"Harry Krause" wrote in message

....his words seemed to have done little to stem a chorus of complaints
across
the globe

A chorus being led, ironically, by the NYT and the Dems in US Congress.....


*"In the world the United States has a moral and political leadership,"
said Alioune Tine,


There you have it.

This whole brouhaha is preposterous. The event itself is totally
unacceptable, and the people involved should be imprisoned, for rank
stupidity if nothing else. Pictures? On the net? Please!

The international press furor is naught but a political red herring. The
fact of a few dozen Americans behaving this way has supposedly shocked the
world. Why? Because our two centuries of history have documented and
confirmed the fact that this is not the way the US of A does business. The
world *expects* the US to hold the high road, and act with fairness and
dignity. They expect it because we have repeatedly shown that that is what
we do.

On the other hand, I have heard no sustained fury or condemnation from the
world press, or (for that matter) from the leadership of the Islamic and/or
Arabic communities anywhere in the world, regarding the treatment of
prisoners in similar venues throughout the Islamic world, or regarding the
murder of innocents in the name of jihad. Why? Because almost two
*millenia* of history has shown that this is the way that *they* do
business. The world, and their own communities, *expect* Arabic and Islamic
cultures to treat prisoners in a brutal and subhuman manner. They expect it
because these cultures have repeatedly shown that this is what they do.
This sort of thing is expected from Arabic or Islamic cultures, so when it
occurs there no one is substantially surprised.

To claim that the Islamic world is infuriated by these events is to be naive
in the extreme. ( Did you note the Iraqi protesters on the news? See those
nice placards they were holding? Well printed, in good, legible English?
Think they whipped them up at home?) They expect political or military
prisoners to be treated this way. Nota bene that in these cultures [as
throughout most of the rest of the world] the notion of a "political
prisoner" is not considered unusual. That in itself speaks volumes. The
Islamic world is not infuriated by these events -- they rejoice in the
political opportunity the event presents them, and generally do not care a
whit for the prisoners involved.

On Fri, 7 May 2004 09:37:15 -0400, "John Gaquin"
wrote:


On the other hand, I have heard no sustained fury or condemnation from the
world press, or (for that matter) from the leadership of the Islamic and/or
Arabic communities anywhere in the world, regarding the treatment of
prisoners in similar venues throughout the Islamic world, or regarding the
murder of innocents in the name of jihad. Why? Because almost two
*millenia* of history has shown that this is the way that *they* do
business. The world, and their own communities, *expect* Arabic and Islamic
cultures to treat prisoners in a brutal and subhuman manner. They expect it
because these cultures have repeatedly shown that this is what they do.
This sort of thing is expected from Arabic or Islamic cultures, so when it
occurs there no one is substantially surprised.

So Bush has brought us down to the level of Saddam and his ilk, and
you and your kind think this is a good thing. I for one have never
cared for Bush and his clan, but this is a new low for even them.
Unfortunately, there's a long climb back up to the high road, but then
again, there's a very long road back to fiscal responsibility. The
damage Bush and his henchmen have done to this country will probably
never be undone.

bb

"bb" wrote in message

So Bush has brought us down to the level of Saddam and his ilk, and
you and your kind think this is a good thing.

Either you deliberately misrepresent my words for your own purposes, or you
really ought to work on your reading comprehension skills. There are no
other alternatives presented by your response. Are you dull enough to think
your fraud will go unnoticed?

The events are very significant in a humanitarian sense. Politically very
significant. Very significant from a management perspective in that there
ought never be an opportunity for a few dozen maladjusted whack jobs to
jeopardize the strategic position of the entire nation. But the fact is
that the sort of behavior depicted in the prison photos remains, for the USA
as a matter of policy, a statistically insignificant aberration. This is
spit in a hurricane.

"John Gaquin" wrote in message ...
"bb" wrote in message

So Bush has brought us down to the level of Saddam and his ilk, and
you and your kind think this is a good thing.

Either you deliberately misrepresent my words for your own purposes, or you
really ought to work on your reading comprehension skills. There are no
other alternatives presented by your response. Are you dull enough to think
your fraud will go unnoticed?

