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( OT) Kerry Military Records
"Don" wrote in message ...
"basskisser" wrote in message om... "Joe" wrote in message .. . wrote in message ink.net... I beg your pardon Joe. Being a full blood Cherokee, I take pride in the fact that my people are "Native" to this land. After all, there is no definitive proof that my people ever came from any other location on this or any other planet. There's plenty of evidence that the Indians migrated from Asia. You can choose to believe it, or not. Well, every human being migrated from somewhere, at some time. Nope. I was born in the US, I am native. Earliest humanoid remains have been found in Africa, therefore, you're African. |
( OT) Kerry Military Records
"Calif Bill" wrote in message link.net...
"basskisser" wrote in message om... "Calif Bill" wrote in message news:C_Sjc.16326 My relatives were smarter. They immigrated to New Haven, Conn. In the mid 1600's. Avoided that burning stench. Bill I love it! No matter what anybody says about anything, you'll chime in about how smart you and your family are! I've proven you wrong on several occasions, so that must make me genius. You've never proved anybody wrong. Hmm, how much does concrete weigh, Bill? Care to have that one googled up? I have plenty more. |
( OT) Kerry Military Records
"Calif Bill" wrote in message link.net...
"basskisser" wrote in message om... "Calif Bill" wrote in message news:C_Sjc.16326 My relatives were smarter. They immigrated to New Haven, Conn. In the mid 1600's. Avoided that burning stench. Bill I love it! No matter what anybody says about anything, you'll chime in about how smart you and your family are! I've proven you wrong on several occasions, so that must make me genius. You've never proved anybody wrong. It's PROVEN. Wrong again. |
( OT) Kerry Military Records
"basskisser" wrote in message om... "Calif Bill" wrote in message link.net... "basskisser" wrote in message om... "Calif Bill" wrote in message news:C_Sjc.16326 My relatives were smarter. They immigrated to New Haven, Conn. In the mid 1600's. Avoided that burning stench. Bill I love it! No matter what anybody says about anything, you'll chime in about how smart you and your family are! I've proven you wrong on several occasions, so that must make me genius. You've never proved anybody wrong. It's PROVEN. Wrong again. You are one insecure person 'Asskisser. |
( OT) Kerry Military Records
"Don" wrote in message
... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Don" wrote in message ... All of my family, from the 1800's forward, have been born and raised in the US. How is this relevent to anything? Well, your comment about diversity probably doesn't come from ideas or feelings which exist in a vacuum, right? I keep seeing where diversity is a good thing, but I have yet to see a reason why. Can you say why diversity is a good thing? This might be a bit abstract, or reflect what *I* find valuable, but here goes: I don't know how old you are, but as you advance in age, you'll notice more and more how many things in your history textbooks were distorted, biased, or just plain missing. People are also biased, but even so, there's immense value in speaking to people who've lived through things you haven't. If you were ever fascinated by stories heard from your grandparents, it's because their stories seem like they describe another world, even though they may have grown up in this country. It follows logically that it should be interesting to speak to someone who experienced las limpiezas ("cleansings") in Colombia, or life in Moscow in the 1960s. These stories would make you a better citizen. They'd enable you to see through the bull**** put forth by politicians who give us nothing but pablum, like commercials. I am 49 Doug, and I agree with everything you said above, but, it has nothing to do with the question. Why is diversity a good thing? 1) Because it exposes you to different types of people. Our leaders make policy based on myths much of the time. They give us the impression that other cultures are in direct conflict with ours, when much of the time, that's dead wrong. If you can't afford to travel overseas, how will you ever meet people from these cultures, and find out that they just want to live a peaceful life like everyone else? 2) Because this country has a few large "mindsets" which wield too much voting power. The Christian right comes to mind first. Even if they never manage to enact laws based on their lunacy, they *do* manipulate our legislators into wasting enormous amounts of time debating the lunacy. That affects all of us. Diversity serves to add variety to voting habits, which is why (Cubans in Florida aside), politicians still haven't figured out how Hispanic citizens vote. 3) Because according to "The Economist" (magazine), money sent home by immigrants dwarfs the foreign aid sent to many countries by our government. That's a good thing, if you think about it. 4) Because immigrants usually know the REAL definition of trouble. Usually, it's genocide or war or some such annoyance. This is in sharp contrast to what many Americans consider a disaster, like J. Crew running out of khakis, or "American Idol" being preempted by a news conference about the president's dog being pregnant. In other words, diversity helps us realize how good we've got it. That enables more people to shut the **** up already about minutia and deal with REAL problems, like our refusal to take the blame for our oil addiction or the fact that we throw away enough food every day to feed half of Africa. 5) Because real Mexican food is nothing like the bull**** served by chain restaurants. We need real Mexicans. |
