Bush Blunders Taking a Toll
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
news:2g7l0sF5bg01U1@uni-

The deficiencies in leadership in this country go all the way to the
top. The buck stops on Bush's desk.

Typical. Irrelevant in the instance, but typical.

Bush Blunders Taking a Toll
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in Hmmmmm. I'll
have to see what I can find in the bookstore, novelwise, about Cleveland.

They had to stop selling it...put everyone to sleep.

Bush Blunders Taking a Toll
 

On Sun, 9 May 2004 17:00:02 -0400, "John Gaquin"
wrote:


"thunder" wrote in message

Look, I'll agree that the vast majority of our soldiers are doing an
admirable job, but this mess is still quite troubling. While failed
leadership has a role, and the training of these particular soldiers can
be brought in to question, I keep reading about these soldiers being asked
to "soften" the detainees for interrogation. If this is true, it is a
systemic failure that needs to be addressed.

I agree wholeheartedly. The assigned mission of the MP units was internment
and resettlement. There should be no mixing of this with intelligence and
interrogation functions. The MI units should conduct these procedures
exclusively, subject to the rules and procedures that apply to high value,
security, and intelligence detainees -- which may well include standard
procedures to yield more compliant interrogation. This is, after all, a
war, and not a job interview. Having said that, I don't think anything we
saw in the photos or have heard described in additional allegations is
considered acceptable procedure. It is worth reiterating that only those
small MP units whose functions got mixed with the intelligence units appear
to be involved with the prisoner abuse.

I would apply the following caveat: The Taguba report refers to "systemic
failures." When the term "systemic failure" is used in a report of this
kind, the meaning is that the command and oversight structure either failed
or was improperly organized from the start. When the term "systemic
failure" is used in news reports, it is done [intentionally, I believe]
knowing that the majority of readers/listeners will misinterpret it to mean
that the whole system is involved with the abuse, that the events are
occuring throughout the country. This simply is not true, but the news
sources make no effort to clarify this point. I refer particularly to
American and European news sources. I expect nothing but propaganda from
mid-east news sources, and to date have been neither disappointed nor
surprised.

Don't misunderstand my position. I do not defend the actions of these
soldiers with prisoners. I only want to stick to facts as we know them.
Right now the US press is ginning up a feeding frenzy, having found a
fissure in the Bush campaign. They would do well to remember that when
sharks go into a frenzy, it is common for several of the sharks to get eaten
in the chaos. The press must guard against a similar level of enthusiastic
accuracy.


FWIW, the European press and TV are not making near the spectacle of the
situation that the major US media are making. Even my friends in Holland thought
CNN, which shows over there, was going way overboard with the frequency of
airing the photographs.

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

Bush Blunders Taking a Toll
 

On Sun, 09 May 2004 19:26:08 -0400, John Gaquin wrote:


"thunder" wrote in message

The press is the press. With all it's failings, I question if any of
this would have come to light if it hadn't been for the press.

That's the conventional wisdom, and no one offers a correction. The fact
is that the allegations came from within the Army, the investigation was
launched by the Army, and the fact of the allegations and the
investigation was publicized by the Army in a press statement within days
of the allegations being made. The Army investigated and the report
started moving up the line, as is its wont, in April. The only reason the
press even noticed was because one of those nimrods was stupid enough to
post pictures on the web. Our press has effected some brilliant
investigative journalism over the years, but this ain't part of it.

Yeah, but, the Red Cross had repeatedly warned the Bush administration
about abuse for over a year. I'll agree this isn't great investigative
journalism, but if it weren't for the press, we wouldn't have known,
Congress wouldn't have known (or at least could have pretended not to
know), and Bush might not have seen the pictures.

Bush Blunders Taking a Toll
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
news:2g7lr6F5dsedU4@uni-
BTW, Dennis, caught two really plump flounder today over on the Eastern
Shore, right near the Choptank River. Only fished for about an hour,
went cruising in that area for most of the day. Michener wrote about the
area in a pretty good historical novel called "Chesapeake." Hmmmmm. I'll
have to see what I can find in the bookstore, novelwise, about Cleveland.

With your track record of making up stories to post in rec.boat, the odds
are you or the doctor doctor did not any fish. Tell us about your Hatteras
with a satellite modem and the Lobster Boat with get home power.

Bush Blunders Taking a Toll
 

jim-- wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

Harry Krause wrote:


jim-- wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
\



BTW, Dennis, caught two really plump flounder today over on the Eastern
Shore, right near the Choptank River. Only fished for about an hour,
went cruising in that area for most of the day. Michener wrote about the
area in a pretty good historical novel called "Chesapeake." Hmmmmm. I'll
have to see what I can find in the bookstore, novelwise, about Cleveland.


Good for you. I am happy for you.

Too bad you don't know about Cleveland. I will chalk it up to pure
ignorance on your part. But the town is far better off without the likes of
you.

It takes a real moron to try to insult someone based on the city they live
in. But then again, you are a moron so I would not expect anything
differently from you.




I've been to Cleveland. It suits you.

Bush Blunders Taking a Toll
 

John Gaquin wrote:

"thunder" wrote in message

The press is the press. With all it's failings, I question if any of this
would have come to light if it hadn't been for the press.


That's the conventional wisdom, and no one offers a correction. The fact is
that the allegations came from within the Army, the investigation was
launched by the Army, and the fact of the allegations and the investigation
was publicized by the Army in a press statement within days of the
allegations being made. The Army investigated and the report started moving
up the line, as is its wont, in April. The only reason the press even
noticed was because one of those nimrods was stupid enough to post pictures
on the web. Our press has effected some brilliant investigative journalism
over the years, but this ain't part of it.


\
The fact is that you and all the other pro-Bush asswipes would prefer a
state-controlled press.

Bush Blunders Taking a Toll
 

Don White wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in Hmmmmm. I'll

have to see what I can find in the bookstore, novelwise, about Cleveland.


They had to stop selling it...put everyone to sleep.




The best thing about Cleveland was George Szell.

Bush Blunders Taking a Toll
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
news:2g89qvF5bse6U3@uni-
\
The fact is that you and all the other pro-Bush asswipes would prefer a
state-controlled press.

Not at all; but I *would* prefer an objective and impartial press.

Bush Blunders Taking a Toll
 

On Mon, 10 May 2004 00:13:52 -0400, John Gaquin wrote:


Not at all; but I *would* prefer an objective and impartial press.

It's out there, mixed in with a non-objective and partial press.