Bush Blunders Taking a Toll
 

On Fri, 7 May 2004 16:14:31 -0400, "Bert Robbins"
wrote:

The eight years previous to Bush were pure hell!

Yeah, peace and prosperity is pure hell.

bb

Bush Blunders Taking a Toll
 

On Fri, 7 May 2004 13:18:22 -0400, "John Gaquin"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .

This 4 years of Bush Whitehouse has frankly been, PURE TORTURE! ;-)

Of course it has, you poor thing! :-( It must be horrible for you. For a
group that builds programs on feeling rather than thinking, losing a close
contest must be so painful! And now, having been attacked and being at war,
and knowing that, had your policies been followed, we would only be mired in
protracted, futile, humiliating and dystrophic "talks" through the UN with
the very parties who attacked us - well, I can certainly understand your
dyspeptic response! If only we Republicans were a more caring, sensitive,
and empathetic lot, we might be able to (as someone once said) "feel your
pain." ;-)


There is a difference between Patriotism and Hatriotism. You all
accuse Dems/Libs and basically everyone that disagrees with you of
being "Anti-American. Hating our troops blah blah". Im sick of this
sort of Hannity Hatriotism. You NeoCons seem to be belligerent with
nationalism to the point of being delusional and common sense eludes
you all. Your all Hatriots! You hide behind the flag and religion to
push your agenda rather than thinking. Many of you are Chickenhawks
and most likely the classroom tattletale growing up.

Have you watched the news the past 3 months? Do you realize how badly
this Administration dropped the ball on 911? Could not connect the
dots. Do you realize that the person/s responsible for this are still
at large? OBL? Remember him? Do you realize that most of our current
war efforts are still not fully justified? No WoMD? No definite links
to Al-Qaeda! I WAS NEVER SCARED OF SADDAM! Eeesh. Here we are 125
billion in the hole on a war we still have not fully justified to the
world and we need MORE MONEY! Lawrence Lindsey told the Whitehouse the
war would cost 200 million. HE GOT FIRED OVER THAT! Well looks like he
was right. Now the whole damn Arab world hates us. GREAT! BRILLIANT!
Had we "Stayed the Course" and stood our ground holding Al-Qaeda, OBL
and those responsible perhaps we would had WON support and respect
world wide. Instead we did exactly what OBL says the west wants to do.
Attack Arabs. Attack Islam. So now in Iraq with this mess and Torture
Scandal and no proven WoMD or Al-Qaeda links we have galvanized that
friggin argument. Evedently OBL is smarter than our Goverment. Our
actions go right with his please to the arabs and people of the middle
east. That we are attacking them. Had we put these efforts to hold
only the person accountable where would be today?

This administration is arrogant buncha buffoons. Like the only
argument i can hear Bush over Kerry is "Bush is decisive". I would
rather have a cautious waffler than someone who continually makes
quick bad decisions who appoints people that make quick bad decisions.
I'm going to take the lesser of the 2 evils. At least Bush Sr made
diplomacy work. Bush Jr has made it a Joke.

I cannot support this screwed up buncha right wing hatriot zealots.

Bush Blunders Taking a Toll
 

wrote in message

There is a difference between Patriotism and Hatriotism.

Oooo! Clever buzzword!


You all
accuse Dems/Libs and basically everyone that disagrees with you of
being "Anti-American. Hating our troops blah blah".

Quotes please. Of my posts. (Psssst -- You won't find any.)


Im sick of this
sort of Hannity Hatriotism.

There's that buzzword again. Good reinforcement.

You NeoCons seem to be.....

Who?

Your all Hatriots! You hide behind the flag.....

Now its starting to get boring.

.... Many of you are Chickenhawks

Don't park too far out on that limb, bucko. I have served, proudly. Have
you? I have been shot at in anger. Have you?

and most likely the classroom tattletale growing up.

A little psychology for the masses?


....this Administration dropped the ball on 911? Could not connect the
dots.

Nobody could.

.....war efforts are still not fully justified? No WoMD?

They were there. Now they're not. What does that tell you?

No definite links to Al-Qaeda!

What do you need, a notarized contract in triplicate? Only a fool thinks
there is no connection between Iraq and al Qaida.


....... Now the whole damn Arab world hates us.

That represents no substantial change from the status quo ante.


I would
rather have a cautious waffler .......

And that makes you a mainstream Democrat. This is the history of most of
the the past forty years in Congress. Identify the issues. Discuss the
issues. Debate the issues. Legislate the issues. Investigate the issues.
Subsidize the issues. Hold hearings on the issues. Publish reports on the
issues. Appoint "Blue Ribbon Commissions" on the issues. Perform every
maneuver in the book, but for God's sake don't SOLVE the issue!! Because
then you wouldn't OWN the issue any more, and you'd have to find some other
constituency to milk.

Pathetic.

Bush Blunders Taking a Toll
 

John Gaquin wrote:


wrote in message
...

This 4 years of Bush Whitehouse has frankly been, PURE TORTURE! ;-)

Of course it has, you poor thing! :-( It must be horrible for you. For a
group that builds programs on feeling rather than thinking, losing a close
contest must be so painful! And now, having been attacked

, By Al-Queada, get it, Al-Queada, a group led by a crimminal named Osama,
not Saddam.

and being at war,

War????, this is an act of aggression on a couple of third world, under
developed countries, using the excuse that they "still" had weapons of mass
distruction, we sold them, that never attacked us. This "WMD story"
continues to be an unproved theory. This isn't War. This is being "The
Bully". Our brave men and women are dying to prove we can be a Bully.
There's something wrong with this picture. If they want democracy, show them
that it can work here first.

and knowing that, had your policies been followed, we would only be
mired in protracted, futile, humiliating and dystrophic "talks" through
the UN with the very parties who attacked us

Al-Queada???, Al-Queada???, You know, I don't recall them having a seat in
the UN.

