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"John H" wrote in message
... Let's assume that it's something people normally want ALL the time, John. Coffee, shoes, whatever. Don't hand me junior high school economic theories. Well, if we assume the demand hasn't changed, and the supply has diminished, then prices will go up. In the case of oil, the demand has greatly increased over the past several years (almost as bad as outsourcing!). The junior high economic theories are, at least, rational. In case Fruitz pretends not to notice the question I just asked him, I'll ask you: Please indicate specifics as to WHERE you believe this increased demand is coming from. If you choose to repeat "China...", as others have, please provide data. |
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 16:28:07 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "John H" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 14:58:56 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "P. Fritz" wrote in message ... Black markets tend to develop when guvmints interfer with supply and demand..... A black market is just one example of an adjustment made in response to an unstable environment. War is another example of an unstable environment, and both have an effect on prices. Ask anyone who was an adult during the 2nd world war. In what way did they affect prices? Simple version: In response to shortages, the prices of such things as raw metal products and coffee increased. Now, the price of oil is increasing due to PERCEIVED stressors on the market. I say "perceived" because there is NO supply shortage, and the mythical demand you like to talk about is not enough to explain the drastic price increases over the past couple of years. China's mythical? -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 16:32:50 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "John H" wrote in message .. . Let's assume that it's something people normally want ALL the time, John. Coffee, shoes, whatever. Don't hand me junior high school economic theories. Well, if we assume the demand hasn't changed, and the supply has diminished, then prices will go up. In the case of oil, the demand has greatly increased over the past several years (almost as bad as outsourcing!). The junior high economic theories are, at least, rational. In case Fruitz pretends not to notice the question I just asked him, I'll ask you: Please indicate specifics as to WHERE you believe this increased demand is coming from. If you choose to repeat "China...", as others have, please provide data. "From: Suchita Vemuri Staff Writer 2005-02-24 02:27:38 Hi Joseph, China's oil demand has been growing at an average 7% since 1990, and while it's now the second largest oil consumer after the USA, its consumption in 2004 was around six million barrels per day, against a little over 20 in the USA. But if the current trend continues, China's consumption is expected to equal that of the USA by the mid-2020s." For stats and graphs go to: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/...&id=NAM&id=ASI Is this what you'd call 'mythical demand'? -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 16:32:50 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "John H" wrote in message .. . Let's assume that it's something people normally want ALL the time, John. Coffee, shoes, whatever. Don't hand me junior high school economic theories. Well, if we assume the demand hasn't changed, and the supply has diminished, then prices will go up. In the case of oil, the demand has greatly increased over the past several years (almost as bad as outsourcing!). The junior high economic theories are, at least, rational. In case Fruitz pretends not to notice the question I just asked him, I'll ask you: Please indicate specifics as to WHERE you believe this increased demand is coming from. If you choose to repeat "China...", as others have, please provide data. Chinese oil consumption has accounted for nearly 40 percent of the growth in global oil consumption since 2000. That rise in demand has come not from the growing number of cars on China's roads but from energy-hungry power plants and industrial boilers. Even if the country's economic growth slows, as many experts expect, the rapid pace of urbanization will continue increasing China's oil consumption, possibly doubling it within a decade. From: http://www.energybulletin.net/414.html Do you need more? -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 16:32:50 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "John H" wrote in message .. . Let's assume that it's something people normally want ALL the time, John. Coffee, shoes, whatever. Don't hand me junior high school economic theories. Well, if we assume the demand hasn't changed, and the supply has diminished, then prices will go up. In the case of oil, the demand has greatly increased over the past several years (almost as bad as outsourcing!). The junior high economic theories are, at least, rational. In case Fruitz pretends not to notice the question I just asked him, I'll ask you: Please indicate specifics as to WHERE you believe this increased demand is coming from. If you choose to repeat "China...", as others have, please provide data. Here's another, just in case you still believe in the 'mythical china' theory: "Yang isn't the only one made uncomfortable by his globetrotting. CNOOC's aggressive efforts to secure reliable supplies of oil and natural gas around the world reflect just how strong China's thirst for fossil fuels has become. Motorists bemoaning high prices at the pumps—oil rose to a record $55 a barrel on Oct. 15, up 65% this year—can with some justification point an accusatory finger toward the mainland. Its booming economy and burgeoning appetite for cars and other modern conveniences have caused energy demand to soar. China's oil imports doubled over the past five years and surged nearly 40% in the first half of 2004 alone. These increases vaulted the mainland ahead of Japan and into second place among the world's biggest oil consumers, behind only the U.S. Of course, there are numerous other factors driving the price of crude, among them supply hiccups caused by chaos in Iraq, political and economic turmoil in oil-producing nations such as Nigeria and Russia, hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico, and fears of terrorism. "It is neither fair nor accurate to blame China for most of the rise in oil prices," says Jeffrey Logan of the Paris-based International Energy Agency (IEA). But with oil in short supply—currently, producers are pumping just 1 million barrels more than the 81 million barrels being consumed worldwide every day—growing demand from China is clearly having an unwelcome impact. The country accounted for about one-third of the increase in world oil consumption this year, more than any other single nation." From: http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazi...725174,00.html Note, China's oil imports rose by 40% in the first *half* of 2004 alone! Now, perhaps you'll be so kind as to show me the data supporting the 'Bush deficit did it' theory. -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