( OT) Kerry Military Records
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Don" wrote in message ... "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Don" wrote in message ... "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Don" wrote in message ... "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Don" wrote in message ... All of my family, from the 1800's forward, have been born and raised in the US. I see that you are new to this land. Welcome. I bet you are newer. Some of us came over on the first boat and others a few years later. One side of the family had a problem in Salem, Mass. a few years ago and they moved north. What boat did you come over on? The Mayflower. So you're more than 500 years old, eh? No, just shy of 400 years old. In other words, you're just a mongrel. And a disingenuous one at that. |
( OT) Kerry Military Records
"Doug Kanter" wrote
"Don" wrote Why is diversity a good thing? 1) Because it exposes you to different types of people. shred Well, duh. But you still haven't explained WHY that is a good thing. |
( OT) Kerry Military Records
"basskisser" wrote
"Don" wrote "basskisser" wrote Well, every human being migrated from somewhere, at some time. Nope. I was born in the US, I am native. Earliest humanoid remains have been found in Africa, therefore, you're African. Nope. I have never been to Africa. I was born in the US, I am a native. |
( OT) Kerry Military Records
"Don" wrote in message
... "Doug Kanter" wrote "Don" wrote Why is diversity a good thing? 1) Because it exposes you to different types of people. shred Well, duh. But you still haven't explained WHY that is a good thing. Au contraire. I have offered several reasons, although certainly not all. |
( OT) Kerry Military Records
"Don" wrote in message
... "basskisser" wrote "Don" wrote "basskisser" wrote Well, every human being migrated from somewhere, at some time. Nope. I was born in the US, I am native. Earliest humanoid remains have been found in Africa, therefore, you're African. Nope. I have never been to Africa. I was born in the US, I am a native. Take us back to the first generation of your ancestors who touched this soil. Where were THEIR grandparents from? |
( OT) Kerry Military Records
Harry,
I think you and Don are two peas in a pod. "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Don wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Don wrote: "John Smith" wrote in message news:9FHic.25624$w96.1927586@attbi_s54... I didn't think it was possible for someone to be dumber than Basskisser, but Don has done it. Be careful not to take anything of his, because the law requires him to shot you in the face. Most children learn the difference between *shoot* and *shot* when they are about 8 years old. What's your excuse? Most of the righties here have low-level language skills. It's part of being a card-carrying RepubliBORG. sigh It's not a matter of right or left. It's a matter of *belonging*. Many people today find it stylish to *belong* to one group or another, because they have no self esteem. They realize they are worthless and cling deperately to any kind of identity that will offer them some semblence of emotional support. They have no sense of self identity, no self worth. I'm not sure your posit conflicts with mine. Most of the RepubliBORG who post here have poor written language skills. Or are you saying that writing as if one were nearly functionally illiterate helps one identify with Bush... |
( OT) Kerry Military Records
Did you swallow a used condom?
"John Smith" wrote in message news:BGDkc.1892$_41.83598@attbi_s02... Harry, I think you and Don are two peas in a pod. |
( OT) Kerry Military Records
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Don" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote "Don" wrote Why is diversity a good thing? 1) Because it exposes you to different types of people. shred Well, duh. But you still haven't explained WHY that is a good thing. Au contraire. I have offered several reasons, although certainly not all. You explained why *being exposed to different types of people* is a good thing? |
( OT) Kerry Military Records
"Doug Kanter" wrote
"Don" wrote "basskisser" wrote "Don" wrote "basskisser" wrote Well, every human being migrated from somewhere, at some time. Nope. I was born in the US, I am native. Earliest humanoid remains have been found in Africa, therefore, you're African. Nope. I have never been to Africa. I was born in the US, I am a native. Take us back to the first generation of your ancestors who touched this soil. Where were THEIR grandparents from? How is that relevent to, well, anything at all? They are all dead. I, however, was born here in the US and am a native. Aren't you? |
( OT) Kerry Military Records
Why is diversity a good thing?
