an hour US.

When I went to web sites of those involved in hiring the people involved in
the call center support they stated that the average telephone support
person earns $2 to $3 an hour, not $1 or less. Your links stating $1 were
articles talking about the problem of outsourcing, and accurate facts were
not important to the discussion.





The problem is in the
exchange rate, and an isolationist policy or implementing a restrictive
tariff on all goods and services imported into the US will not correct
this
problem or be of any benefit the US economy or it's work force.

I agree. It would be unrealistic to expect most corporations to avoid the
race
to the bottom, wage wise. Sometimes being competitive means seeking out
the
lowest common denominator and hanging on for dear life.

Those Indians will soon discover what most of the offshore boat building
countries have experienced in the last 15 or 20 years. As soon as the
wages
rise a little bit, the corporations will bail out of India
as if the place had a contagious disease.
If some county 1000 miles away will work for 50-cents and hour rather than
a
buck,
he whole kit and kaboodle will upsticks and move.

Liberal Racist?
 

Ok.. So it is 2496 hours a year
$3,000 dollars a year.

$1.20 per hour

Figuring a 48 hour work week:
An American just lost $14,198.08 at the federal minimum wage of $5.25 per
hour.

A skilled American just lost $27,040 at $10.00 per hour.

The company saved $11,198.08 or $24,040 for the skilled American, not
including the amount they would have been paying in matching taxes to the
United States Department of Social Security.

The United States Government looses Federal Income Taxes paid by the
employee, Social Security taxes paid by the employee, matching social
security taxes paid by the company.

The local government looses property taxes.

The state government looses state employment taxes, state sales taxes.

Looks like the Company is the winner in this while the rest of America
suffers.

Put the numbers to it, there is no way outsourcing jobs is good for the
American people.


"John Smith" wrote in message
news:DNUGc.39078$%_6.9986@attbi_s01...
India's Labor Laws, state that the maximum workday is 8 hrs a day and a
maximum workweek of 48 hrs. While smaller business using unskilled labor,
do ignore those laws, the companies that involved in telephone support do
not.




wrote in message
nk.net...
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in590004.shtml
On any given day in New Delhi and Bombay and Bangalore, the call goes
out
for new call center recruits as more and more American companies come
calling. The call center employees earn $3,000 to $5,000 a year, in a
nation
where the per capita income is less than $500. The perks include free
private transport to and from work plus the sheer heaven of an
air-conditioned workplace.

Now John, I know you are going to say that 3 grand a year does not equal
1
dollar an hour, but you must remember the people there are reported to
work
12 hours a day 5 and 6 days a week.

5 days a week is 3120 hours a year
6 days a week is 3744 hours a year

An American, working a 40 hour work week at minimum wage of $5.25 per
hour
would make a gross salary of 10,920

"John Smith" wrote in message
news:hfHGc.36245$XM6.24561@attbi_s53...
Gould,
I am curious where you found the info on paying those in India $1 an
hour,
can you provide a link?


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
You think Dell's going to find people in Texas who
are fluent in English and will work for $5.75 per hour?

$1 per hour is the going rate for English speaking help in India or
the
Phillipines.

'Course you can halfway live on $40 a week in some places. In Texas,
that
40
bucks would fill your gas tank, buy you a six pack, and leave enough
left
over
for a corn dog. Every week.

Liberal Racist?
 

So if you want your argument to carry weight it is best to use accurate
info, instead of repeating rumors and incorrect data.

"Accurate data" being anything that agrees with your assertion and "rumors and
incorrect data" anything that does not?

Here's something so outdated it is certain to be incorrect. It's from July
2004:


http://www.smihq.org/public/publicat..._outsource.pdf


Check the second paragraph. "Wages for telephone operators in India are often
less than $1 an hour."

The article also lists a number of legislative steps currently under
consideration to address the outsourcing issue.

Makes interesting reading.

Liberal Racist?
 

You sound like the people in the 1950's who were waging a war against
automation in the manufacturing sector, or in the 60's and 70's who were
waging a war against people who were losing jobs to computers, or going
back to the early 20th century, those in the buggy whip factories whose jobs
were replaced by those in the automotive industry.

