On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 09:58:46 -0700, "Mr Wizzard"
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

So thats IT? - their contribution to the above was a "zero" ?
(how ironic). But joking aside, this is "good". Is there more?
I mean, what you spelled out here is important (and thats good),
but lets build on that - lets see why there hasn't been more.

How do you define "more"? If I look around at the array of
individuals who provide me and my family with health care, three of
the doctors, including my internist, are Muslim and are very good at
what they do. I work with a Iranian on occasion who has made some
very interesting and valuable contributions to quantum physics -
notably in the area of quantum foam.

It's like asking what Americans have contributed to the world - space
science? Mostly Jewish physicists and conscripted ex-Nazi German
rocketeers. Medicine, certainly, but so have individuals who were
French, German, Japanese and the first heart transplant was done by a
South African.

You can't define a society by what individuals accomplish as
individuals.

At some point we need to look at this, and understand why
they fell out of the game so long ago, and see what it will
take to get them back in to the game (if they want to).

The Arabs have always been assimilators (you will be assimilated -
snerk) and as their society adapted to the influences of other
cultures and systems, advances were made everywhere from China to
Britain. They were the main trading group of merchants and
entrepreneurs throughout the Middle East and beyond and spread these
different ideas around igniting the scientific/industrial and other
revolutions.

if they don't, we need to find out why, and what to do with
a self-destructive culture that doesn't (that happens to want
to take out the rest of the world). We've seen other despondent
and self-destructive cultures before, but one that wants to also
take out the other side is something we're not used to.
(Hitler didn't want to take "out" the world, he just wanted
to control it - very different).

I understand what you are saying and I appreciate that view, but to my
mind, societies evolve, devolve and evolve once more. Certainly, the
current situation isn't the best, but this is basically a tribal
conflict similar to any number of ethnic/tribal conflicts that
continue to infest world order and peace.

I'm not at all sure there is an answer.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 13:46:59 -0400, Harry Krause wrote:

Mr Wizzard wrote:

components. M.I. (Militant Islam) on the other
hand, has no such "strategy", as it is all driven
by a physiological/emotional thing, and not logic.




Ahh, I have it now. Christianity as practiced by conservative white
males in the United States is driven by logic, and not the emotional.

Harry, have you ever heard of the proverbial 'Christmas Goose"?

--
John H.
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 15:40:11 -0400, roadburner
roadburner^at^comcast^dot^net wrote:


Sorry about the signature mix up in my previous post.

roadburner is the name of the Tor server I operate as a public service.

~~ snip ~~

Very cool.

No problem.

"John H." wrote in message
...
On 12 Aug 2005 11:37:29 -0700, wrote:


Jack wrote:
I have never heard anyone say that they feel that all Muslims are
horrible.
The muslims just coincidently are involved in 29 armed conflicts at this
point. I know many muslims, and have no problem with them. Some in
their religion have kidnapped the religion in violence. Muslims need
to
do more to stop the extremists in their own religion.


wrote in message
ups.com...
http://tinyurl.com/cxbz9


You are right about militant Muslims. Same goes for Crusading
Christians and Zionist Jews. How the heck three religions that all
worship the same diety (the God of Abraham) can disagree and squabble
over everything so violently and incessantly is a wonder to behold.

Is that the new leftist mantra?

"Muslim terrorism is OK because the Christian Crusaders did it to them."

Go and read "Black Rednecks and Whit Liberals" by Thomas Sowell. It will
bring you back to reality as far as what is happening in the world today and
why.

Mr Wizzard wrote:
Coupla Q's:

What have muslims done to :
contrubute to the medical industry?
contribute to the Spaces Sciences ?
contribute to Environmental conservation?
contribute to agrricultural research ?
contribure to Internalional Food aid ?
contribute to Computer Science research ?
comtribute to religious tollerance ?
(i.e., can *I*, a white Amarican take
a vacation and visit Mecca?)

...'Nuff said.


Contributed to medical industry?

How about invented the concept of modern medicine in the first place?
An Arab medical text was *the* standard practice manual throughout
Europe and Asia for about 150 years and helped pull European doctors
out of the voo-doo heebie-jeebie blame it on evil-spirits dark ages.


Contributed to Space Science?

How about invented the concept of modern astronomy? Invented advanced
math?


Contributed to Environmental conservation? Does a few thousand years of
working with nature to renew and cultivate the fields in the Nile Delta
count?

Contributed to Computer Science? Would the invention of our numbering
system, as well as algebra and (that's an Arab word,al-gebra) other
advanced math concepts count?