************************** We interupt the political crap fight for the following philosophical opinion. The value of diversity: The simplest forms of life can often perceive only a single stimuli, and cannot "think" at all. A microbe may react to light, or heat, or the presence of food but it will do so in exactly the same manner as all the other microbes- or it will die. When a microbe reproduces, it divides to create another microbe that is an exact replica of the original. Higher forms of life acquire the ability to react to a multitude of stimuli simultaneously, as well as to categorize, memorize, compare, evaluate, and postulate....in other words, the higher life forms develop the basic dynamics required for intelligent thought. The highest life forms by human standards are humans, (the gnostic or self-aware, advanced primate). Individual human intelligence, and the collective conscious intelligence of a community (aka society) is enhanced by the exercise required to solve a wide variety of problems and resolve complex social situations. When there are diverse religions, ethnicities, and cultural priorities within a finite group of people who will interacting on a regular basis, the human consciousness has the opportunity to repsond by expanding the boundaries of things that are currently known and respected, (if not believed). In a society where we were all the same color, same religion, same political party, same social values, etc.....some of the best and most creative parts of each individual member would atrophy for lack of use. Often as not, it is the tension between the dissimilar that results in creative energies rather than the sleepy, homogenized, mundane boredom of the strictly conforming. Without diversity of thought we would still believe the sun orbited around the earth, and that our planet was the geographic center of the universe. Without diversity of culture, we would have 107 classical music stations to choose from on the radio. Jazz, blues, rock 'n roll, country western? Never would have happened. Without diversity of religion, we'd all be worshipping the Earth Mother. Hinduism, Buddhism, or the religions of Abraham (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) would never have evolved because each religious person would have been careful to be, think, and act in strict conformity with those who preceded him. Without diversity, we would go out to dinner in America and eat porridge. Chinese food? Italian food? Mexican food? French food? Ain't happening. Many of the people who clamor most actively for a conformist "American" society fail to appreciate that American society as we know it today is the result of a creative process that resulted from balancing and incorporating diverse factors, not the strict adherence to a conformity. Many of the people who decry diversity define the "diverse" as almost anybody who is not exactly the same as the person devaluing diversity. ************************ We now return you to our regulary scheduled political crap fight. |
( OT) Kerry Military Records
"Gould 0738" wrote in message ... We now return you to our regulary scheduled political crap fight. Gould, There is nothing political about this crap fight. : ) |
( OT) Kerry Military Records
PS - I don't know if you wrote the piece on diversity or cut and pasted, but
either way it was an excellent post. "John Smith" wrote in message news:r_Gkc.2059$IG1.66781@attbi_s04... "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... We now return you to our regulary scheduled political crap fight. Gould, There is nothing political about this crap fight. : ) |
( OT) Kerry Military Records
"Don" wrote in message
... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Don" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote "Don" wrote Why is diversity a good thing? 1) Because it exposes you to different types of people. shred Well, duh. But you still haven't explained WHY that is a good thing. Au contraire. I have offered several reasons, although certainly not all. You explained why *being exposed to different types of people* is a good thing? Did you read ALL of reason #1, or stop after the first sentence? |
( OT) Kerry Military Records
"Don" wrote in message
... "Doug Kanter" wrote "Don" wrote "basskisser" wrote "Don" wrote "basskisser" wrote Well, every human being migrated from somewhere, at some time. Nope. I was born in the US, I am native. Earliest humanoid remains have been found in Africa, therefore, you're African. Nope. I have never been to Africa. I was born in the US, I am a native. Take us back to the first generation of your ancestors who touched this soil. Where were THEIR grandparents from? How is that relevent to, well, anything at all? They are all dead. I, however, was born here in the US and am a native. Aren't you? It's relevant to me, and nobody needs to know why. Relative to this question, you are behaving like Dave Hall, refusing to answer a question which may erode your stance in this discussion. That's a Very Bad Thing. |
( OT) Kerry Military Records
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Don" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote "Don" wrote "basskisser" wrote "Don" wrote "basskisser" wrote Well, every human being migrated from somewhere, at some time. Nope. I was born in the US, I am native. Earliest humanoid remains have been found in Africa, therefore, you're African. Nope. I have never been to Africa. I was born in the US, I am a native. Take us back to the first generation of your ancestors who touched this soil. Where were THEIR grandparents from? How is that relevent to, well, anything at all? They are all dead. I, however, was born here in the US and am a native. Aren't you? It's relevant to me, and nobody needs to know why. Lemme get this straight, you ask me a question, then I ask you for the relevency and you tell me I don't need to know why? Relative to this question, you are behaving like Dave Hall, refusing to answer a question Well, if refusing to answer a question makes one like Dave Hall, then you might consider yourself like him as you haven't answered my question about relevency. which may erode your stance in this discussion. That's a Very Bad Thing. sigh Doug, my grandparents were born in the US, Pennsylvania. So was my mom and dad and myself and brothers and sisters. I do not know where any relatives before my grandparents were from, nor do I really care. |
( OT) Kerry Military Records
