Peggie, if you were outfitting a boat for serious cruising, with
reliability and ease of maintenance important concerns, what type of
head would you choose? Sorry, but manually operated is not an option.

Wayne.B wrote:
Peggie, if you were outfitting a boat for serious cruising, with
reliability and ease of maintenance important concerns, what type of
head would you choose? Sorry, but manually operated is not an option.

There is no "one size fits all" answer to your question...it depends on
your budget, the amount of space in your head, whether you want to use
sea water or pressurized fresh flush water, whether flush water volume
is a concern (holding tank size, or whether you can also use a treatment
device...etc. I need more information before I can recommend a toilet.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"


http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 19:30:56 GMT, Peggie Hall
wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
Peggie, if you were outfitting a boat for serious cruising, with
reliability and ease of maintenance important concerns, what type of
head would you choose? Sorry, but manually operated is not an option.

There is no "one size fits all" answer to your question...it depends on
your budget, the amount of space in your head, whether you want to use
sea water or pressurized fresh flush water, whether flush water volume
is a concern (holding tank size, or whether you can also use a treatment
device...etc. I need more information before I can recommend a toilet.

================================================== ===

The boat is most likely to be a Hatteras 53 Classic or Yacht Fish.
They have decent sized heads but not enormous. They also have a good
sized holding tank in the 200 gallon range if my memory is correct.
The choice between fresh water and sea water is not all that important
to me but all other things being equal, I'd probably pick salt water.
In the interest of simplicity and reliability, I'd probably not choose
a treatment device. My first priorities are reliability, and ease of
maintenance if something does go wrong.

Wayne.B wrote:
They have decent sized heads but not enormous. They also have a good
sized holding tank in the 200 gallon range if my memory is correct.
The choice between fresh water and sea water is not all that important
to me but all other things being equal, I'd probably pick salt water.

In that case, I recommend the Raritan SeaEra--very basic, exceptionally
durable and trouble-free macerating electric toilet. It's available in
both raw water and pressurized flush water versions. Pressurized flush
water is simpler...no intake pump, which means no impellers to fail
because someone forgot to open the seacock. Also eliminates odor from
stagnant sea water trapped in the head intake AND sea water cacium
carbonate buildup in the hoses.

In the interest of simplicity and reliability, I'd probably not choose
a treatment device. My first priorities are reliability, and ease of
maintenance if something does go wrong.

IMO, you have it backwards...a Lectra/San requires far LESS maintenance
than a holding tank--no vents to keep clear, no need for any odor
elimination management...no sludge buildup...no macerator pump with an
impeller that can fail at sea when the tank is full because you either
haven't changed it in 5 years or forgot to turn it off as soon as the
tank was empty. The only maintenance a Lectra/San needs to keep running
reliably for about 20 years is a solution of muriatic acid according to
directions once or twice a year.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 03:55:27 GMT, Peggie Hall
wrote:
IMO, you have it backwards...a Lectra/San requires far LESS maintenance
than a holding tank--no vents to keep clear, no need for any odor
elimination management...no sludge buildup...no macerator pump with an
impeller that can fail at sea when the tank is full because you either
haven't changed it in 5 years or forgot to turn it off as soon as the
tank was empty. The only maintenance a Lectra/San needs to keep running
reliably for about 20 years is a solution of muriatic acid according to
directions once or twice a year.
==================================

Peggie, thanks for the reply. I was under the impression, perhaps
incorrectly, that a holding tank was still required for the output of
the Lectra/San in order to comply with no discharge areas. Is that
incorrect?

Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 03:55:27 GMT, Peggie Hall
wrote:

IMO, you have it backwards...a Lectra/San requires far LESS maintenance
than a holding tank--no vents to keep clear, no need for any odor
elimination management...no sludge buildup...no macerator pump with an
impeller that can fail at sea when the tank is full because you either
haven't changed it in 5 years or forgot to turn it off as soon as the
tank was empty. The only maintenance a Lectra/San needs to keep running
reliably for about 20 years is a solution of muriatic acid according to
directions once or twice a year.

==================================

Peggie, thanks for the reply. I was under the impression, perhaps
incorrectly, that a holding tank was still required for the output of
the Lectra/San in order to comply with no discharge areas. Is that
incorrect?

You're correct that waste must go into a tank in "no discharge" waters.
However, whether it's been treated first is irrelevant...once waste goes
into a tank, it's no longer considered treated waste. The real question
is, how likely are you to ever be in any "no discharge" waters?
Contrary to what many believe, 90% of US coastal waters are not. Except
for some small harbors, there are none between RI and the FL Keys on the
east coast, none north of Santa Barbara on the west coast, and only
Destin Harbor in the Gulf. So unless you plan to put the boat on the
Great Lakes--which are all totally "no discharge," eliminating the
choice of installing anything but a holding tank--or in SoCal, RI or MA,
it would be wise to have at least a small tank in addition to a
Lectra/San, but it's unlikely that you'll use it much, if at all.


