wrote in message
oups.com...

I'm about to trade in my pickup truck for a Toyota Corolla. What would
be the best/easist way to transport my 16' canoe? I want to be able to
load it myself. I was thinking about some good quality racks, like
Yakima, and then use some good straps thru the windows so I don't have
to worry about the rack coming off.
Also how hard is it to remove the racks? Should I just leave them on?


Ulp, your post shows a fatal flaw in your thinking!! If you secure the canoe
correctly, the lines over the bottom are NOT the ones that will hold it on!
The best way to secure a boat on a car is as follows:

1) Place the boat on the roof racks. Be sure, for aerodynamics, that the
canoe is centered over the wheels, not over the hood. That means the front
of the canoe sticks a few feet past the front bumper, the back sticks a few
feet past the back bumper, and the roof is probably NOT in the center of the
canoe. Most likely, the front roof rack is right at the center of the canoe,
and the back roof rack is way off at the end of the canoe.

2) Slide the canoe back about a foot. In some cases, in cars with long
hoods, the canoe will not sit on the roofracks at this point and needs to be
slid back a little to balance. Be CERTAIN, however, that the ends of the
canoe still protrude beyond the ends of the car, front and rear.

3) Tie a line from the front of the canoe down to the front bumper. For the
best rig, tie a line from the bow of the canoe out to the ends of the
bumper, making a triangle with the vertex on the canoe. Otherwise, a single
line from the canoe to the license plate is okay, but not as good. **This
line should be hauled tight enough to lift the stern of the canoe up off the
back roof rack about 6 inches.**

4) Go around back and tie a line from the back of the canoe down to the
center of the rear bumper. Haul down on this line. This should pull the
canoe back down onto the rear roof rack, and provide enough downward force
to 'lock it down' onto the roof racks, and 'lock down' the roof racks onto
the roof of your car.

5) Be EXTRA certain that the two end lines are not pulling in the same
direction; what I mean is that, if the canoe is longer than your car (which
is probably is), that the ends of the canoe still extend beyond the car. Be
sure that both tie down lines aren't trying to pull the canoe forwards. If
so, it will slide forwards and the lines will be slack. The lines should be
both pulling down and in. This is a common mistake, and people are baffled
why their lines keep coming loose.

6) Now, you are practically done. Your midline straps are only to keep the
canoe from slipping sideways on the roof racks. As such, they only have to
loop over the boat and secure on the roofracks. The fact that you asked if
you ought to run them through the windows shows that you weren't sure which
lines secure your boat. Some folks don't even use midline straps; a buddy of
mine just has little bumpers he uses to keep the boat from moving sideways.
If you try to tie on a canoe without end lines, you run the risk of the boat
'twisting' on the roof and coming right off, regardless of how hard you haul
down on the midlines. No matter what you hear from other people, trust me on
this, USE END LINES!

--riverman

riverman wrote:

6) Now, you are practically done. Your midline straps are only to
keep the
canoe from slipping sideways on the roof racks. As such, they only
have to
loop over the boat and secure on the roofracks. The fact that you
asked if
you ought to run them through the windows shows that you weren't sure
which
lines secure your boat. Some folks don't even use midline straps; a
buddy of
mine just has little bumpers he uses to keep the boat from moving
sideways.
If you try to tie on a canoe without end lines, you run the risk of
the boat
'twisting' on the roof and coming right off, regardless of how hard
you haul
down on the midlines. No matter what you hear from other people,
trust me on
this, USE END LINES!

That's an interesting theory. I've always tried to put the bow behind
the front of the car, that way the wind will actually tighten the line
running from the bow to the front of the car. I see your point though.
I'll have to think about this.

wrote in message
oups.com...

riverman wrote:

6) Now, you are practically done. Your midline straps are only to
keep the
canoe from slipping sideways on the roof racks. As such, they only
have to
loop over the boat and secure on the roofracks. The fact that you
asked if
you ought to run them through the windows shows that you weren't sure
which
lines secure your boat. Some folks don't even use midline straps; a
buddy of
mine just has little bumpers he uses to keep the boat from moving
sideways.
If you try to tie on a canoe without end lines, you run the risk of
the boat
'twisting' on the roof and coming right off, regardless of how hard
you haul
down on the midlines. No matter what you hear from other people,
trust me on
this, USE END LINES!