Contributed to religious tolerance? Remember, the terrorists represent
mainstream Islam only as much as the KKK represents mainstream
Christianity. Both cite holy writ as justification for attacking and
murdering folks who don't conform to the small group supposedly
anointed by their screwed up version of God.

Mainstream Muslims regard Jews and Christians as "people of the Book,"
and believe that a devout Jew or a devout Christian can be admitted to
whatever sort of Paradisic Disneyland the Muslims imagine they will
inhabit after death. Muslims are taught, and the Quran demands, that
Jesus, Moses, and Abraham be honored and respected. The Quran calls
Jesus an anointed messenger from God. Sounds like a lot more "religious
tolerance" than you'll hear extended to Islam by many right wing
Americans these days.

In mainstream Islam, the term "infidel" is more exactly applied to
people who are not monotheists. Jews and Christians are only called
"infidels" by the most radical elements of Islam.

Google up "Jesus in the Quran". You might find it surprising.

Why were the Crusaders of the 10th and 11th Centuries called
"infidels"? Because many of them were. The Pope would call for a
crusade, and most of the land owners and rulers needed to at least give
lip service to Christianity to remain in power, but among the ranks of
footmen and other "grunts" there were a lot of folks still openly
following the Old Religion.

Yes, there are exhortations to violence in the Quran. Just as there are
exhortations to violence, murder, and even genocide in the Holy Bible.
(Check out the book of Joshua. If you say, "you have to take that it
context", I would ask "why we must take Joshua in context but then
insist on reading the Quran out of context?")

Any white American can vacation in a Muslim country, and many routinely
do. It's best not to act the fool while there, of course, and to
respect the tenents of the host culture just as one would when visiting
anywhere else. If one walks down the street drinking from an open beer
bottle, gooses the women walking by, and has a smut magazine rolled up
under one's arm there's going to be some serious trouble- but would
that be the fault of the Muslim society or the ignorance and arrogance
of the American visitor?

"nuff said"? :-)

Bert Robbins wrote:
"John H." wrote in message
...
On 12 Aug 2005 11:37:29 -0700, wrote:

Jack wrote:
I have never heard anyone say that they feel that all Muslims are
horrible.
The muslims just coincidently are involved in 29 armed conflicts at this
point. I know many muslims, and have no problem with them. Some in
their religion have kidnapped the religion in violence. Muslims need
to
do more to stop the extremists in their own religion.


wrote in message
ups.com...
http://tinyurl.com/cxbz9

You are right about militant Muslims. Same goes for Crusading
Christians and Zionist Jews. How the heck three religions that all
worship the same diety (the God of Abraham) can disagree and squabble
over everything so violently and incessantly is a wonder to behold.
Is that the new leftist mantra?

"Muslim terrorism is OK because the Christian Crusaders did it to them."

Go and read "Black Rednecks and Whit Liberals" by Thomas Sowell. It will
bring you back to reality as far as what is happening in the world today and
why.




Sowell is a GOP hack, and is as far removed from "what is happening" in
the world today as I am from breaking 80 on any regulation golf course.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:12:29 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Bert Robbins wrote:
"John H." wrote in message
...
On 12 Aug 2005 11:37:29 -0700, wrote:

Jack wrote:
I have never heard anyone say that they feel that all Muslims are
horrible.
The muslims just coincidently are involved in 29 armed conflicts at this
point. I know many muslims, and have no problem with them. Some in
their religion have kidnapped the religion in violence. Muslims need
to
do more to stop the extremists in their own religion.


wrote in message
ups.com...
http://tinyurl.com/cxbz9

You are right about militant Muslims. Same goes for Crusading
Christians and Zionist Jews. How the heck three religions that all
worship the same diety (the God of Abraham) can disagree and squabble
over everything so violently and incessantly is a wonder to behold.
Is that the new leftist mantra?

"Muslim terrorism is OK because the Christian Crusaders did it to them."

Go and read "Black Rednecks and Whit Liberals" by Thomas Sowell. It will
bring you back to reality as far as what is happening in the world today and
why.

Sowell is a GOP hack, and is as far removed from "what is happening" in
the world today as I am from breaking 80 on any regulation golf course.

No Harry, he is not.

Considering that most of his academic resume involves liberal
institutions and that he is a well respected and highly regarded
economist, hack is not a good description.

Sometimes you try too hard Harry.

