Gee, guess I'll just have to give up driving. Maybe I'll use my passport
for ID. Oh, wait, the government already has my data on my passport. Whats
a poor guy to do. I can't stand the idea of anyone knowing anything about
me. I lead such an exciting life that Hollywood will steal my data to make
a new Bond-type film. Someone might find out about my mistresses... or boy
friends.... or what I order to eat... or what I read from the library.

I lead such a shameful life that I must keep things hidden. Between that
new ID and my credit cards I'm so exposed I'll have to give up renting all
thse porn movies so my fellow church goers won't find out.

Life will never be the same.

Butch
"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
...
While some of you may not understand the dangers inherent in a national
identity card, others will, and this update from the ACLU just adds to my
nervousness that we are becoming a fascist state:

US National ID Card
Now A Certainty
From Barry Steinhardt
5-6-5

Congressional passage of the "Real ID" legislation is now all but a done
deal, House and Senate conferees having agreed to inclusion of language in
an appropriations bill that is all but certain to pass.

The name "Real ID" is, if anything, too modest. Despite deep public
opposition over the years to a national identity card, and Congress's
unwillingness to even consider the idea directly, our security agencies
have now gotten what they want as proponents have succeeded in pushing
through Congress a National ID-in-disguise.

The "Real ID" Act Is Indeed A Real (National) ID.

Although individual states' driver's licenses may continue to exhibit
cosmetic differences, they will now contain a standardized set of
information collected by all 50 states, which means that underneath each
state's pretty designs they are really a single standardized national
card - backed up not only by biometrics, but also by a standardized
"machine-readable zone" and by a national database of ID information.
Local DMV offices may continue to appear to be state offices, but they
will now become agents acting on behalf of the federal government, charged
with issuing a national identity document without which one will be unable
to function in America.

* National Database Creates Powerful Tracking Tool.*

Real ID requires the states to link their databases together for the
mutual sharing of data from these IDs. This is, in effect, a single
seamless national database, available to all the states and to the federal
government. (The fact that the database is a distributed one, maintained
on interconnected servers in the separate states, makes no difference.)

* National Database Creates Security Risks.*

The creation of a single interlinked database creates a one-stop shop for
identity thieves and terrorists who want to assume an American's identity.
The security problems with creating concentrated databases has recently
been demonstrated by the rampant number of data breaches in recent months
in which information held by commercial database companies has fallen into
the hands of identity thieves or others. The government's record at
information security is little better and that is especially true at state
Motor Vehicle Departments that have routinely been the targets of both
insider and outsider fraud and just plain larceny.

* The "Machine-Readable Zone" Paves The Way For Private-Sector
Piggybacking.*

Our new IDs will have to make their data available through a "common
machine-readable technology." That will make it easy for anybody in
private industry to snap up the data on these IDs. Bars swiping licenses
to collect personal data on customers will be just the tip of the iceberg
as every retailer in America learns to grab that data and sell it to
Choicepoint for a dime. It won't matter whether the states and federal
government protect the data - it will be harvested by the private sector,
which will keep it in a parallel database not subject even to the limited
privacy rules in effect for the government.

* This national ID card will make observation of citizens easy but won't
do much about terrorism.*

The fact Is, identity-based security is not an effective way to stop
terrorism. ID documents do not reveal anything about evil intent - and
even if they did, determined terrorists will always be able to obtain
fraudulent documents (either counterfeit or real documents bought from
corrupt officials).

* Negotiated Rulemaking.*

Among the any unfortunate effects of this legislation is that it pre-empts
another process for considering standardized driver's licenses that was
far superior. That process (set in motion by the Intelligence Reform Act
of 2004) included a "negotiated rulemaking" among interested parties -
including the states and civil liberties groups - to create standards.
Instead, the worst form of rules is being imposed, with the details to be
worked out by security officials at DHS instead of through balanced
negotiations among affected parties.

* "Your Papers, Please."*

In the days after 9/11, President Bush and others proclaimed that we must
not let the terrorists change American life. It is now clear that -
despite its lack of effectiveness against actual terrorism - we have
allowed our security agencies push us into making a deep, far-reaching
change to the character of American life.

