in article , rick at
wrote on 2/28/05 6:52 PM:


"KMAN" wrote in message
. ..

"rick" wrote in message
.net...

"KMAN" wrote in message
. ..


snip...







If you are using cars as a justification for assault
weapons,
then you are
comparing the two, fool. LOL.
==========================
No fool. It is you that is trying to justify something
based on
what YOU determine to be a need. You failed.

You brought up cars, not me.
======================
No, you brought up the "need" of an object being the
determination whether or not people should have them. You
lost, again, and now have you resort to your ignorant
spews...

You brought up cars. Check.
===============
LOL STill as dense and stupid as ever I see, eh liar?

Nope. You brought up cars. Check.
======================
No

So you didn't bring up cars?
========================
Nice bit of dishonesty there fool.

So you didn't bring up cars?

in article , rick at
wrote on 2/28/05 7:06 PM:


"KMAN" wrote in message
. ..

"rick" wrote in message
.net...


snippage...



Why did you dishonestly delete the part about the lies you made
about wait lines that I proved you made?
Didn't like seeing your stupidity again?

restore start
Name one thing. Please quote the alleged lie, and provide
proof
that it is a
lie.
===========================
That Canadians don't wait for treatment in your health care
system.

You did not quote me.
======================
Yes, I did. see other posts for today... Here, want to see
it again?
"...No one is waiting for treatment..."

You need to quote without the "... and ..." and you also need
to provide a
link to the message so it can be verified. What a scumbag you
are!
================
There was no "and" fool. You made that statemnet. Too abd
you're a proven liar, eh?
YOU made the statement. Now you're claiming you can't find it?
You really are a loser, aren't you, liar?
restore end

Post the entire quote. Why did you need to delete the beginning and end?
Weasel.

in article , rick at
wrote on 2/28/05 7:06 PM:


"rick" wrote in message
ink.net...

"KMAN" wrote in message


snippage...

Or are you going to be consistent and be a liar and a coward
on
this issue
as well?
====================
Anything you open your mouth about, like Canadians never
waiting
for treatment.

I never said that. Every health care system requires that
people wait.
==========================
Yes, you did liar. Do try to keep up with your own spews, dolt.


What part of your claim:
"...No one is waiting for treatment..." don't you undersatnd?
You said it fool, 2/20/2005


Big lie there fool...

Never said it. Prove that I did.
================
See above fool. You made the claim, liar.

Why none of your pithy spews here, fool? Finally realixed how
stupid you really are, and how much you lie?

Post the entire quote, and reference it, weasel.

in article , rick at
wrote on 2/28/05 7:11 PM:


"Michael Daly" wrote in message
...
On 26-Feb-2005, "rick" wrote:

Try again - there was nothing in that link that said
Canadians are dying in waiting lines.

Put up or shut up, dickhead.
=================
Yes, there was. I see you don't lie any better than the other
buffoons...

Two sites provided unsubstantiated claims that people are dying
in waiting lines. Try providing one that substantiates that
claim.

The third one states:
"Claims about patients dying because of waiting too long cannot
be
confirmed or denied from current research and information."

You still haven't posted a link to prove your ridiculous
claim.
=============================
Again, that you don't like the messenger doen't mean the facts
are false. That YOU believe they are ubsubstantiated means
nothing. Like kman, if you weren't so afraid of the data you
could look for yourself. It's out there. I let kman look for
himself, and you now, because the first site was too 'right-wing'
the next was too 'union'. If the sites I provided are wrong, it
should be easy then for you to find refutation of the data.
Hasn't been done yet.

The union article did not reference any evidence. It was just as dishonest
as you are. But at least the union has a reason to be that way (to get more
money for their members) whereas you are just a scumbag.

in article , Tinkerntom
at wrote on 2/28/05 7:38 PM:


KMAN wrote:
"Tinkerntom" wrote in message
oups.com...

KMAN wrote:
"Tinkerntom" wrote in message
oups.com...

KMAN wrote:
"Tinkerntom" wrote in message
oups.com...

KMAN wrote:
in article , KMAN at
wrote on 2/28/05 12:59 AM:

in article
,
Tinkerntom
at wrote on 2/28/05 12:40 AM:


KMAN wrote:
in article
et,
rick
at
wrote on 2/27/05 5:10 PM:


"KMAN" wrote in message
...
in article
,
Tinkerntom

snip..



Tinkerntom, I'm actually surprised that a man of your
high
moral stands has
not jumped in to criticize rick for being a liar and a
coward.
Why is that?
================
MAybe for the simple reason that I have not lied. Of
course,
you
cannot make the same claim.
Why not at least back up one of your claims, fool?

If just one Canadian died in a waiting line for health
care
it
would
be a
national scandal featured on the front page of every
newspaper
and
the lead
story of every television and readio news program. It
hasn't
happened
rick.
You made it up. You are a liar. And a coward for
refusing
to
admit
it.