PS - I don't know if you wrote the piece on diversity or cut and pasted, but
either way it was an excellent post. Thank you. Alas, I have nobody to blame for the style or content of said post except myself. IMO, he who has to cut and paste his philosophy and values probably doesn't have a firm grip on either. Cutting and pasting news is different. Sort of. |
( OT) Kerry Military Records
"Don" wrote in message
... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Don" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote "Don" wrote "basskisser" wrote "Don" wrote "basskisser" wrote Well, every human being migrated from somewhere, at some time. Nope. I was born in the US, I am native. Earliest humanoid remains have been found in Africa, therefore, you're African. Nope. I have never been to Africa. I was born in the US, I am a native. Take us back to the first generation of your ancestors who touched this soil. Where were THEIR grandparents from? How is that relevent to, well, anything at all? They are all dead. I, however, was born here in the US and am a native. Aren't you? It's relevant to me, and nobody needs to know why. Lemme get this straight, you ask me a question, then I ask you for the relevency and you tell me I don't need to know why? Relative to this question, you are behaving like Dave Hall, refusing to answer a question Well, if refusing to answer a question makes one like Dave Hall, then you might consider yourself like him as you haven't answered my question about relevency. which may erode your stance in this discussion. That's a Very Bad Thing. sigh Doug, my grandparents were born in the US, Pennsylvania. So was my mom and dad and myself and brothers and sisters. I do not know where any relatives before my grandparents were from, nor do I really care. But, you DO know that it's relevant to this discussion about diversity. The word, as you're using it, clearly means "people from someplace else". Based purely on population numbers, it's a virtual certainty that you have ancestors who were not native Americans. If you have a problem with diversity, your reasons are probably general enough that they would've applied to your ancestors, too. |
( OT) Kerry Military Records
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Don" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Don" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote "Don" wrote Why is diversity a good thing? 1) Because it exposes you to different types of people. shred Well, duh. But you still haven't explained WHY that is a good thing. Au contraire. I have offered several reasons, although certainly not all. You explained why *being exposed to different types of people* is a good thing? Did you read ALL of reason #1, or stop after the first sentence? This is TWICE now that you have failed to answer a question. Either address the question directly Doug, or drop it. At least Gould offered a reasonable reply. Wrong, but reasonable. |
( OT) Kerry Military Records
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Don" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Don" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote "Don" wrote "basskisser" wrote "Don" wrote "basskisser" wrote Well, every human being migrated from somewhere, at some time. Nope. I was born in the US, I am native. Earliest humanoid remains have been found in Africa, therefore, you're African. Nope. I have never been to Africa. I was born in the US, I am a native. Take us back to the first generation of your ancestors who touched this soil. Where were THEIR grandparents from? How is that relevent to, well, anything at all? They are all dead. I, however, was born here in the US and am a native. Aren't you? It's relevant to me, and nobody needs to know why. Lemme get this straight, you ask me a question, then I ask you for the relevency and you tell me I don't need to know why? Relative to this question, you are behaving like Dave Hall, refusing to answer a question Well, if refusing to answer a question makes one like Dave Hall, then you might consider yourself like him as you haven't answered my question about relevency. which may erode your stance in this discussion. That's a Very Bad Thing. sigh Doug, my grandparents were born in the US, Pennsylvania. So was my mom and dad and myself and brothers and sisters. I do not know where any relatives before my grandparents were from, nor do I really care. But, you DO know that it's relevant to this discussion about diversity. Look, I have asked you several times now WHY diversity is a good thing and you have yet to answer it. All you have done is parrot the same old stuff I see everywhere, with no REAL answer. It isn't about ME, Doug. It is about YOU, and your unsupported claim that diversity is good. Remaining hysterical tripe snipped. |
( OT) Kerry Military Records
"Gould 0738" wrote
Why is diversity a good thing? The value of diversity: In a society where we were all the same color, same religion, same political party, same social values, etc.....some of the best and most creative parts of each individual member would atrophy for lack of use. Japan, for example, is a largely homogenous society. One race. Yet the Japanese constantly out do the US in just about every endeavor, education, technology, medicine, crime prevention, etc. China and India too are both mainly homogenous societies yet are beating the pants off the US in the manufacturing arena. I'll submit that diversity, in itself, is what is eroding the core values of the US, the rights and freedom of the individual, regardless of race, color or creed. The US public schools are dismal as a result of its focus on *diversity* rather than education. The proof abounds that diversity in and of itself does more harm than good. Further proof is provided that for the past few days my question, *Why is diversity a good thing?*, has went way over the heads of many people, like Doug Kanter for example, and are thus left to flounder in their own confused words. Here's my take on the whole thing: Diversity alone is not a good thing, and there is no proof to show otherwise. People should be free to associate with whom they please. All things should be addressed in a moderate manner as there is more wrong than good in a singular mentality. To claim that diversity is universally good is disingenuous on its face. I thank you for your reasoned reply, Gould. |
( OT)Was Kerry Military Records. Now diversity vs. conformity
Japan, for example, is a largely homogenous society. One race.