Barry Steinhardt

Director Technology and Liberty Project American Civil Liberties Union




--
Bush and the NeoConvicts who control him
are destroying the once-great United States.

Do you have a passport, social security card or a driver license?


"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
...
Butch Davis wrote:
Gee, guess I'll just have to give up driving. Maybe I'll use my passport
for ID. Oh, wait, the government already has my data on my passport.
Whats a poor guy to do. I can't stand the idea of anyone knowing
anything about me. I lead such an exciting life that Hollywood will
steal my data to make a new Bond-type film. Someone might find out about
my mistresses... or boy friends.... or what I order to eat... or what I
read from the library.

I lead such a shameful life that I must keep things hidden. Between that
new ID and my credit cards I'm so exposed I'll have to give up renting
all thse porn movies so my fellow church goers won't find out.

Life will never be the same.

Butch
"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
...

While some of you may not understand the dangers inherent in a national
identity card, others will, and this update from the ACLU just adds to my
nervousness that we are becoming a fascist state:



You simply don't get it. Suggest you study up on how national ID cards
have been abused in the past by communist and fascist countries. We're
heading headlong into fascism.

"Dr. Dr. K.aren Smithers" Call180bucme@foragoodtime wrote in message
...
Do you have a passport, social security card or a driver license?

What is comical is how harry gets his feathers ruffled over the thought of a
'national id' yet is such a big proponent of the socialism od "social
security" with it's national id.

What a hypocrite.....of course being a liebral....tat comes with the
territory.



"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
...
Butch Davis wrote:
Gee, guess I'll just have to give up driving. Maybe I'll use my
passport for ID. Oh, wait, the government already has my data on my
passport. Whats a poor guy to do. I can't stand the idea of anyone
knowing anything about me. I lead such an exciting life that Hollywood
will steal my data to make a new Bond-type film. Someone might find out
about my mistresses... or boy friends.... or what I order to eat... or
what I read from the library.

I lead such a shameful life that I must keep things hidden. Between
that new ID and my credit cards I'm so exposed I'll have to give up
renting all thse porn movies so my fellow church goers won't find out.

Life will never be the same.

Butch
"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
...

While some of you may not understand the dangers inherent in a national
identity card, others will, and this update from the ACLU just adds to
my nervousness that we are becoming a fascist state:



You simply don't get it. Suggest you study up on how national ID cards
have been abused in the past by communist and fascist countries. We're
heading headlong into fascism.

It is funny to see the DemoNazi's go crazy over some that is less invasive
than a national socialized medicine.


"P.Fritz" wrote in message
...

"Dr. Dr. K.aren Smithers" Call180bucme@foragoodtime wrote in message
...
Do you have a passport, social security card or a driver license?

What is comical is how harry gets his feathers ruffled over the thought of
a 'national id' yet is such a big proponent of the socialism od "social
security" with it's national id.

What a hypocrite.....of course being a liebral....tat comes with the
territory.



"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
...
Butch Davis wrote:
Gee, guess I'll just have to give up driving. Maybe I'll use my
passport for ID. Oh, wait, the government already has my data on my
passport. Whats a poor guy to do. I can't stand the idea of anyone
knowing anything about me. I lead such an exciting life that Hollywood
will steal my data to make a new Bond-type film. Someone might find
out about my mistresses... or boy friends.... or what I order to eat...
or what I read from the library.

I lead such a shameful life that I must keep things hidden. Between
that new ID and my credit cards I'm so exposed I'll have to give up
renting all thse porn movies so my fellow church goers won't find out.

Life will never be the same.

Butch
"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
...

While some of you may not understand the dangers inherent in a national
identity card, others will, and this update from the ACLU just adds to
my nervousness that we are becoming a fascist state:



You simply don't get it. Suggest you study up on how national ID cards
have been abused in the past by communist and fascist countries. We're
heading headlong into fascism.

P.Fritz wrote:
"Dr. Dr. K.aren Smithers" Call180bucme@foragoodtime wrote in
message
...
Do you have a passport, social security card or a driver license?

What is comical is how harry gets his feathers ruffled over the
thought of a
'national id' yet is such a big proponent of the socialism od
"social
security" with it's national id.

What a hypocrite.....of course being a liebral....tat comes with the
territory.

