KMAN wrote:
in article ,
Tinkerntom
at wrote on 2/14/05 4:19 AM:


KMAN wrote:
in article ,
Tinkerntom
at wrote on 2/13/05 9:21 PM:


BCITORGB wrote:
rick states:
==========
Great education system you got there, eh? So, you don't teach
math and english, that must
mean all the time is spent in jingoistic
indoctrination.(questioning inflection)
==========

there must be a deficiency somewhere because your post is
completely
incomprehensible to me... the problem lies either at your end or
mine.
perhaps some americans could translate for me.

frtzw906

Hi Frtzw906, I'm here for a short bit, and I'll try to translate.
Our
friend "R" is sort of mixed up. He jumps into this discussion and
lashes out at everyone, no matter what side of the discussion
your
on.
I think he is angry at everyone, basically, he doesn't know
whether
he's coming or going, just so he gets some response. I've noted
this
behavior before, and try not to let it bother me. But then
according to
some, I'm a great one to call the kettle black! TnT

Oy-yoy-yoy.

Still giving aspirin a headache eh Tinkerntom? Heehee. It's
amazing
how many
mixed up people you seem to come across. It sure must be lonely on
Tinkerntom's isle of sanity.

That sounds like a foreign language, and here I thought you
Canadians
all spoke the Kings Engliss, or is that French. I was trying to be
the
nice guy and bail old Frtwz out by translating for him. I figured
it
would get Rick worked up even more, but Frtwz and I have been
having a
decent palaver, and Rick jumped into the middle of it all, kickin
and
screamin every which way. Sort of reminds me of someone I know,
only to
well!!!

Hey you have not been around very much, so I am an equal
opportunity
headache waiting to find an unsuspecting noggen to fall on. I
don't
know that it is amazing that I come across so many mixed up people,
they seem to find me! HeHe!! Though there are plenty to go around,
so
how many do you want?

But since you are here now, how have you been? I have missed our
little
spats, and I certainly hope you are OKay. Any more of those raging
headaches since I last talked to you, hope not! Did you take that
med
that I recommended? and did it work? Must assume that it did if you
are
back for more. TnT

Your grip on reality grows more tenuous with each passing day. I
really
can't bear to watch.

Well, it's your lucky day, you don't have to watch! You can if you
want, but like Melissa, you can work on outfitting your boat cockpit
also. That always seems to be a good excuse for not watching, and
getting your head clear. There are going to be some well outfitted
cockpits come Spring! HeHe! and you all can thank me for some, but not
all the free motivation!

Oh, BTW, my new expertise is making "bent bars straight", at least
according to Wilko. The headache stuff got to be to easy, no challenge!
It is called BBS, which is a little more involved than BS.

As far as reality goes, again talk to M. she knows all the big words
about that reality stuff. It is good to have a mellowing voice around,
helps keep my feet on the ground! er water! Actually it is ground, that
could be part of the problem. TnT

On 13-Feb-2005, "rick" wrote:

According to the ontario education minister, 'strike' is a
5-letter word. Just a little defitent in math and'or english.

Uhh, that was a politician. They are well known to be mentally
_deficient_. Google "George W. Bush" for more examples.

Mike

BCITORGB wrote:
You said:
==============
Alas, that's not an uncommon occurrance with him and my remarks. That's
why I've stopped bothering to respond to anything Scott spouts.
================

I should have considered myself warned. As you've said elsewhere "he
could talk a bent bar straight" (is that a Dutch expression? -- I like
it!).

Yep, it's a Dutch expression. Funny thing is that I find that quite a
few of the expressions and sayings that we have here are are used in
exactly the same way (literally translated that is) in other languages.
I guess that good ideas are easier to copy than to invent yourself.
Dutch is for a big part a mix of a bunch of languages, including
English, French and German. :-)

Now that I've unfrocked him as a closet socialist ("government
assistance to everyone else is bad, but it's good for me if I need it"
is his hypocritical stance. But assistance by any other name is still
socialism -- and what's so bad about that?) I'll perhaps retire.