This is about race? I thought it was about diversity vs. confromity. Japan has five or six opposing political parties. The Japaneses follow Shintoism, Buddhism, Confucianism, Christianity, and Islam. By no means do the Japanese conform with one another. They have formed an *inclusive* society around a number of diverse elements. Yet the Japanese constantly out do the US in just about every endeavor, education, technology, medicine, crime prevention, etc. Which has nothing to do with racial homogeny. It has much to do with American economic colonization of Japan following WWII, American experts modernizing Japanese industries, etc. Japan got a "clean start" in many respects 60 years ago. The cultural values of Japan, particularly the emphasis on thrift and education served the country well during the last gasp of claissic industrialism, the late 20th Century. Japan has been in a very deep recession for many years, partially due to a lack of diversity in investment and industry. Part of the recent economic downturn in the US was due to a lack of diversity in investment choices. Far too much capital following the herd into the dot.com economy. Ouch. Recall my comment that creative energies are often spawned by the tension between dissimilar interests. Such was the case in Japan following the Second World War. There was tension between the traditional Japanese culture and the new, more Americanized ways. It could be said that it was during the period of this cultural tension that Japan experienced sensational growth. The relative racial homogenity of Japan would be impossible to achieve in America by any acceptable means. Nor would it be desirable. China and India too are both mainly homogenous societies yet are beating the pants off the US in the manufacturing arena. China is not at all homogenous. There are several *languages* spoken in China, for heaven's sake! There are signficant and important ethnic differences between northern, southern, and coastal Chinese. Racial homegenity is not responsible for the rapid growth of Chinese manufacturing. Plain old supply and demand. Umpteen zillion people willing to work for a few US dollars a day- because its ten times what they'd have otherwise. That, and the fact that the Peoples Republic of China refuses to let its currency float so that the laws of economics would eventually level the playing field....(China moving up in cost as wages in the US increase less rapidly than before or decrease due to increased labor supply here). I'll submit that diversity, in itself, is what is eroding the core values of the US, the rights and freedom of the individual, regardless of race, color or creed. Diversity, rather than conformity *is* the core value of the United States. Why would we need freedom of speech, if we all were going to thing alike? Why would we need freedom of religion, if we are going to worship alike? Why would we need periodic elections, if we all supported the same political party and ideals? Why would we need freedom of assembly, if we weren't going to recognize differences between people and choose to associate, or not, with people of various types and characteristics? If we eliminate diversity, freedom of association is a moot point. Enforced conformity is not an American ideal. The US public schools are dismal as a result of its focus on *diversity* rather than education. The US Public Schools are less than they might be for a number of reasons. We pay teachers substantially less the equally educated professionals with equal responsiblities in other fields, (insert the rare exception to the general rule here.............), thereby mixing the truly inspired, dedicated, altruists with the washouts and underachievers. The American family all too often sees education as something that goes on only at school. "Family time" in the American household often involves no more interaction that everybody staring at a common TV program, or watching 5 separate shows in five separate rooms. We idolize athletes and musicians, not scholars. We're more likely to take pride in our kids for being on a State Champion basketball team than for winning debates, scoring well on the SAT, or being named Valedictorian. Going back to schools separated by ethincity or demanding that "all the rest of those people better start acting white!" won't corect the underlying social factors that challenge our schools. I am in favor of single race schools. The human race. Within our single race, there are many different customs and perspectives. I am enriched by learning more about my neighbors, but I would be diminished if I demanded that all my neighbors act, think, vote, speak, write, or worship exactly as I do. The proof abounds that diversity in and of itself does more harm than good. If so, I invite you to present some. You have so far expressed some opinons, but shown no proof. I have expressed some opinions as well, but as always, the burden of proof is on the plaintiff. That's you, Mr. Plaintiff. Diversity is the accused in this debate. As it is difficult to prove a negative, I'll even accept as "proof" examples of how totalitarian, conformist societies with little or no diversity in thought, speech, religion, or ethnicity have made significant contributions to the advancement of the human condition. In fact, I'll generously even overlook attempts at nationalizing a "master race" in the last century. Further proof is provided that for the past few days my question, *Why is diversity a good thing?