The events are very significant in a humanitarian sense. Politically very
significant. Very significant from a management perspective in that there
ought never be an opportunity for a few dozen maladjusted whack jobs to
jeopardize the strategic position of the entire nation. But the fact is
that the sort of behavior depicted in the prison photos remains, for the USA
as a matter of policy, a statistically insignificant aberration. This is
spit in a hurricane.

Do you think that, seeing how today's take on things are that OUR
government knew, and covered up these atrocities for over a year?

"basskisser" wrote in message

.....today's take on things are that OUR
government knew, and covered up these atrocities for over a year?

Over a year. Hmmm. So, I guess we started abusing Iraqi prisoners before
we arrived in Iraq. Yes, now I understand.

A chorus being led, ironically, by the NYT and the Dems in US Congress.....

Nah.

Interrupting political silence for a rare, pro-Bush comment from Gould.

I fully expected GWB to minimize, obfuscate, deny, and otherwise hide from the
situation. My expectations wouldn't have been derailed if the Bush team tried
to spin some way to blame one of John Kerry's 1995 defense budget votes as the
root cause of the racist, trailer trash, sadistic sexual torture of Iraqi
prisoners.

For maybe the second or third time in over three years, I was wrong about Bush.

Accepting (US) responsiblity for the murders and torture and making a public
apology is one of the few truly presidential
actions of GWB's career. In my opinion.

Hats off to Bush for handling this in an admirable manner. His job approval
rating just tripled in my book: I think he's up to 15% now. :-)

But then again I'm not a Democrat, and I don't write for the NYT.

(Gould 0738) wrote in message ...
A chorus being led, ironically, by the NYT and the Dems in US Congress.....

Nah.

Interrupting political silence for a rare, pro-Bush comment from Gould.

I fully expected GWB to minimize, obfuscate, deny, and otherwise hide from the
situation. My expectations wouldn't have been derailed if the Bush team tried
to spin some way to blame one of John Kerry's 1995 defense budget votes as the
root cause of the racist, trailer trash, sadistic sexual torture of Iraqi
prisoners.

For maybe the second or third time in over three years, I was wrong about Bush.

Accepting (US) responsiblity for the murders and torture and making a public
apology is one of the few truly presidential
actions of GWB's career. In my opinion.

Hats off to Bush for handling this in an admirable manner. His job approval
rating just tripled in my book: I think he's up to 15% now. :-)

But then again I'm not a Democrat, and I don't write for the NYT.

I seriously doubt Bush had any intentions of apologizing for the
treatment of Iraqi prisoners, UNTIL the media made a deal out of it,
saying he wouldn't, etc. His handlers probably then told him that he
needs to give an apology.

This 4 years of Bush Whitehouse has frankly been, PURE TORTURE! ;-)


On Fri, 7 May 2004 09:37:15 -0400, "John Gaquin"
wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message

....his words seemed to have done little to stem a chorus of complaints
across
the globe

A chorus being led, ironically, by the NYT and the Dems in US Congress.....


*"In the world the United States has a moral and political leadership,"
said Alioune Tine,


There you have it.

This whole brouhaha is preposterous. The event itself is totally
unacceptable, and the people involved should be imprisoned, for rank
stupidity if nothing else. Pictures? On the net? Please!

The international press furor is naught but a political red herring. The
fact of a few dozen Americans behaving this way has supposedly shocked the
world. Why? Because our two centuries of history have documented and
confirmed the fact that this is not the way the US of A does business. The
world *expects* the US to hold the high road, and act with fairness and
dignity. They expect it because we have repeatedly shown that that is what
we do.

On the other hand, I have heard no sustained fury or condemnation from the
world press, or (for that matter) from the leadership of the Islamic and/or
Arabic communities anywhere in the world, regarding the treatment of
prisoners in similar venues throughout the Islamic world, or regarding the
murder of innocents in the name of jihad. Why? Because almost two
*millenia* of history has shown that this is the way that *they* do
business. The world, and their own communities, *expect* Arabic and Islamic
cultures to treat prisoners in a brutal and subhuman manner. They expect it
because these cultures have repeatedly shown that this is what they do.
This sort of thing is expected from Arabic or Islamic cultures, so when it
occurs there no one is substantially surprised.

