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Liberal Racist?
Sir Spamalot wrote:
On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 18:16:27 -0400, Harry Krause wrote: Gould 0738 wrote: You think Dell's going to find people in Texas who are fluent in English and will work for $5.75 per hour? $1 per hour is the going rate for English speaking help in India or the Phillipines. 'Course you can halfway live on $40 a week in some places. In Texas, that 40 bucks would fill your gas tank, buy you a six pack, and leave enough left over for a corn dog. Every week. Are you kidding? You'd also be able to rent a cardboard box in which to live and buy bullets for your gun. I had a "delightful" encounter with two customer service women in the Phillipines today. Both of them lied to me when I asked where they were located, and tried to claim they were in the United States. They were in Manilla. Their English was awful, the phone connection was lousy, and the only "answers" they had came off a script. It's not their fault; I'm sure they were told to lie about their location, on pain of losing their crappy jobs. Well, more of my business they are not getting. I see no reason to pay premium prices for goods and services "backed up" by incompetent companies "offshore" who do it on the cheap and don't bother to hire decent help or provide the necessary training. There should be a backlash to this among Americans. It's really not a political issue, or it shouldn't be. Middle-class Anericans and those striving to reach the middle class should be absolutely opposed to the transfer of American jobs to ports of cheap labor. How many letters have you sent to the company, copying your senators/congressman/representatives/state senators at the same time? I bet none. As a matter of fact, I sent a hard copy paper letter off today to the CEO of that company, which is based in Maryland, and I cc'd the governor and my local US representative. The governor, however, is a Republican, and unlikely to give a tinker's dam, if it means interfering with a corporation's hiring practices. Further, I do whatever I can to encourage others I encounter in appropriate settings to dump companies who have moved their call centers to cheap labor markets and in the process cause Americans to lose their jobs. My contract with my cell carrier of about seven years is up, and I am not renewing, because it has moved its CS to India and since it has done that, the CS has gone right down the toilet. More and more health insurance companies are offshoring their claims departments. It is hard to imagine something worse than trying to deal with a human automaton in India who cannot deviate from the script of customer dissatisfaction. |
Liberal Racist?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in590004.shtml
On any given day in New Delhi and Bombay and Bangalore, the call goes out for new call center recruits as more and more American companies come calling. The call center employees earn $3,000 to $5,000 a year, in a nation where the per capita income is less than $500. The perks include free private transport to and from work plus the sheer heaven of an air-conditioned workplace. Now John, I know you are going to say that 3 grand a year does not equal 1 dollar an hour, but you must remember the people there are reported to work 12 hours a day 5 and 6 days a week. 5 days a week is 3120 hours a year 6 days a week is 3744 hours a year An American, working a 40 hour work week at minimum wage of $5.25 per hour would make a gross salary of 10,920 "John Smith" wrote in message news:hfHGc.36245$XM6.24561@attbi_s53... Gould, I am curious where you found the info on paying those in India $1 an hour, can you provide a link? "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... You think Dell's going to find people in Texas who are fluent in English and will work for $5.75 per hour? $1 per hour is the going rate for English speaking help in India or the Phillipines. 'Course you can halfway live on $40 a week in some places. In Texas, that 40 bucks would fill your gas tank, buy you a six pack, and leave enough left over for a corn dog. Every week. |
Liberal Racist?
FYI, AT&T's SC is in India.
Butch "Anonymous" wrote in message news:5G46YSZ238175.0286111111@anonymous... On Tue, 06 Jul 2004, "1900" wrote: Harry sez... I've got nuthin' against Indians, some of my best friends are Indians. That's a load of crap. Any body who resorts to that line is racist. Yeah, he is signing up with Cingular the new owners of AT&T. How stupid to get locked in to a contract with AT&T. They were the first "no contract" required cellular provider. Must have fallen for a gimmick. "Free? where do I sign?" I suppose he must have a cell phone on his lobster boat, eh? -=- This message was posted via two or more anonymous remailing services. |
Liberal Racist?
Butch Davis wrote:
FYI, AT&T's SC is in India. Butch "Anonymous" wrote in message news:5G46YSZ238175.0286111111@anonymous... On Tue, 06 Jul 2004, "1900" wrote: Harry sez... I've got nuthin' against Indians, some of my best friends are Indians. That's a load of crap. Any body who resorts to that line is racist. Yeah, he is signing up with Cingular the new owners of AT&T. How stupid to get locked in to a contract with AT&T. They were the first "no contract" required cellular provider. Must have fallen for a gimmick. "Free? where do I sign?" I suppose he must have a cell phone on his lobster boat, eh? -=- This message was posted via two or more anonymous remailing services. Indeed, the main ATT Wireless call center is in India. And, as I stated, I'm dropping ATT. It isn't ATT anyway...just another company that bought ATT's wireless some years ago. And, indeed, Cingular has an offer pending for what is called ATT Wireless. But I'm not going with Cingular. You know, there really isn't a top-drawer cell provider anymore. ATT used to be the best, when it was ATT. I've heard that Verizon is the "best of the rest," but it is only second-rate. |
Liberal Racist?