Fritz, are you posting drunk, again? There's so many typos and
ignorance in your statement, that it barely makes sense.

On Fri, 06 May 2005 13:35:45 GMT, "Butch Davis" wrote:

Gee, guess I'll just have to give up driving. Maybe I'll use my passport
for ID. Oh, wait, the government already has my data on my passport. Whats
a poor guy to do. I can't stand the idea of anyone knowing anything about
me. I lead such an exciting life that Hollywood will steal my data to make
a new Bond-type film. Someone might find out about my mistresses... or boy
friends.... or what I order to eat... or what I read from the library.

I lead such a shameful life that I must keep things hidden. Between that
new ID and my credit cards I'm so exposed I'll have to give up renting all
thse porn movies so my fellow church goers won't find out.

Life will never be the same.

Butch
"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
...
While some of you may not understand the dangers inherent in a national
identity card, others will, and this update from the ACLU just adds to my
nervousness that we are becoming a fascist state:

US National ID Card
Now A Certainty
From Barry Steinhardt
5-6-5

Congressional passage of the "Real ID" legislation is now all but a done
deal, House and Senate conferees having agreed to inclusion of language in
an appropriations bill that is all but certain to pass.

The name "Real ID" is, if anything, too modest. Despite deep public
opposition over the years to a national identity card, and Congress's
unwillingness to even consider the idea directly, our security agencies
have now gotten what they want as proponents have succeeded in pushing
through Congress a National ID-in-disguise.

The "Real ID" Act Is Indeed A Real (National) ID.

Although individual states' driver's licenses may continue to exhibit
cosmetic differences, they will now contain a standardized set of
information collected by all 50 states, which means that underneath each
state's pretty designs they are really a single standardized national
card - backed up not only by biometrics, but also by a standardized
"machine-readable zone" and by a national database of ID information.
Local DMV offices may continue to appear to be state offices, but they
will now become agents acting on behalf of the federal government, charged
with issuing a national identity document without which one will be unable
to function in America.

* National Database Creates Powerful Tracking Tool.*

Real ID requires the states to link their databases together for the
mutual sharing of data from these IDs. This is, in effect, a single
seamless national database, available to all the states and to the federal
government. (The fact that the database is a distributed one, maintained
on interconnected servers in the separate states, makes no difference.)

* National Database Creates Security Risks.*

The creation of a single interlinked database creates a one-stop shop for
identity thieves and terrorists who want to assume an American's identity.
The security problems with creating concentrated databases has recently
been demonstrated by the rampant number of data breaches in recent months
in which information held by commercial database companies has fallen into
the hands of identity thieves or others. The government's record at
information security is little better and that is especially true at state
Motor Vehicle Departments that have routinely been the targets of both
insider and outsider fraud and just plain larceny.

* The "Machine-Readable Zone" Paves The Way For Private-Sector
Piggybacking.*

Our new IDs will have to make their data available through a "common
machine-readable technology." That will make it easy for anybody in
private industry to snap up the data on these IDs. Bars swiping licenses
to collect personal data on customers will be just the tip of the iceberg
as every retailer in America learns to grab that data and sell it to
Choicepoint for a dime. It won't matter whether the states and federal
government protect the data - it will be harvested by the private sector,
which will keep it in a parallel database not subject even to the limited
privacy rules in effect for the government.

* This national ID card will make observation of citizens easy but won't
do much about terrorism.*

The fact Is, identity-based security is not an effective way to stop
terrorism. ID documents do not reveal anything about evil intent - and
even if they did, determined terrorists will always be able to obtain
fraudulent documents (either counterfeit or real documents bought from
corrupt officials).

* Negotiated Rulemaking.*

Among the any unfortunate effects of this legislation is that it pre-empts
another process for considering standardized driver's licenses that was
far superior. That process (set in motion by the Intelligence Reform Act
of 2004) included a "negotiated rulemaking" among interested parties -
including the states and civil liberties groups - to create standards.
Instead, the worst form of rules is being imposed, with the details to be
worked out by security officials at DHS instead of through balanced
negotiations among affected parties.