To claim that the Islamic world is infuriated by these events is to be naive
in the extreme. ( Did you note the Iraqi protesters on the news? See those
nice placards they were holding? Well printed, in good, legible English?
Think they whipped them up at home?) They expect political or military
prisoners to be treated this way. Nota bene that in these cultures [as
throughout most of the rest of the world] the notion of a "political
prisoner" is not considered unusual. That in itself speaks volumes. The
Islamic world is not infuriated by these events -- they rejoice in the
political opportunity the event presents them, and generally do not care a
whit for the prisoners involved.

wrote in message
...

This 4 years of Bush Whitehouse has frankly been, PURE TORTURE! ;-)

Of course it has, you poor thing! :-( It must be horrible for you. For a
group that builds programs on feeling rather than thinking, losing a close
contest must be so painful! And now, having been attacked and being at war,
and knowing that, had your policies been followed, we would only be mired in
protracted, futile, humiliating and dystrophic "talks" through the UN with
the very parties who attacked us - well, I can certainly understand your
dyspeptic response! If only we Republicans were a more caring, sensitive,
and empathetic lot, we might be able to (as someone once said) "feel your
pain." ;-)

On Fri, 7 May 2004 13:18:22 -0400, "John Gaquin"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .

This 4 years of Bush Whitehouse has frankly been, PURE TORTURE! ;-)

Of course it has, you poor thing! :-( It must be horrible for you. For a
group that builds programs on feeling rather than thinking, losing a close
contest must be so painful! And now, having been attacked and being at war,
and knowing that, had your policies been followed, we would only be mired in
protracted, futile, humiliating and dystrophic "talks" through the UN with
the very parties who attacked us - well, I can certainly understand your
dyspeptic response! If only we Republicans were a more caring, sensitive,
and empathetic lot, we might be able to (as someone once said) "feel your
pain." ;-)


There is a difference between Patriotism and Hatriotism. You all
accuse Dems/Libs and basically everyone that disagrees with you of
being "Anti-American. Hating our troops blah blah". Im sick of this
sort of Hannity Hatriotism. You NeoCons seem to be belligerent with
nationalism to the point of being delusional and common sense eludes
you all. Your all Hatriots! You hide behind the flag and religion to
push your agenda rather than thinking. Many of you are Chickenhawks
and most likely the classroom tattletale growing up.

Have you watched the news the past 3 months? Do you realize how badly
this Administration dropped the ball on 911? Could not connect the
dots. Do you realize that the person/s responsible for this are still
at large? OBL? Remember him? Do you realize that most of our current
war efforts are still not fully justified? No WoMD? No definite links
to Al-Qaeda! I WAS NEVER SCARED OF SADDAM! Eeesh. Here we are 125
billion in the hole on a war we still have not fully justified to the
world and we need MORE MONEY! Lawrence Lindsey told the Whitehouse the
war would cost 200 million. HE GOT FIRED OVER THAT! Well looks like he
was right. Now the whole damn Arab world hates us. GREAT! BRILLIANT!
Had we "Stayed the Course" and stood our ground holding Al-Qaeda, OBL
and those responsible perhaps we would had WON support and respect
world wide. Instead we did exactly what OBL says the west wants to do.
Attack Arabs. Attack Islam. So now in Iraq with this mess and Torture
Scandal and no proven WoMD or Al-Qaeda links we have galvanized that
friggin argument. Evedently OBL is smarter than our Goverment. Our
actions go right with his please to the arabs and people of the middle
east. That we are attacking them. Had we put these efforts to hold
only the person accountable where would be today?

This administration is arrogant buncha buffoons. Like the only
argument i can hear Bush over Kerry is "Bush is decisive". I would
rather have a cautious waffler than someone who continually makes
quick bad decisions who appoints people that make quick bad decisions.
I'm going to take the lesser of the 2 evils. At least Bush Sr made
diplomacy work. Bush Jr has made it a Joke.

I cannot support this screwed up buncha right wing hatriot zealots.