Personally, I use Sprint.. Never have had any problems with them and I get
great prices both for my cellular and for my home long distance. As a Sprint Cellular customer, I get unlimited long distance on my home phone for only 15 bucks a month.... Much better than the old 300 dollar phone bills! "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Butch Davis wrote: Indeed, the main ATT Wireless call center is in India. And, as I stated, I'm dropping ATT. It isn't ATT anyway...just another company that bought ATT's wireless some years ago. And, indeed, Cingular has an offer pending for what is called ATT Wireless. But I'm not going with Cingular. You know, there really isn't a top-drawer cell provider anymore. ATT used to be the best, when it was ATT. I've heard that Verizon is the "best of the rest," but it is only second-rate. |
Liberal Racist?
Gould,
Thanks for the suggestion, but I was hoping you would have followed up on some of the links yourself to see that they really do not pay call center employees $1 / hr. Yes, they do pay substantially less in India, ($2 to $3/hr level vs. $7.50/ hr in the Milwaukee area (salary estimates in 2002) (see below) but, according to someone who lives in India the purchasing power of a $1 in India is equal to $5 in the US, so in reality the $2 to $3 salary is actually equal to $10 to $15 of purchasing power, which seems much more believeable than the $1/hr range that people like to quote as a fact. From Prof. Webmasters: (I have a friend in Mumbai who says that 1 USD = 50 rs... but the purchasing power difference means that what we buy for $1 (a loaf of cheap bread?) really only costs 10 rs... So, $1USD = "$5 dollars" in terms of actual purchasing power. Therefore $10USD dollars an hour = $50 dollars of purchasing power over there. $15 = $75, $20 = $100 and so on. From Milwaukee Journal Sentinel an article concerning the problems of outsourcing: "Salaries in the Green Bay facility reportedly began at $7.50 an hour, compared with wages in India, where industry sources said $2 to $3 is the entry-level rate in that nation's burgeoning call-center sector" From Professional Webmaster Business Issues " I'm originally from India but currently living in the UK. wages for unskilled work in India are low. You can get a good full time gardener for $100 a month. BUT that doesn't apply to skilled programmers. You'll find that they charge less than their counterparts in the UK and the US but only about 20-30% less. Interpreting indian CVs can be tricky though, a problem I faced when I first came to the west and they didn't know what ICSE was (high school), didn't know how to appraise the grades I received at various stages in my education or what the value of some of my other qualifications were. Go by verifiable skills rather than certificates/qualifications (because it's still possible to buy the latter ;-)). Undead Hunter Full Member joined:Jan 6, 2003 posts: 157 msg #:5 5:20 pm on Aug 8, 2003 (utc 0) Hi Macro: I've had several companies quote me $20USD per hour - everything ranging from Flash to php/database solutions, with samples that look pretty decent. Several others are available on Elance, same rates. What rates are you seeing, then? Are you talking general web dev, or just Access as the first poster listed? bcolflesh Senior Member joined:Feb 21, 2003 posts: 1364 msg #:6 5:24 pm on Aug 8, 2003 (utc 0) BUT that doesn't apply to skilled programmers. My experience doesn't jibe with this - guys with cutting edge, enviable skillsets are making the lakhs in india, but it's comparable to $18,000 to $25,000 a year in the USA. Storyteller Full Member joined:May 3, 2003 posts:155 msg #:7 11:20 pm on Aug 9, 2003 (utc 0) I'm an offshore developer myself, and I've programmed a bit of MS Access for living (thank God, a long ago). I think Access skills aren't worth above $10/hour, no matter how solid. Access is heavily geared towards the low-skilled developer and one can become an expert in it in under a year. Not so with things like C++ or Perl, which can earn you $15-20/hour (but still hardly more). NeedScripts Senior Member joined:June 4, 2002 posts:621 msg #:8 11:49 pm on Aug 9, 2003 (utc 0) I am aware of lots of people in india who have done MCA (Masters of Computer Science) and working on a pay roll for Rs 10,000 or somewhere around it. The main reason that many programmer from india would like to charge like more than what they would make in a paycheck is: 1) Contract work is not secure enough for long run. Now if you were to show the person enough security and hire the person on paycheck for long run, I am sure you can get a *real good skilled programmer* for under US$ 700.00/month.. and if you want to be extra nice, than add another 300 bucks for each month and you got yourself a super nice programmer and hard worker. NS P.S. I am from india too. Macro Senior Member joined-July 31, 2003 posts:1098 msg #:9 5:16 pm on Aug 11, 2003 (utc 0) I