He was one of the main reasons I wrote this page:

http://wilko.webzone.ru/troll.html

Walking off into the sunset while dusting my hands in victory over
Scott, I remain,
frtzw906

Now why do I hear the Lucky Luke tune? ;-)

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://wilko.webzone.ru/

BCITORGB wrote:


TnT says:
==================
The N. Korean Nuclear threat is very real, but we have not gone
storming in there, and are trying to get them to the negotiating table
with their neighbors....
=====================

You'll excuse me if I find that just a bit disingenuous.

My take on it is that the USA has not gone storming in there because
(a) you might be in for a rude surprise if they do have and use nuclear
weapons and (b) there's no oil or anything else of much economic value
there (and, perhaps, (c) you don't like the idea of upsetting the
Chinese who may not be as sophisticated weapons-wise, but don't have to
worry too much about a depleted armed forces or popular reaction
against a military draft.)

You'd think that the U.S. would attack China, if only for the long term
occupation of and atrocities it committed in Tibet. But alas, Tibet has
no oil and China has a lot of very heavy yield nuclear weapons...

TnT says:
===================
I do not expect to see our troops marching down the EU boulevards,
since they are civilized and appear willing to solve their own issues.
==============

Oh, how very nice of you to say so.

But the fact that you might think about it, were the Euros not so
civilised (by your reckoning), is a frightening thought.

Funny thing we're talking about acting civilised.

Let's talk about the similarities between China and the U.S.: Both have
enough WMD's to destroy the world, but want no one else to get them,
both have invaded other independent nations that posed no threat to them
in the past century, both are having a bigger percentage of their own
citizens behind bars than anyone else, both countries use prisoners as
slave labour, both countries commit war crimes, use torture on a regular
basis and use executions on a large scale.

At what point do the Euros appear less civilised to American eyes? Will
it be economic issues that tip the balance (like, for instance, even
more central bankers around the world opting to hold euros instead of
dollars as reserve currencies)? Or, could it be that social or "values"
issues tip the balance from your perspective (like more cities like
Frankfurt setting up injection sites for drug addicts? Or more
countries like the Netherlands adopting laws permitting euthanasia?).
Please, let Europe know at what point it will no longer be considered
"civilised" from an American perspective.

Considering that the current U.S. administration has already threathened
to use force to free any single U.S. war criminal who is brought
before the International War Crimes Tribunal in the Hague, I think that
"civilised" U.S. style means invading a fellow member of the NATO if it
suits your needs...

The propaganda used to attack the Dutch drug laws is also funny. The
U.S. government sent a retired general over who stated that the
Netherlands was a drug paradise, with higher murder and other crime
rates than the U.S.. This general was then verbally shamed by the Dutch
diplomat who simply inquired where the general got his statistics.

It's one thing to try to lie to your own population, it's another to lie
to someone who knows the truth.

TnT says:
=====================
maintained troops in Europe, and political pressure on the Iron
Curtain countries to take down the Wall... We eventually saw the Wall
come down,....
=======================

I hope you're not suggesting that American "pressure" brought down the
wall. If you are, I suggest you acquaint yourself with concepts and
names like "Solidarity", "Vaclav Havel", the Luthern church in
Leipzig.... and countless more. American pressure? I think not!

I will, on this issue, however, give a tip of the hat to Pres. Reagan
and his military spending. Put overly simplistically, his spending
brought the Soviet empire to bankrupcy (trying to keep up) before the
Yanks went broke. That did help bring the wall down.

Funny how similar spending now is helping the Yanks go broke. Looks like
Osama learned a valuable lesson from the time the CIA helped him in
Afghanistan. Hurt them in such a way that they will attack anything that
moves and spend more than they can afford, eventually hitting where it
hurts the most, in their economy.

Oh! I get it! You'll protect the oil from tyrants who oppose the USA.
Clearly some tyrants are OK. So the USA won't be bringng liberation and
democracy to Saudi Arabia any time soon then, eh?

And there we touch the core of the current U.S. government strategy: do
as we say, don't do as we do: long live double standards!