--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:41:43 GMT, Peggie Hall
wrote:
So unless you plan to put the boat on the
Great Lakes--which are all totally "no discharge," eliminating the
choice of installing anything but a holding tank--or in SoCal, RI or MA,
it would be wise to have at least a small tank in addition to a
Lectra/San, but it's unlikely that you'll use it much, if at all.
=========================

I spend quite a bit of time cruising in RI and MA, and occassionally
on the great lakes. Would you put the Y-valve to the holding tank
before or after the Lectra/san? I'm assuming "after" but I'm not
sure. That also raises the question about through hull fittings. Can
you pipe the output of the holding tank macerator to the same through
hull as the Lectra/san if you use check valves on both sides?

Wayne.B wrote:
I spend quite a bit of time cruising in RI and MA, and occassionally
on the great lakes. Would you put the Y-valve to the holding tank
before or after the Lectra/san?

Raritan prefers that it be after, on the theory that putting treated
waste in the tank is "healthier," but only one bacterium has to survive
and multiply to become zillions in a very short time, so it doesn't
really matter...put it where it's the most accessible.


That also raises the question about through hull fittings. Can
you pipe the output of the holding tank macerator to the same through
hull as the Lectra/san if you use check valves on both sides?

Yep. But I see no reason why you'd need check valves. The L/S discharges
by overflowing out the top, so it's unlikely that waste from the tank
would get into it, especially if you specify all the tank fittings on
the top of the tank, with a tube inside to the bottom on the discharge.
I'd also spec two discharge ports--one for pumpout, one for overboard
discharge. That eliminates a y-valve. And, I strongly recommend that you
go with an electric diaphragm pump--the SeaLand T-series--instead of an
impeller macerator. When impeller pumps aren't used much, the impeller
tends to have a high failure rate...it gets stuck to the inside of the
housing, the stress on the vanes when it's started again often cracks one.

However, in most waters where you'd have to use the tank, you'd prob'ly
have to use a pumpout anyway. In coastal "no discharge" waters where you
can get out to sea beyond the "3 mile limit" to dump the tank, you'll
soon be able to process it through the L/S. That's not possible now, but
Raritan has a system in development they claim should be available by
the end of the year that will make it possible, and can be retrofitted
to installed Lectra/Sans--at least to the current model...I'm not sure
about older ones.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

Thanks again, it's always a pleasure discussing unpleasant subjects
with you. :-)

======================

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:21:46 GMT, Peggie Hall
wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
I spend quite a bit of time cruising in RI and MA, and occassionally
on the great lakes. Would you put the Y-valve to the holding tank
before or after the Lectra/san?

Raritan prefers that it be after, on the theory that putting treated
waste in the tank is "healthier," but only one bacterium has to survive
and multiply to become zillions in a very short time, so it doesn't
really matter...put it where it's the most accessible.


That also raises the question about through hull fittings. Can
you pipe the output of the holding tank macerator to the same through
hull as the Lectra/san if you use check valves on both sides?

Yep. But I see no reason why you'd need check valves. The L/S discharges
by overflowing out the top, so it's unlikely that waste from the tank
would get into it, especially if you specify all the tank fittings on
the top of the tank, with a tube inside to the bottom on the discharge.
I'd also spec two discharge ports--one for pumpout, one for overboard
discharge. That eliminates a y-valve. And, I strongly recommend that you
go with an electric diaphragm pump--the SeaLand T-series--instead of an
impeller macerator. When impeller pumps aren't used much, the impeller
tends to have a high failure rate...it gets stuck to the inside of the
housing, the stress on the vanes when it's started again often cracks one.

However, in most waters where you'd have to use the tank, you'd prob'ly
have to use a pumpout anyway. In coastal "no discharge" waters where you
can get out to sea beyond the "3 mile limit" to dump the tank, you'll
soon be able to process it through the L/S. That's not possible now, but
Raritan has a system in development they claim should be available by
the end of the year that will make it possible, and can be retrofitted
to installed Lectra/Sans--at least to the current model...I'm not sure
about older ones.

Wayne.B wrote:
Thanks again, it's always a pleasure discussing unpleasant subjects
with you. :-)

Any time. If you'd like to discuss specifics of your installation,
you're welcome to email: peg(dot)hall(at)sbcglobal(dot)net

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html