The fact of the matter is if US companies do not do what is necessary to
insure that they are not completive with other countries (i.e. European,
Japan, Australia, Canada etc) it will result in substantially more US jobs
lost than we are currently losing. Is this unfair to those who lose their
jobs, definitely, but the alternative is substantially worse.

The US or any other country can not ignore the fact the rules have changed,
today we are in a world economy. Those industries and countries who adapt
will prosper. Those countries and industries who ignore that fact, will go
the way of the dodo bird.


wrote in message
nk.net...
Ok.. So it is 2496 hours a year
$3,000 dollars a year.

$1.20 per hour

Figuring a 48 hour work week:
An American just lost $14,198.08 at the federal minimum wage of $5.25 per
hour.

A skilled American just lost $27,040 at $10.00 per hour.

The company saved $11,198.08 or $24,040 for the skilled American, not
including the amount they would have been paying in matching taxes to the
United States Department of Social Security.

The United States Government looses Federal Income Taxes paid by the
employee, Social Security taxes paid by the employee, matching social
security taxes paid by the company.

The local government looses property taxes.

The state government looses state employment taxes, state sales taxes.

Looks like the Company is the winner in this while the rest of America
suffers.

Put the numbers to it, there is no way outsourcing jobs is good for the
American people.


"John Smith" wrote in message
news:DNUGc.39078$%_6.9986@attbi_s01...
India's Labor Laws, state that the maximum workday is 8 hrs a day and a
maximum workweek of 48 hrs. While smaller business using unskilled
labor,
do ignore those laws, the companies that involved in telephone support
do
not.




wrote in message
nk.net...
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in590004.shtml
On any given day in New Delhi and Bombay and Bangalore, the call goes
out
for new call center recruits as more and more American companies come
calling. The call center employees earn $3,000 to $5,000 a year, in a
nation
where the per capita income is less than $500. The perks include free
private transport to and from work plus the sheer heaven of an
air-conditioned workplace.

Now John, I know you are going to say that 3 grand a year does not
equal
1
dollar an hour, but you must remember the people there are reported to
work
12 hours a day 5 and 6 days a week.

5 days a week is 3120 hours a year
6 days a week is 3744 hours a year

An American, working a 40 hour work week at minimum wage of $5.25 per
hour
would make a gross salary of 10,920

"John Smith" wrote in message
news:hfHGc.36245$XM6.24561@attbi_s53...
Gould,
I am curious where you found the info on paying those in India $1 an
hour,
can you provide a link?


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
You think Dell's going to find people in Texas who
are fluent in English and will work for $5.75 per hour?

$1 per hour is the going rate for English speaking help in India
or
the
Phillipines.

'Course you can halfway live on $40 a week in some places. In
Texas,
that
40
bucks would fill your gas tank, buy you a six pack, and leave
enough
left
over
for a corn dog. Every week.

Liberal Racist?
 

Great! Then they should all do what Microsoft did (and may still do -
haven't called them in years): Farm it out to Ireland at certain times of
day. I used to get terrific responses from their tech support people.

"John Smith" wrote in message
news:1DUGc.39929$IQ4.24625@attbi_s02...
According to the BBC survey of telephone support by country, those based
in
the US provided the lowest quality. They rated those based in Europe as
having the best quality, and the rated India's quality in the middle.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

1) Your data does not change the basic idea behind what Gould said.
Those
people are still paid a LOT less than comparable workers here.

2) Their comparable purchasing power is not relevant to this discussion.
We're not talking about how bad we feel (or not) about their wages. The
point is that we're stuck with lousy service because American companies
are
unwilling to pay what it takes to provide complete and proper support.


"John Smith" wrote in message
news:zVTGc.37658$MB3.18218@attbi_s04...
Doug,

I think you missed the point of my posts, so often rumors and
incorrect
data
is transmitted as fact on the internet. According to the Times of
India,
they are on the verge of increasing the minimum wage from their
current
rate
of Rs 64.72/hr (or approx. $1.50/hr). According to those in the
Telephone
Service Industry promoting outsourcing of jobs, the average wage for
telephone service center operators is $2 to $3/hr which equals $4160 -
$6240
annual income, well above the average income in the US, when comparing
the
purchasing power of their income ( $2900 in India is equal to the
average
income in the US.)