To his credit, Tinkerntom has added his name to the list
of
those
who
have
never seen you prove your claim.

I Did? Where did I say such a thing? TnT

Eh?

Sorry, my mistake. When I first read...

"I agree, that you claim, that he made the claim, and
failed
to
support
it. No mystery here after watching this squabble for the
last
week!"

...I missed out on the weasel words you threw in there. I
guess
you
really
are afraid of rick!

While you are still up, Tinkerntom, let me see if you are
not
too
big
of a
coward to give a straight answer.

Have you seen rick provide any evidence to support a claim
that
Canadians
are dying in waiting lines for health care?

[] Yes

[] No

What if I vote, and I get a hanging chad? Do we call
Katherine
Harris,
Jeb Bush, Florida Supreme Ct. or US Supreme Ct. to get this
mess
straightened out? TnT

Coward!

So what must I do to get off your Coward list, I'm waiting to
hear?
TnT

Answer the question. It's not like I suddenly gave you a label
with
no
foundation, Tinkerntom. You know exactly what this is about.

Have you seen rick provide any evidence to support a claim that
Canadians
are dying in waiting lines for health care?

[] Yes
[] No

Ok I'll try to answer you! Last night, I spent several hours going
through the archives of this discussion, reading several hundred
post
by Kman, frtwz, Mike D, Wilko, Scott W, and of course our good
friend
rick. I do not know whether rick will abide by my arbitration in
this
matter though so I am not sure whether I should wait for him to
agree.
However, he did say in one of his post even this AM, that he stands
by
his record, and that he posted as he claims evidence of Canadians
dying
while on wait list for medical procedures and Tests. I am assuming
also
that being on a wait list is the same thing as being in a wait
line. If
they are different, I did not find any claim by rick that people
are
dying in an actual line while waiting, or evidence to support any
such
claim.

Right. That's all I am saying.

You should have simply ticked "yes" instead of babbling on, but oh
well.

He has not provided any evidence that Canadians are dying waiting in
line
(or waiting on a list) for health care.

However, on 2/20 at 9:32 Rick presented 4 links as evidence to
support
his claim that Canadians were dying while on wait list, and
receiving
late, slow, and inadequate medical procedures. That if a Canadian
had
the funding, that he could go to the USA and receive prompt medical
attention, and that in Canada, such outsoursing was considered
illegal,
and subject to a substantial penalty. Rick was not comparing the
advantages or disadvantages of the two systems, nor even saying
that
the American system was good at all. He was only commenting on the
Canadian system that resulted in long wait times for certain
procedures

In certain rare circumstances, particularly in geographically
isolated
areas, or for unique specialty tests, yes.

and tests that at times resulted in people dying before they could
receive the medical attention that could have served to save their
lives.

There is no evidence of that.

He was not saying that once the people actually received the
medical attention, that the medical practices themselves were
inadequate or non-professional. The 4 links are as follow:

http://www.nupge.ca/news_2000/News%20May/n12my00a.htm
http://www.cato.org/dailys/07-24-04.html
http://www.utoronto.ca/hpme/dhr/pdf/Barer-Lewis.pdf


http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman...oysplight.html

Yes, I saw all of them.

None of them say that Canadians are dying waiting for health care.

The main objection to one of the links at the time was regarding
the
Frasier Institute, and its supposed backers, as being anti-Canadian
medical system. Whether this is true or not, I can not determine.

The Frasier Institute are a bunch of whackos, and not a reliable
source of
objective information, but even they aren't saying Canadians are
dying
waiting for health care.

Rick
also offered that there were many other links to support his claim,
data that came from Canadian universites, labor unions, think
tanks,
that would not supposedly be anti-Canadian. He did not list any
other
specific link that I found.

No, he didn't.

Regarding your question, unless there is a distinction between
waiting
list, and waiting lines, and irregardless of the credibility of the
links provided as evidence, I believe that rick did provide
evidence to
support his claim. So my vote is yes, and I believe you KMAN owe
rick a
public apology.

Please provide me with the precise quote from one of his links where
it
states that Canadians have in fact died waiting in line for
treatment.

Now I hope this can bring and end to the acrimony, and I would note
that though I believe rick provided the evidence, that I understand
better after reading maybe a hundred post by him that his style can
be
abrasive. My only suggestion is that in the future if you want to
avoid
the abrasion, don't engage him in debate. TnT
TnT

I would suggest that you be more careful in evaluating the question
at hand.

If you saw evidence provided by Rick (or anywhere else) that
Canadians have
died waiting in line for treatment, please post it.

KMAN, your question was whether rick posted any evidence, not whether
that evidence was valid!

Holy geezus the weasels are runing wild tonight!

My apologies for being unclear Tinkerntom.

Can I please try again?

Has rick PROVEN to you that Canadians are dying waiting for health care?