- well, I can certainly understand your
dyspeptic response!

The lies are enough to make "me" sick.

If only we Republicans were a more caring, sensitive,
and empathetic lot, we might be able to (as someone once said) "feel your
pain." ;-)

You must believe if you repeat something enough times, it will become the
truth, but it won't.
This is all the time I will alot to these lies.

_______m___õ¿~___m_________________________
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take,
but by the moments that take our breath away".
--George Carlin--

Bush Blunders Taking a Toll
 

On Fri, 7 May 2004 18:48:36 -0400, "John Gaquin"
wrote:



And that makes you a mainstream Democrat. This is the history of most of
the the past forty years in Congress. Identify the issues. Discuss the
issues. Debate the issues. Legislate the issues. Investigate the issues.
Subsidize the issues. Hold hearings on the issues. Publish reports on the
issues. Appoint "Blue Ribbon Commissions" on the issues. Perform every
maneuver in the book, but for God's sake don't SOLVE the issue!! Because
then you wouldn't OWN the issue any more, and you'd have to find some other
constituency to milk.

Pathetic.


It's all Clintons fault is the mindset from the WH and Bushies these
days. Seems we have a hard time getting this WH to own any issues
also. Strange how that works.

Pitiful!

Bush Blunders Taking a Toll
 

From: bb

The eight years previous to Bush were pure hell!

Yeah, peace and prosperity is pure hell.

bb

Clinton...
went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent, Bosnia never attacked
us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan
and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

Peace, definitely peace. Don't forget the 93 World Trade Center bombing under
Clintons watch. Peace you say. Perhaps relatively speaking you are correct.

Bush Blunders Taking a Toll
 

"____m___~¿Ô___m____" wrote in message

ref my earlier post re your credibility.

Bush Blunders Taking a Toll
 

John Gaquin wrote:


"____m___~¿Ô___m____" wrote in message

ref my earlier post re your credibility.
You mean your denial. I only answered your post that had no credibility.
--
_______m___õ¿~___m_________________________
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take,
but by the moments that take our breath away".
--George Carlin--

Bush Blunders Taking a Toll
 

John Gaquin wrote:
"____m___~¿Ô___m____" wrote in message

ref my earlier post re your credibility.


According to Rumsfeld, we haven't seen the worst acts of torture and
degradation inflicted by US soldiers on Iraqi prisoners.

Stick that up your denials, Gaquin.

Bush Blunders Taking a Toll
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
news:2g3qjoF450haU1@uni-


According to Rumsfeld, we haven't seen the worst acts of torture and
degradation inflicted by US soldiers on Iraqi prisoners.

Stick that up your denials, Gaquin.

Crude response, but not atypical, Harry.

Actually, if you read carefully you'll find that what Rumsfeld actually said
is that there are more photos and tapes of the crimes already committed at
abu Ghraib that are already the subject of reports and investigation. Of
course, this in no way ameliorates the situation, but nor does it exacerbate
it. Taking one hundred pictures of a train wreck instead of fifteen
pictures does not mean there were more train wrecks. But it does mean that
those who don't pay attention can be made to think that there were more
train wrecks, if someone wants to convince them of that.

If you also read the Taguba report, two things are clear.

1) The leadership, training, and command oversight within the 800 MP Brigade
was seriously deficient. The Brigade in general was ill prepared for its
responsibilities in Iraq. This, however, does not cause wanton prisoner
abuse. The Taguba report specifically references a number of units and
individuals within the 800th that overcame the challenges and performed in
an exemplary fashion. I have not seen this mentioned in any press coverage.

2) The 800th MP Brigade comprised some 8 MP Battalions. Both prisoner
abuse events -- the Oct-Nov multiple incidents at abu Ghraib and the May
2003 incident at Camp Bucca (for which 4 soldiers have already been charged
and, I think, tried)-- involved members of the same unit, the 320th MP
Battalion. All MP soldiers involved in the abu Ghraib incidents were from a
smaller group within the 320th, members of the 372nd MP Co. All prisoner
abuse actions appear to have occurred involving MP soldiers operating in
conjunction military intelligence operatives, specifically from the 205th MI
Brigade.

The press gives little or no attention to the fact that the abuses in
question were initially reported by soldiers within the very units, and that
the command initiated investigations immediately. The command
simultaneously issued a public press release stating that they were
investigating allegations of prisoner abuse. There was no cover-up here,
although one is widely implied in the press coverage.

When the report is read and all is said and done, you still have what I
referred to earlier -- a few dozen people drawn into the maelstrom, while
99.9% behave honorably and well. Will that change with possible additional
revelations? Possibly. The Red Cross report is an unknown factor, until
they release details. The IRC has been known to define both beatings and
slow mail delivery as prisoner abuse. They sometimes seem to start with the
premise that there is presumed abuse by virtue of incarceration, and grade
downward from there. But if you have ten times the troop abuse involvement
in Iraq, it will remain a statistical aberration. A political and PR
bonanza for the press and the DNC, who have been hoping for just such an
event, but a statistical aberration nonetheless. Those who deal in facts
instead of feelings can see this.