bow to the wealth of experience others here have offered with respect to pay and going rates. Perhaps we overpaid, perhaps ours was a particularly awkward project. NeedScripts, the rates would vary widely. I'm sure you'll get someone just out of a basic NIIT course who'll be happy with Rs 10,000. Can you see someone just graduating from an IIT accepting that kind of money? I suppose my conclusion is that the rates could vary widely, which doesn't quite help johnser unfortunately. Now if you were to show the person enough security and hire the person on paycheck for long run I agree with that. Perhaps if you see the possibility of further development work it may be worth keeping him on the pay roll rather than agreeing a one-off fee. gopi Senior Member joined-Sept 10, 2001 posts:807 msg #:10 10:42 pm on Aug 12, 2003 (utc 0) Can you see someone just graduating from an IIT accepting that kind of money? IIT Graduates? - they all go work for wipro/infosys/ibm and endup settling in US after 2-3 years :) "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Gould, I am curious where you found the info on paying those in India $1 an hour, can you provide a link? Enter: $1 hour wages India in a search engine. I got 807 hits. Checking several of them establishes a common agreement that help line, warranty, and other customer service workers in India are earning $1 an hour, or in some cases less. Our local newspaper ran a series on outsourcing last winter, and the wage figure was mentioned repeatedly. It isn't possible for Americans to decide to work cheaply enough to compete. $2000 a year won't support *anybody* in the US. Programmers, tech writers, accountants, are next. Any job that can be done at a computer and the results sent in to a website from anywhere around the world will no longer be done in the US. Time to take up plumbing, auto mechanics, house painting, or some type of sales that can't be handled strictly over the telephone. Say hello the world economy. The great "equalizer". Those at the top will be brought down a peg or three (that would be working folks in NA), so that the poorest of the poor folk elsewhere can step up a little. If you're living in a mud hut in a 3rd world country, you may soon be slightly better off. If you own enough of any one of the companies making astronomical profits by paying almost nothing for wages, you will soon be better off as well. Everybody else, not so much. |
Liberal Racist?
"Harry Krause" wrote in message From what I have learned, the quality of cell service depends upon where you are in a provider's area, and what it is you are doing. Plus, as you mention below, the number and location of the cell towers. We have a similar problem regarding coverage, with Nextel. In our local and regional area we have a lot of dead areas, when you're not quite able to grab a cell. I suppose that results when one carrier has to lease tower space from another. Reputedly, Verizon coverage in this area is seamless. |
Liberal Racist?
PS - According to the CIA World Fact book, for someone in India to earn as
much purchasing power as the average worker in the US, they must earn $2900 per year. "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Gould, I am curious where you found the info on paying those in India $1 an hour, can you provide a link? Enter: $1 hour wages India in a search engine. I got 807 hits. Checking several of them establishes a common agreement that help line, warranty, and other customer service workers in India are earning $1 an hour, or in some cases less. Our local newspaper ran a series on outsourcing last winter, and the wage figure was mentioned repeatedly. It isn't possible for Americans to decide to work cheaply enough to compete. $2000 a year won't support *anybody* in the US. Programmers, tech writers, accountants, are next. Any job that can be done at a computer and the results sent in to a website from anywhere around the world will no longer be done in the US. Time to take up plumbing, auto mechanics, house painting, or some type of sales that can't be handled strictly over the telephone. Say hello the world economy. The great "equalizer". Those at the top will be brought down a peg or three (that would be working folks in NA), so that the poorest of the poor folk elsewhere can step up a little. If you're living in a mud hut in a 3rd world country, you may soon be slightly better off. If you own enough of any one of the companies making astronomical profits by paying almost nothing for wages, you will soon be better off as well. Everybody else, not so much. |
Liberal Racist?
"John Smith" wrote in message
news:fbTGc.6642$WX.211@attbi_s51... Gould, Thanks for the suggestion, but I was hoping you would have followed up on some of the links yourself to see that they really do not pay call center employees $1 / hr. Chuck has a job. You want a secretary? Hire one. |
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