"Doug Kanter" wrote: In case Fruitz pretends not to notice the question I just asked him, I'll ask you: Please indicate specifics as to WHERE you believe this increased demand is coming from. If you choose to repeat "China...", as others have, please provide data. Where have you been hiding, Kanter? Been in a cave the last few years? Here's just one of *dozens* of articles with the knowledge you seem to lack. Please educate yourself. http://www.earth-policy.org/Updates/Update45.htm Here's a quote: "With oil, the United States is still solidly in the lead with consumption triple that of China's-20.4 million barrels per day to 6.5 million barrels in 2004. But while oil use in the United States expanded by only 15 percent from 1994 to 2004, use in the new industrial giant more than doubled. Having recently eclipsed Japan as an oil consumer, China is now second only to the United States." China is waking up, they are hungry, and they are rapidly building their industrial machine. Their escalating economy is allowing China's "Joe Average" to own a car for the first time. How in the hell do you think they manage to make *everything* that Wal-Mart sells? By rubbing two sticks together? Sheeesh... Jack |
"Jack Goff" wrote in message m... "Doug Kanter" wrote: In case Fruitz pretends not to notice the question I just asked him, I'll ask you: Please indicate specifics as to WHERE you believe this increased demand is coming from. If you choose to repeat "China...", as others have, please provide data. Where have you been hiding, Kanter? Been in a cave the last few years? Here's just one of *dozens* of articles with the knowledge you seem to lack. Please educate yourself. http://www.earth-policy.org/Updates/Update45.htm Here's a quote: "With oil, the United States is still solidly in the lead with consumption triple that of China's-20.4 million barrels per day to 6.5 million barrels in 2004. But while oil use in the United States expanded by only 15 percent from 1994 to 2004, use in the new industrial giant more than doubled. Having recently eclipsed Japan as an oil consumer, China is now second only to the United States." China is waking up, they are hungry, and they are rapidly building their industrial machine. Their escalating economy is allowing China's "Joe Average" to own a car for the first time. How in the hell do you think they manage to make *everything* that Wal-Mart sells? By rubbing two sticks together? Sheeesh... Jack It is a double whammy. First the demand for oil for their production needs which in turn produces profits, wealth and the demand for cars where none previously existed. Their demand for gasoline alone will continue to increase at an amazing rate. From http://www.altassets.com/casefor/sec...005/nz6592.php " To date, China has only had 1.2 cars per 100 inhabitants. The corresponding figure for western industrial countries is over fifty. The growth anticipated in the automotive industry by all observers will result from the sharp rise in per capita income in the booming Chinese economy: if a mere 3.7 percent of all Chinese earned enough money to buy a car in 2002, the figure will reach 13 percent in 2010. In absolute terms, this implies a growth of today's 50 million potential buyers to more than 170 million. This stratum of the upwardly mobile is expected to lead to an increase in new car sales in China to 7 million vehicles by 2010, making China the second largest market for automobiles in the world and almost half as large as the US market. " But to some this is all Bush's fault. LOL! |
Jack Goff wrote:
Here's a quote: "With oil, the United States is still solidly in the lead with consumption triple that of China's-20.4 million barrels per day to 6.5 million barrels in 2004. But while oil use in the United States expanded by only 15 percent from 1994 to 2004, use in the new industrial giant more than doubled. Having recently eclipsed Japan as an oil consumer, China is now second only to the United States." China is waking up, they are hungry, and they are rapidly building their industrial machine. Their escalating economy is allowing China's "Joe Average" to own a car for the first time. How in the hell do you think they manage to make *everything* that Wal-Mart sells? By rubbing two sticks together? Sheeesh... Jack If every American trashed their gas guzzling SUV's and purchased a Honda Civic or smaller, that would make up for China's demand. |
"Don White" wrote in message ... Jack Goff wrote: Here's a quote: "With oil, the United States is still solidly in the lead with consumption triple that of China's-20.4 million barrels per day to 6.5 million barrels in 2004. But while oil use in the United States expanded by only 15 percent from 1994 to 2004, use in the new industrial giant more than doubled. Having recently eclipsed Japan as an oil consumer, China is now second only to the United States." China is waking up, they are hungry, and they are rapidly building their industrial machine. Their escalating economy is allowing China's "Joe Average" to own a car for the first time. How in the hell do you think they manage to make *everything* that Wal-Mart sells? By rubbing two sticks together? Sheeesh... Jack If every American trashed their gas guzzling SUV's and purchased a Honda Civic or smaller, that would make up for China's demand. What about you Canadians and your gas sucking vehicles? You can't make gas from HydroQuebec. |
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 19:18:33 GMT, Don White wrote:
Jack Goff wrote: Here's a quote: "With oil, the United States is still solidly in the lead with consumption triple that of China's-20.4 million barrels per day to 6.5 million barrels in 2004. But while oil use in the United States expanded by only 15 percent from 1994 to 2004, use in the new industrial giant more than doubled. Having recently eclipsed Japan as an oil consumer, China is now second only to the United States." China is waking up, they are hungry, and they are rapidly building their industrial machine. Their escalating economy is allowing China's "Joe Average" to own a car for the first time. How in the hell do you think they manage to make *everything* that Wal-Mart sells? By rubbing two sticks together? Sheeesh... Jack If every American trashed their gas guzzling SUV's and purchased a Honda Civic or smaller, that would make up for China's demand. Better let Harry do the talking, and you do the follow up. Works better that way. -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
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