* "Your Papers, Please."*

In the days after 9/11, President Bush and others proclaimed that we must
not let the terrorists change American life. It is now clear that -
despite its lack of effectiveness against actual terrorism - we have
allowed our security agencies push us into making a deep, far-reaching
change to the character of American life.

Barry Steinhardt

Director Technology and Liberty Project American Civil Liberties Union




--
Bush and the NeoConvicts who control him
are destroying the once-great United States.


I can't figure out how the Europeans have managed to get along with their ID's.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

On Fri, 6 May 2005 10:37:23 -0400, "Dr. Dr. K.aren Smithers"
Call180bucme@foragoodtime wrote:

Do you have a passport, social security card or a driver license?


"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
...
Butch Davis wrote:
Gee, guess I'll just have to give up driving. Maybe I'll use my passport
for ID. Oh, wait, the government already has my data on my passport.
Whats a poor guy to do. I can't stand the idea of anyone knowing
anything about me. I lead such an exciting life that Hollywood will
steal my data to make a new Bond-type film. Someone might find out about
my mistresses... or boy friends.... or what I order to eat... or what I
read from the library.

I lead such a shameful life that I must keep things hidden. Between that
new ID and my credit cards I'm so exposed I'll have to give up renting
all thse porn movies so my fellow church goers won't find out.

Life will never be the same.

Butch
"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
...

While some of you may not understand the dangers inherent in a national
identity card, others will, and this update from the ACLU just adds to my
nervousness that we are becoming a fascist state:



You simply don't get it. Suggest you study up on how national ID cards
have been abused in the past by communist and fascist countries. We're
heading headlong into fascism.


Airplanes have been abused in the past. Should we all stop flying? Union
positions have been abused in the past, guess we should do away with unions.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
...
wrote:
P.Fritz wrote:

"Dr. Dr. K.aren Smithers" Call180bucme@foragoodtime wrote in

message

...

Do you have a passport, social security card or a driver license?

What is comical is how harry gets his feathers ruffled over the

thought of a

'national id' yet is such a big proponent of the socialism od

"social

security" with it's national id.

What a hypocrite.....of course being a liebral....tat comes with the
territory.


Fritz, are you posting drunk, again? There's so many typos and
ignorance in your statement, that it barely makes sense.




On top of everything else, Fritz is a drunk? Do tell.

At least he has an excuse...

"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
...
Bert Robbins wrote:
"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
...

wrote:

P.Fritz wrote:


"Dr. Dr. K.aren Smithers" Call180bucme@foragoodtime wrote in

message


...


Do you have a passport, social security card or a driver license?

What is comical is how harry gets his feathers ruffled over the

thought of a


'national id' yet is such a big proponent of the socialism od

"social


security" with it's national id.

What a hypocrite.....of course being a liebral....tat comes with the
territory.


Fritz, are you posting drunk, again? There's so many typos and
ignorance in your statement, that it barely makes sense.




On top of everything else, Fritz is a drunk? Do tell.


At least he has an excuse...


Alcoholism is not something of which to be proud. I wondered when I was
still seeing Fritz's posts what was wrong with him. Now I know. If you
were really his friend, you'd see he got help.

Mr. Expert On Everything speaks again!

"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
...
Bert Robbins wrote:
"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
...

Bert Robbins wrote:

"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
...


wrote:


P.Fritz wrote:



"Dr. Dr. K.aren Smithers" Call180bucme@foragoodtime wrote in

message



...



Do you have a passport, social security card or a driver license?

What is comical is how harry gets his feathers ruffled over the

thought of a



'national id' yet is such a big proponent of the socialism od

"social



security" with it's national id.

What a hypocrite.....of course being a liebral....tat comes with the
territory.


Fritz, are you posting drunk, again? There's so many typos and
ignorance in your statement, that it barely makes sense.




On top of everything else, Fritz is a drunk? Do tell.


At least he has an excuse...


Alcoholism is not something of which to be proud. I wondered when I was
still seeing Fritz's posts what was wrong with him. Now I know. If you
were really his friend, you'd see he got help.


Mr. Expert On Everything speaks again!




With which part of my statement do you disagree, Bert?

A. Alcoholism is not something of which to be proud.
B. If you were his friend, you'd see he got help.

We can't help him until he wants help himself.