[] Yes

[] No

Thank you for your patience.

in article , Scott Weiser at
wrote on 2/28/05 8:01 PM:

A Usenet persona calling itself KMAN wrote:

in article , Scott Weiser at
wrote on 2/27/05 5:15 PM:

A Usenet persona calling itself BCITORGB wrote:

KMAN says:
================
There's no way that even a gun nut really believes that a community
without
guns is going to have more gun deaths than a community with guns.
Right?
===============

I think you're being overly optimistic.

Indeed. The problem with this utopian ideal is that it is functionally
impossible, anywhere in the world, to have a community without guns.

That being the case, the argument is fallacious at its core.

There are lots of communities in the world where no one has a gun. And
amazingly, no one gets shot there!

Prove it. Show me one community that you can certify does not have a gun in
it, and then show me how you can prevent a gun from being brought into that
community from outside.

I never said some whackjob like yourself couldn't bring a gun into a place
with no guns.

in article , Scott Weiser at
wrote on 2/28/05 8:03 PM:

A Usenet persona calling itself KMAN wrote:

in article , Tinkerntom
at wrote on 2/28/05 12:39 AM:


KMAN wrote:
in article , Scott Weiser at
wrote on 2/27/05 5:15 PM:

A Usenet persona calling itself BCITORGB wrote:

KMAN says:
================
There's no way that even a gun nut really believes that a
community
without
guns is going to have more gun deaths than a community with guns.
Right?
===============

I think you're being overly optimistic.

Indeed. The problem with this utopian ideal is that it is
functionally
impossible, anywhere in the world, to have a community without
guns.

That being the case, the argument is fallacious at its core.

There are lots of communities in the world where no one has a gun.
And
amazingly, no one gets shot there!

Could you give me a short list so that I can understand what type of
communities you are speaking of? Thanks, TnT

Howsabout the Amish?

Can you certify that there are no guns in Amish communities? Can you prevent
me from taking a gun into an Amish community?

No, but as I understand the Amish would rather throw themselves in front of
your bullets until you run out of ammo than become a gun culture themselves.
And frankly I don't think a lot of Amish are getting shot - by internal
shooters or external shooters.

"Scott Weiser" wrote in message
...
Screw the UN. We don't need its support or its blessing, much less its
permission.

Hmmm, you sound like Saddam Hussein. Funny, that.

--riverman

"KMAN" wrote in message
...
in article ,
rick at
wrote on 2/28/05 7:11 PM:


"Michael Daly" wrote in message
...
On 26-Feb-2005, "rick" wrote:

Try again - there was nothing in that link that said
Canadians are dying in waiting lines.

Put up or shut up, dickhead.
=================
Yes, there was. I see you don't lie any better than the
other
buffoons...

Two sites provided unsubstantiated claims that people are
dying
in waiting lines. Try providing one that substantiates that
claim.

The third one states:
"Claims about patients dying because of waiting too long
cannot
be
confirmed or denied from current research and information."

You still haven't posted a link to prove your ridiculous
claim.
=============================
Again, that you don't like the messenger doen't mean the facts
are false. That YOU believe they are ubsubstantiated means
nothing. Like kman, if you weren't so afraid of the data you
could look for yourself. It's out there. I let kman look for
himself, and you now, because the first site was too
'right-wing'
the next was too 'union'. If the sites I provided are wrong,
it
should be easy then for you to find refutation of the data.
Hasn't been done yet.

The union article did not reference any evidence. It was just
as dishonest
as you are.
================
Provide sites that refute their contentions, liar.

But at least the union has a reason to be that way (to get more
money for their members) whereas you are just a scumbag.
=================
And you're still a proven liar...

"KMAN" wrote in message
...
in article ,
rick at
wrote on 2/28/05 6:49 PM:

snip

Is there a coroner's report that says Mr X. died because he
was
waiting?
=====================
Read the sites fool. As you know, patient info is not
released.

There are stories about health care issues in the media all the
time.
Something as serious as someone dying while waiting for care
would
definitely make the front page.
==================
It has before fool. You're just too stupid, and too big a liar
to look them up.



Plus, the Canadian health care system has been voted the most
secretive, non-responsive group by Canadian journalists.

I guess that doesn't say much for our spy agency.
=====================
LOL What spy agency would that be, fool? We're talking about
your own media blasting your own medical care system. Too bad
you're too stupid to understand that, eh liar?



How can one crappy article by a union looking for money be
considered evidence?
================
Why are you relying then on what I posted. Go get the info
yourself. Try any nimber of other sources, universities,
union,
Canadian medical journal...

The info does not exist. If someone died waiting for health
care it would be
a major scandal with an inquest and a coroner's report.
==========================
Then you'd better start reading them fool. Continuing to lie
about it just prove that much more how desperate you are in your
chest-thumping.



The type of trash you are quoting is nothing but political
posturing by
groups using weasel words (just like you).
======================
Really? Then you should be able to find canadian medical journal
articles that refute those claims easily, eh liar. Opps, the
Canadian medical journal supports the other position, imagine
that, eh liar?