*, has went "has went"? All things should be addressed in a moderate manner as there is more wrong than good in a singular mentality. Ok, how'd we get so far off the track at this point? Diversity is the only *option* to a singular mentality. We either all think alike, or we don't. If we don't, we enjoy diversity of thought and opinion. To claim that diversity is universally good is disingenuous on its face. Based on the reasonable, (although in my opinion incorrect), tone of your argument I am going to assume that you don't fully understand the nature of your penultimate comment. No, I was not pretending to be ignorant in order to deceive when I disagreed about diversity. Some would think it rather arrogant to hold an opinion that any person able to construct an argument for a position counter to you own really knows better, but has chosen to be disingenuous. Either the arrogance, or a lack of understanding about the meaning of a powerful word. I'll grant you the latter. It wears better than arrogance. :-) |
( OT)Was Kerry Military Records. Now diversity vs. conformity
"Gould 0738" wrote
Japan, for example, is a largely homogenous society. One race. This is about race? I thought it was about diversity vs. confromity. Nope. The question, again, was: Why is diversity a good thing? And still, there has been no concrete reason given. Lots of nibbling around the edge though. Yet the Japanese constantly out do the US in just about every endeavor, education, technology, medicine, crime prevention, etc. Which has nothing to do with racial homogeny. But it certainly has everything to do with lack of diversity. It has much to do with American economic colonization of Japan following WWII, American experts modernizing Japanese industries, etc. The relative racial homogenity of Japan would be impossible to achieve in America by any acceptable means. Nor would it be desirable. Compare the 2 paragraphs above, do you see a conflict there? China and India too are both mainly homogenous societies yet are beating the pants off the US in the manufacturing arena. China is not at all homogenous. There are several *languages* spoken in China, for heaven's sake! Now you're picking nits. While there are 2 basic languages in China (Mandarin and Cantonese), they are closely assimilated so as to be more like dialects than languages. Like someone from Boston conversing with someone from New Orleans. There are signficant and important ethnic differences between northern, southern, and coastal Chinese. Racial homegenity is not responsible for the rapid growth of Chinese manufacturing. Plain old supply and demand. Umpteen zillion people willing to work for a few US dollars a day- because its ten times what they'd have otherwise. That, and the fact that the Peoples Republic of China refuses to let its currency float so that the laws of economics would eventually level the playing field....(China moving up in cost as wages in the US increase less rapidly than before or decrease due to increased labor supply here). I'll submit that diversity, in itself, is what is eroding the core values of the US, the rights and freedom of the individual, regardless of race, color or creed. Diversity, rather than conformity *is* the core value of the United States. As of late. Why would we need freedom of speech, if we all were going to thing alike? Why would we need freedom of religion, if we are going to worship alike? Why would we need periodic elections, if we all supported the same political party and ideals? Why would we need freedom of assembly, if we weren't going to recognize differences between people and choose to associate, or not, with people of various types and characteristics? If we eliminate diversity, freedom of association is a moot point. Enforced conformity is not an American ideal. You're the only one that has mentioned *force* so far. Doesn't it seem that diversity is being enforced? The US public schools are dismal as a result of its focus on *diversity* rather than education. The US Public Schools are less than they might be for a number of reasons. We pay teachers substantially less the equally educated professionals Apples -Oranges The proper comparison would be to compare the salaries and benefits of *public* school teachers to *private* school teachers. Public teachers reap more, while doing less, than private teachers. with equal responsiblities in other fields, (insert the rare exception to the general rule here.............), thereby mixing the truly inspired, dedicated, altruists with the washouts and underachievers. The American family all too often sees education as something that goes on only at school. "Family time" in the American household often involves no more interaction that everybody staring at a common TV program, or watching 5 separate shows in five separate rooms. We idolize athletes and musicians, not scholars. We're more likely to take pride in our kids for being on a State Champion basketball team than for winning debates, scoring well on the SAT, or being named Valedictorian. Agreed. google John Gatto, for more info. Going back to schools separated by ethincity or demanding that "all the rest of those people better start acting white!" won't corect the underlying social factors that challenge our schools. Social factors aren't the problem, they are just one of the symptoms. I am in favor of single race schools. The human race. Within our single