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://wilko.webzone.ru/

"Michael Daly" wrote in message
...
On 13-Feb-2005, "rick" wrote:

According to the ontario education minister, 'strike' is a
5-letter word. Just a little defitent in math and'or
english.

Uhh, that was a politician. They are well known to be mentally
_deficient_. Google "George W. Bush" for more examples.
=====================
Fortunately W isn't directly in charge of the education of a
million kids, mr Kennedy is.




Mike

Wilko wrote:
BCITORGB wrote:


TnT says:
==================
The N. Korean Nuclear threat ...snip


Clearly some tyrants are OK. So the USA won't be bringng liberation
and
democracy to Saudi Arabia any time soon then, eh?

Wilko, am I understanding that you are concerned about the "liberation
and democracy of Saudi Arabia", if the USA does not get involved in
this particular political venture? Would you be willing to lead the
Dutch military down there and set them straight, if you can not first
talk them straight?


And there we touch the core of the current U.S. government strategy:
do
as we say, don't do as we do: long live double standards!

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://wilko.webzone.ru/


Are you really concerned, or is this all just talk? Should I be
watching the news to see Saudis set free by Dutch fighting forces? No
probably not, and there we touch the core of the world strategy, "Talk,
and do nothing" Talk about double standards!! TnT

TnT says:
=========
Are you really concerned, or is this all just talk? Should I be
watching the news to see Saudis set free by Dutch fighting forces? No
probably not,
==========

TnT, you're completely missing his point (and mine). We are simply
pointing out the hypocrisy of the American position in Iraq. The latest
reason (of a very long and ever-changing list of reasons) for invading
Iraq was to relieve them of a dictator and to bring democracy.

We are not saying that that was right (especially when the "real"
reason is fairly transparent). But the USA is. So, we're simply
pointing out the logical inconsistencies in that position if you don't
also consider Saudi Arabia for invasion. Not to do so is hypocritical.

frtzw906

rick says:
=========
Fortunately W isn't directly in charge of the education of a
million kids, mr Kennedy is.
==========

Unfortunately, "W" is in charge of the most powerful nation.

rick, you display an interesting bit of (il)logic. By your reckoning,
then, a minister of education should be more intelligent than the
leader of the world's leading economy and military.

If you're representative of American voters, I'm beginning to see why
Americans voted as they did.

frtzw906

BCITORGB wrote:
TnT says:
=========
Are you really concerned, or is this all just talk? Should I be
watching the news to see Saudis set free by Dutch fighting forces? No
probably not,
==========

TnT, you're completely missing his point (and mine). We are simply
pointing out the hypocrisy of the American position in Iraq. The
latest
reason (of a very long and ever-changing list of reasons) for
invading
Iraq was to relieve them of a dictator and to bring democracy.

We are not saying that that was right (especially when the "real"
reason is fairly transparent). But the USA is. So, we're simply
pointing out the logical inconsistencies in that position if you
don't
also consider Saudi Arabia for invasion. Not to do so is
hypocritical.

frtzw906

And you miss mine. I was giving Wilko a bad time. If he is so
concerned about Iraq, and USA invasion, does he offer an alternative,
no matter what the original, or primary reason the USA offered? Ok he
does not think that we should have gone in there after oil, does he
think we should have gone in there for the "liberation and Democracy of
the Iraq people?"

Secondly, I was watching a documetary about Saudi Arabia on PBS. Forget
the Saks and other Glitz stores, the women were grocery shopping at a
Safeway! Seems the invasion is underway, and isn't that Osama's main
contention? TnT

TnT says:
================
the women were grocery shopping at a
Safeway!
==================

Now I have to think you're giving ME a bad time. Women shopping in a
Safeway is a pretty superficial way of measuring liberty, freedom and
democracy.

Back to the history books. Why were American revolutionaries so ****ed
off at King George and the Brits? Weren't they shopping in fashionable
shops in New York, Boston, etc that were every it as nice as all but
the best London could offer? Why ever were they upset?

Does the notion of a monarchy in 2005 not strike you as archaic? I
suspect it struck many "Americans" as archaic way babk in the 1770's.

frtzw906