That's an interesting theory. I've always tried to put the bow behind
the front of the car, that way the wind will actually tighten the line
running from the bow to the front of the car. I see your point though.
I'll have to think about this.


Its more than a theory. I've lashed a LOT of canoes onto roofs, and this
method has proven to be bombproof. I've also noticed that the wind has a
much smaller effect than braking; things lashed on roofs tend to work
themselves forward instead of backwards. But try some ideas out for yourself
and let us know what you discover.

--riverman

riverman wrote:

That's an interesting theory. I've always tried to put the bow
behind
the front of the car, that way the wind will actually tighten the
line
running from the bow to the front of the car. I see your point
though.
I'll have to think about this.


Its more than a theory. I've lashed a LOT of canoes onto roofs, and
this
method has proven to be bombproof. I've also noticed that the wind
has a
much smaller effect than braking; things lashed on roofs tend to work

themselves forward instead of backwards. But try some ideas out for
yourself
and let us know what you discover.

I didn't think about braking. That makes sense. I'm sold! I like the
fact this method doesn't rely solely on the racks to hold up. That
makes me nervous no matter how great the rack is.

By the way, slight change of plans. I ended up with a new Nissan
Sentra. I'm guessing they are the same as a Corolla, though.
Thanks!

Chuck.

On 11-Jan-2005, "riverman" wrote:

Be sure, for aerodynamics, that the
canoe is centered over the wheels, not over the hood.

I'm trying to figure out why this should be so.

**This
line should be hauled tight enough to lift the stern of the canoe up off the
back roof rack about 6 inches.**

4) Go around back and tie a line from the back of the canoe down to the
center of the rear bumper. Haul down on this line. This should pull the
canoe back down onto the rear roof rack, and provide enough downward force
to 'lock it down' onto the roof racks, and 'lock down' the roof racks onto
the roof of your car.

The results of this arbitrary 6" lift will be highly dependent on the amount
of stretch in the line, on the distance between the rack crossbars and on
the type of canoe you're tying down. Stiff lines on a light canoe mounted on
closely spaced crossbars could break the hull while soft lines on a WW canoe
with widely spaced bars may have little effect.

Mike

"Michael Daly" wrote in message
...
On 11-Jan-2005, "riverman" wrote:

Be sure, for aerodynamics, that the
canoe is centered over the wheels, not over the hood.

I'm trying to figure out why this should be so.

Hi Mike. When the car is going straight with a direct headwind, it *is*
irrelevant. But having the boat far to the rear, as many people tend to do
instinctively when they center it over the cockpit of the car, gives you a
'sway' if you have a sidewind, or if you get a blast from a passing
tractor-trailer. If the canoe is centered, you only get a lean. It also
distributes the weight evenly on the car: otherwise you ride like you have a
loaded rear end.


**This
line should be hauled tight enough to lift the stern of the canoe up off
the
back roof rack about 6 inches.**

4) Go around back and tie a line from the back of the canoe down to the
center of the rear bumper. Haul down on this line. This should pull the
canoe back down onto the rear roof rack, and provide enough downward
force
to 'lock it down' onto the roof racks, and 'lock down' the roof racks
onto
the roof of your car.

The results of this arbitrary 6" lift will be highly dependent on the
amount
of stretch in the line, on the distance between the rack crossbars and on
the type of canoe you're tying down. Stiff lines on a light canoe mounted
on
closely spaced crossbars could break the hull while soft lines on a WW
canoe
with widely spaced bars may have little effect.