race, there are many different customs and perspectives. I am enriched by learning more about my neighbors, but I would be diminished if I demanded that all my neighbors act, think, vote, speak, write, or worship exactly as I do. Well, so far, you seem to be difining *diversity* but you have yet to reveal what that definition is. What is diversity, in the sense that is seen in the mainstream today? The proof abounds that diversity in and of itself does more harm than good. If so, I invite you to present some. You have been offering my proof thus far. I have been searching for an answer to my original question, "Why is diversity a good thing?", and have yet to see an answer. Even your post avoids anwering the question. You have so far expressed some opinons, but shown no proof. I have expressed some opinions as well, but as always, the burden of proof is on the plaintiff. That's you, Mr. Plaintiff. Diversity is the accused in this debate. Accused of what? As it is difficult to prove a negative, What negative? I asked a question. The same question I have asked over and over, and no one seems to have an answer except, "Just because, that's why." Well, that's not good enough. I'll even accept as "proof" examples of how totalitarian, conformist societies with little or no diversity in thought, speech, religion, or ethnicity have made significant contributions to the advancement of the human condition. In fact, I'll generously even overlook attempts at nationalizing a "master race" in the last century. Uh-oh. You know which law you are coming dangerously close to violating, don't you? Further proof is provided that for the past few days my question, *Why is diversity a good thing?*, has went "has went"? ??? All things should be addressed in a moderate manner as there is more wrong than good in a singular mentality. Ok, how'd we get so far off the track at this point? Diversity is the only *option* to a singular mentality. We either all think alike, or we don't. If we don't, we enjoy diversity of thought and opinion. To claim that diversity is universally good is disingenuous on its face. Based on the reasonable, (although in my opinion incorrect), tone of your argument I am going to assume that you don't fully understand the nature of your penultimate comment. Well, answer the original question directly and I will consider retracting my comment. Until then, it stands. No, I was not pretending to be ignorant in order to deceive when I disagreed about diversity. Some would think it rather arrogant to hold an opinion that any person able to construct an argument for a position counter to you own really knows better, but has chosen to be disingenuous. Either the arrogance, or a lack of understanding about the meaning of a powerful word. There ya go again, you accuse me of arrogancy or lack of understanding, but you yourself have not yet defined the word *diversity* nor have you explained why it, in and of itself, is a good thing. I'll grant you the latter. It wears better than arrogance. :-) Perhaps, but it is you that demonstrated the lack of understanding, not I. I asked a seemingly very simple question. Yet there doesn't seem to be an answer, at least not one based in any semblence of logic. When asked the question, "Why is diversity a good thing?", the common answer is delivered angrily, "It just is, that's why!" |
( OT) Kerry Military Records
"Don" wrote in message
... sigh Doug, my grandparents were born in the US, Pennsylvania. So was my mom and dad and myself and brothers and sisters. I do not know where any relatives before my grandparents were from, nor do I really care. But, you DO know that it's relevant to this discussion about diversity. Look, I have asked you several times now WHY diversity is a good thing and you have yet to answer it. All you have done is parrot the same old stuff I see everywhere, with no REAL answer. It isn't about ME, Doug. It is about YOU, and your unsupported claim that diversity is good. Remaining hysterical tripe snipped. I gave you MY answer. You didn't like it. And, for purposes of your own, you've chosen not to discuss your ancestry. So, before I give up on this subject, let's try this: Do you think it would've been better for American if YOUR ancestors had never come here? |
( OT)Was Kerry Military Records. Now diversity vs. conformity
There ya go again, you accuse me of arrogancy or lack of understanding, but
you yourself have not yet defined the word *diversity* nor have you explained why it, in and of itself, is a good thing. Actually, I did. Two posts back. The one you challenged in your rebuttal. The fact that you do not agree with my opinion does not change the fact that such an opinion was rendered. Don't lose sight of the fact that this discussion revolves around "Is diversity a good thing, or a bad thing?" Good and bad are subjective values. I might think dark beer tastes "good", you might think it tastes "bad", but neither of us will ever establish a truly objective proof to declare once and for all that dark beer tastes "good" or dark beer tastes "bad". In condemning diversity, you have offered examples of other countries that you feel are less diverse than the US enjoying rapid industrial growth (from a zero base). I read your post again, and again, but any specific representation of the ill effects of a mixed race society with a wide variety of social preferences upon the health and vitality of the US seems to be missing. On balance, the position that remains underdeveloped is the statement that diversity, in and of itself, is the single greatest factor threatening the civil rights and liberties of all Americans. I'd like to hear more about that...... |