So if you want your argument to carry weight it is best to use
accurate
info, instead of repeating rumors and incorrect data.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"John Smith" wrote in message
news:fbTGc.6642$WX.211@attbi_s51...
Gould,

Thanks for the suggestion, but I was hoping you would have
followed
up
on
some of the links yourself to see that they really do not pay call
center
employees $1 / hr.

Chuck has a job. You want a secretary? Hire one.

Liberal Racist?
 

Their knowledge is only part of the issue. If you can't understand them
because of their accent or poor telephone connection, then the service is
worth precisely ZERO.

"John Smith" wrote in message
news:PHUGc.39955$IQ4.22295@attbi_s02...
PS - According to Carnegie Mellon's Software Engineering Institute, the
quality of some of India's telephone support in the software field, is the
best in the world. They state that quality of support personnel is one of
the key factors for the export of jobs to India.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

1) Your data does not change the basic idea behind what Gould said.
Those
people are still paid a LOT less than comparable workers here.

2) Their comparable purchasing power is not relevant to this discussion.
We're not talking about how bad we feel (or not) about their wages. The
point is that we're stuck with lousy service because American companies
are
unwilling to pay what it takes to provide complete and proper support.


"John Smith" wrote in message
news:zVTGc.37658$MB3.18218@attbi_s04...
Doug,

I think you missed the point of my posts, so often rumors and
incorrect
data
is transmitted as fact on the internet. According to the Times of
India,
they are on the verge of increasing the minimum wage from their
current
rate
of Rs 64.72/hr (or approx. $1.50/hr). According to those in the
Telephone
Service Industry promoting outsourcing of jobs, the average wage for
telephone service center operators is $2 to $3/hr which equals $4160 -
$6240
annual income, well above the average income in the US, when comparing
the
purchasing power of their income ( $2900 in India is equal to the
average
income in the US.)

So if you want your argument to carry weight it is best to use
accurate
info, instead of repeating rumors and incorrect data.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"John Smith" wrote in message
news:fbTGc.6642$WX.211@attbi_s51...
Gould,

Thanks for the suggestion, but I was hoping you would have
followed
up
on
some of the links yourself to see that they really do not pay call
center
employees $1 / hr.

Chuck has a job. You want a secretary? Hire one.

Liberal Racist?
 

PS - According to Carnegie Mellon's Software Engineering Institute, the
quality of some of India's telephone support in the software field, is the
best in the world. They state that quality of support personnel is one of
the key factors for the export of jobs to India.

No doubt. They turn out 15 million college graduates a year in India, and most
speak
better English than Bubba the HS dropout.

A couple of decades ago, we were somewhat insulated from outsourcing because
even though overseas workers were willing to work for almost nothing, they
often didn't have the skills or education to compete with US workers. Their
training and education improved much faster than their demand for US dollars.
Oh oh.

Liberal Racist?
 

Gould 0738 wrote:

PS - According to Carnegie Mellon's Software Engineering Institute, the
quality of some of India's telephone support in the software field, is the
best in the world. They state that quality of support personnel is one of
the key factors for the export of jobs to India.

No doubt. They turn out 15 million college graduates a year in India, and most
speak
better English than Bubba the HS dropout.



A couple of times I nave to call Microsoft on a current software package
support issue. If I end up with someone in India, I know for sure I will
end up asking to be transferred to support personnel in the USA, and I
already have escalated MS support because of my role as a beta tester of
new releases. The support staffs in India simply do not know the system
software well enough to make suggestions that are not on their "Cliff
Notes." Add in the bad connections and the bad accents, and you end up
with little more than frustration.

I live and work in a major metro area, and interface every day with
computer folks, usually staffs running huge server systems with
thousands of desktops. None of them have anything good to say about
software support from India.

All it is is a way for corporations to milk more money out of us while
providing worse service.