Yes, you are completely correct. 6" is an approximation of what I used with
my boat, but your response shows that you perceive the situation clearly. I
should have said 'enough tension to raise the stern of the canoe a small
amount, so that when you tie down the stern, it tightens the bow line
significantly."

--riverman

Mike

Thank you! That is the best explanation I have seen on how/why to tie a boat
down. I have seen some nightmares out on the road. --- Some of them were
mine - I have worked it out to more or less what you describe, but it took
many tries and stops along the road to fix loose ropes to work out what you
have explained well in a few short posts..

Ken

"riverman" wrote in message
...

"Michael Daly" wrote in message
...
On 11-Jan-2005, "riverman" wrote:

Be sure, for aerodynamics, that the
canoe is centered over the wheels, not over the hood.

I'm trying to figure out why this should be so.

Hi Mike. When the car is going straight with a direct headwind, it *is*
irrelevant. But having the boat far to the rear, as many people tend to do
instinctively when they center it over the cockpit of the car, gives you a
'sway' if you have a sidewind, or if you get a blast from a passing
tractor-trailer. If the canoe is centered, you only get a lean. It also
distributes the weight evenly on the car: otherwise you ride like you have
a
loaded rear end.


**This
line should be hauled tight enough to lift the stern of the canoe up
off
the
back roof rack about 6 inches.**

4) Go around back and tie a line from the back of the canoe down to the
center of the rear bumper. Haul down on this line. This should pull the
canoe back down onto the rear roof rack, and provide enough downward
force
to 'lock it down' onto the roof racks, and 'lock down' the roof racks
onto
the roof of your car.

The results of this arbitrary 6" lift will be highly dependent on the
amount
of stretch in the line, on the distance between the rack crossbars and
on
the type of canoe you're tying down. Stiff lines on a light canoe
mounted
on
closely spaced crossbars could break the hull while soft lines on a WW
canoe
with widely spaced bars may have little effect.

Yes, you are completely correct. 6" is an approximation of what I used
with
my boat, but your response shows that you perceive the situation clearly.
I
should have said 'enough tension to raise the stern of the canoe a small
amount, so that when you tie down the stern, it tightens the bow line
significantly."

--riverman

Mike

"No Spam" wrote in message
news:M5_Ed.9595$eb.6206@trndny01...
Thank you! That is the best explanation I have seen on how/why to tie a
boat
down. I have seen some nightmares out on the road. --- Some of them were
mine - I have worked it out to more or less what you describe, but it took
many tries and stops along the road to fix loose ropes to work out what
you
have explained well in a few short posts..

Just for reference, here are a few pics of how NOT to load a canoe on a car.
These folks all centered their boats over the cockpit of the car, or
centered them over the roofracks. You can see that it moves the boat way to
the rear, makes for a very unaerodynamic load, and leaves both endlines
running forward; perfect set-up for the canoe coming loose when the driver
puts on the brakes.

http://www.dawsonfamily.ca/John/notkids.shtml
http://www.ericandjoan.com/worldtrip.../auschp10.html
http://www.keithv.com/scans/canoe.jpg
http://www.mohawkcanoes.com/transport.htm (and this one is even on a site by
Mohawk Canoe, explaining how to tie on a canoe!!)
http://www.softopper.com/products_rack.html

Conversely, here is a pic of a canoe properly centered over the wheelbase of
the vehicle. These will ride more stably, not cause a sway if there is a
sidewind, and most importantly, the endlines are pulling equally in opposite
directions so the boat will not shift around.

http://www.sfu.ca/~dlpress/paddling/09_Canoe_Car.JPG

--riverman

On 11-Jan-2005, "riverman" wrote:

gives you a 'sway' if you have a sidewind

Gotcha.

It also
distributes the weight evenly on the car: otherwise you ride like you have a
loaded rear end.

Ditto - but in winter with many cars, that's a good thing. 'Course paddling
when there's snow and ice is only for us crazy folk.

Mike