( OT)Was Kerry Military Records. Now diversity vs. conformity
"Gould 0738" wrote in message ... There ya go again, you accuse me of arrogancy or lack of understanding, but you yourself have not yet defined the word *diversity* nor have you explained why it, in and of itself, is a good thing. Actually, I did. Two posts back. The one you challenged in your rebuttal. The fact that you do not agree with my opinion does not change the fact that such an opinion was rendered. Don't lose sight of the fact that this discussion revolves around "Is diversity a good thing, or a bad thing?" Good and bad are subjective values. I might think dark beer tastes "good", you might think it tastes "bad", but neither of us will ever establish a truly objective proof to declare once and for all that dark beer tastes "good" or dark beer tastes "bad". In condemning diversity, you have offered examples of other countries that you feel are less diverse than the US enjoying rapid industrial growth (from a zero base). I read your post again, and again, but any specific representation of the ill effects of a mixed race society with a wide variety of social preferences upon the health and vitality of the US seems to be missing. On balance, the position that remains underdeveloped is the statement that diversity, in and of itself, is the single greatest factor threatening the civil rights and liberties of all Americans. I'd like to hear more about that...... Over and over again in my replies I mentioned *in and of itself* when speaking of diversity. Seems in many things, particularly the public schools, diversity is the goal, to the detriment of an academic education. ( I have taught *AutoCAD* and *Elements of Design* at the 11th and 12th grade levels in a public school) The blind goal of *diversity* has stifled, or perhaps hindered, various levels of creativity and contribution back to society as any state leveled mandate is want to do. Call it an unintended consequence. I am not against diversity, but believe that it should be held in moderation, as with anything else, so as to not lose sight of the bigger picture. For years I have been disturbed by this trend and only during the past year or so have done research into it. Google is your friend. ;-) |
( OT) Kerry Military Records
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Don" wrote in message ... sigh Doug, my grandparents were born in the US, Pennsylvania. So was my mom and dad and myself and brothers and sisters. I do not know where any relatives before my grandparents were from, nor do I really care. But, you DO know that it's relevant to this discussion about diversity. Look, I have asked you several times now WHY diversity is a good thing and you have yet to answer it. All you have done is parrot the same old stuff I see everywhere, with no REAL answer. It isn't about ME, Doug. It is about YOU, and your unsupported claim that diversity is good. Remaining hysterical tripe snipped. I gave you MY answer. You didn't like it. And, for purposes of your own, you've chosen not to discuss your ancestry. So, before I give up on this subject, let's try this: Do you think it would've been better for American if YOUR ancestors had never come here? I'm not going to further debate you on this Doug, for you are missing the target completely. You are attempting to *personalize* the debate by making it about *me*, when that is not correct. I asked you what would seem to be a very simplistic question, one that I'm surprised you of all people, haven't answered outright. Now, if you don't know the answer, fine, there is nothing wrong with that. But don't even think that I'll allow you to twist the topic to something else entirely because it just ain't gonna happen. Take a look at my reply to Gould 0738 for some insight as to what this about. |
( OT)Was Kerry Military Records. Now diversity vs. conformity
"Don" wrote in message
... I am not against diversity, but believe that it should be held in moderation, as with anything else, so as to not lose sight of the bigger picture. So, you're saying it should be controlled. How do you propose to do that? |
( OT) Kerry Military Records
"Don" wrote in message
... I gave you MY answer. You didn't like it. And, for purposes of your own, you've chosen not to discuss your ancestry. So, before I give up on this subject, let's try this: Do you think it would've been better for American if YOUR ancestors had never come here? I'm not going to further debate you on this Doug, for you are missing the target completely. You are attempting to *personalize* the debate by making it about *me*, when that is not correct. I asked you what would seem to be a very simplistic question, one that I'm surprised you of all people, haven't answered outright. Now, if you don't know the answer, fine, there is nothing wrong with that. But don't even think that I'll allow you to twist the topic to something else entirely because it just ain't gonna happen. Take a look at my reply to Gould 0738 for some insight as to what this about. I noticed another message to Gould in which you said something about moderation, which means you think diversity can be controlled. How, and by whom?s |
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