Later,

Tom

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:12:29 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Bert Robbins wrote:
"John H." wrote in message
...
On 12 Aug 2005 11:37:29 -0700, wrote:

Jack wrote:
I have never heard anyone say that they feel that all Muslims are
horrible.
The muslims just coincidently are involved in 29 armed conflicts at this
point. I know many muslims, and have no problem with them. Some in
their religion have kidnapped the religion in violence. Muslims need
to
do more to stop the extremists in their own religion.


wrote in message
ups.com...
http://tinyurl.com/cxbz9

You are right about militant Muslims. Same goes for Crusading
Christians and Zionist Jews. How the heck three religions that all
worship the same diety (the God of Abraham) can disagree and squabble
over everything so violently and incessantly is a wonder to behold.
Is that the new leftist mantra?

"Muslim terrorism is OK because the Christian Crusaders did it to them."
Go and read "Black Rednecks and Whit Liberals" by Thomas Sowell. It will
bring you back to reality as far as what is happening in the world today and
why.
Sowell is a GOP hack, and is as far removed from "what is happening" in
the world today as I am from breaking 80 on any regulation golf course.

No Harry, he is not.

Considering that most of his academic resume involves liberal
institutions and that he is a well respected and highly regarded
economist, hack is not a good description.

Sometimes you try too hard Harry.

Later,

Tom



Please, Tom. Sowell is nothing more than an apologist for the right
wing, his credentials notwithstanding.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 19:00:45 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:12:29 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Bert Robbins wrote:
"John H." wrote in message
...
On 12 Aug 2005 11:37:29 -0700, wrote:

Jack wrote:
I have never heard anyone say that they feel that all Muslims are
horrible.
The muslims just coincidently are involved in 29 armed conflicts at this
point. I know many muslims, and have no problem with them. Some in
their religion have kidnapped the religion in violence. Muslims need
to
do more to stop the extremists in their own religion.


wrote in message
ups.com...
http://tinyurl.com/cxbz9

You are right about militant Muslims. Same goes for Crusading
Christians and Zionist Jews. How the heck three religions that all
worship the same diety (the God of Abraham) can disagree and squabble
over everything so violently and incessantly is a wonder to behold.
Is that the new leftist mantra?

"Muslim terrorism is OK because the Christian Crusaders did it to them."
Go and read "Black Rednecks and Whit Liberals" by Thomas Sowell. It will
bring you back to reality as far as what is happening in the world today and
why.
Sowell is a GOP hack, and is as far removed from "what is happening" in
the world today as I am from breaking 80 on any regulation golf course.

No Harry, he is not.

Considering that most of his academic resume involves liberal
institutions and that he is a well respected and highly regarded
economist, hack is not a good description.

Sometimes you try too hard Harry.

Please, Tom. Sowell is nothing more than an apologist for the right
wing, his credentials notwithstanding.

Nope - don't work that way.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Mr Wizzard wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...


Is the A.M.A., IEEE,
etc. etc. all "biased" media sources too??

There are many Muslim scientific contributors in the world, though many
have left their homelands.

Well **** dude, lay em on us here - show me the goods.
List em out right here. Start right here, and now :
1) _______ ?





Just
why *IS* it that companies ike Haliburton in an
Arab land is an issue in the FIRST place?

Because that is where they can get the best non-bid contracts.
er boy... This is gonna take longer that I thought.
Look, the notion was that "why do the Haliburtons,
and oil development, research, and refinerty consultants
even *exist* when so much of their income is Oil" ??






Why
IS it that (of all places) "France" has to come in
and build nulcear reactors in Iraq/Iran? What of
more basic things like manufacturing, and construction?
Why IS it that the "Germans" have to come in an
build concreate bunkers for Saddam Hussien ?
...I thought "Bin Ladan" was the construction king?
If you haven't noticed, and thus was the "message"
here, the Arabs (for what*ever* reason), have
fallen out humam advancement years ago, and
it has led to this mis-placed Ara fustration that
the world has come to know as "militant islam".

Well, I think you're wrong. These days, there are plenty of Muslims even
in their homelands making interesting scientific progress.

Humm, " interesting scientific progress" huh ?
What in IED's and roadside bombs? So list them:
1) ______ ?
2) ______ ?
....






And the Arab leader wanna-b's try to explain
this by a voo-doo religion as the reason/cause.


A voo-doo religion? You're quite the racist, eh.

"Race" ?? since when does Muslimism "describe"
ones "race" ?? Are they born Muslims ? Ca-mon
dude, yer killing me here..... Talk about Stereotypes,
hell, you fall face-first into this ****. Muslimism in
NOT a Race. Religion itSELF is not a "race". You
are falling for exactaly what they designed into this stuff.