Calif Bill wrote:
The California people have not lost money.

Yes, a lot have. Especially people who took cash out of their "increased
equity" by refinancing, and then either got laid off or got the loan
called. Or those who got laid off and had to sell.


... May take a little longer to
sell, but the prices have not gone down.

You have your head stuck in the sand, too. Do you have

I have several relatives & close friends who are in the real estate
business in California, and another associate who is an REIT manager and
does a lot of business there. The decline in value is not really a crash
(although it looked like it was going to be a BIG crash for a while) but
it's definite.


... Since the guy and his partners are realtors, they seem
to know a value.

Are they as full of malarkey as you are, Mr Moderate Democrat?

DSK

NOYB wrote:
I am paying interest-only on a 5-year fixed at 4.25%.

Pardon me for being blunt, but that's friggin' dumb. That's as stupid as
punting on 3rd and short. Do you *want* the economy to take a big
chunk out of your future?


... I really can't
afford an $825k house (with a conventional mortgage) while I am still paying
off my business loan. But if I didn't buy when I did, I'd never be able to
afford it.

So why do you feel you need an $800K+ house? To show off? To impress
your trophy wife?


... When my loan is paid off (in just under 5 years), I can easily
afford such a house.

In 5 years, a lot can happen. Including double-digit inflation and a
real estate crash... but in your case it sounds like a much less severe
scenario will still seal your financial doom.



... I look at like this: I'm effectively renting the house for
5 -years (but with a tax write-off!)

Or tying a huge anchor around your neck for the rest of your earning life.

Did the banker who wrote your mortgage feed you this justification? Did
he give a shark-like smile as he did so?

A whole lot of people in California got a big chunk bitten out of their
hides by this beast. But hey, don't listen to me...


Those people weren't in the same boat as me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hope springs eternal etc etc... unfortunately, so does
self-deception.


I *hate* the fact that I have to spend as much as I do on insurance...but
it sure makes me sleep better at night.


Insurance is just legalized gambling. Think for a second... why do you
have to gamble so heavily on your own failure? If you weren't taking big
risks, you wouldn't need so much insurance.

Personally, I wouldn't roll those dice with my own future, much less my
families. OTOH I handle a lot of stock market investments without a
qualm, and sleep very well indeed at night.

With good wishes
Doug King

NOYB wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

DSK wrote:
NOBBY wrote:
In Florida, your home is your safest investment.

Yeah, at least Florida doesn't have earthquakes...

Oh, not necessarily. There are deep earth faults that go through
Florida. The potential is always there. Slight, but there.


... The tax write-off is a
bonus. I can write off the interest on the home loan, but not
interest on
my school loan. That just doesn't make sense.


You haven't paid off your school loans yet, and you're floating a
mortgage for a $900K home? NOBBY, you're a financial train wreck
waiting
to happen.

Not surprising, really, considering how you come by your opinions
&
attitudes, but I hope for the sake of your family that you have
good
life insurance.

DSK

Yep, that's our NOYB, risk a nice safe affordable home for his
family,
all for the sake of keeping up with the Jones'.

My neighbor's name isn't Jones. He's German.
I didn't expect you'd get it.

"DSK" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
I am paying interest-only on a 5-year fixed at 4.25%.

Pardon me for being blunt, but that's friggin' dumb. That's as stupid as
punting on 3rd and short. Do you *want* the economy to take a big chunk
out of your future?

Why is it dumb? I explained in detail why it works well for me. Why pay
interest on an asset that's appreciating at 10-20% per year?



... I really can't afford an $825k house (with a conventional mortgage)
while I am still paying off my business loan. But if I didn't buy when I
did, I'd never be able to afford it.

So why do you feel you need an $800K+ house? To show off? To impress your
trophy wife?


Because I wanted to be on the water. Boating access down here is hard to
come by. The parking spaces at the ramps are filled by 9am on the weekend.
Even if you get there early enough, you have to pay a storage place $100+/
mo. to store your boat on the trailer. Two largest marinas have closed in
the last 3 years stranding me and 500 other boaters without a space to keep
our boats. Renting private in-water slips for a boat my size runs
$300/mo...and the owner could decide tomorrow that he doesn't want to rent
to me anymore. I was keeping the boat in Ft. Myers Beach, and the seasonal
traffic was turning a 30 minute ride to the marina into an hour and a half.

Now, I hop in my boat and I'm in the gulf in 17 minutes from my back door.



... When my loan is paid off (in just under 5 years), I can easily
afford such a house.

In 5 years, a lot can happen. Including double-digit inflation and a real
estate crash... but in your case it sounds like a much less severe
scenario will still seal your financial doom.

So what. In 2009, my rate can begin adjusting 2 points per year, upto a max
of 5 points. The worst case scenario: I'll be sitting with a rate of
9.25%...which I can afford to pay since I won't have the $6500/mo. business
loan any longer.





... I look at like this: I'm effectively renting the house for 5 -years
(but with a tax write-off!)

Or tying a huge anchor around your neck for the rest of your earning life.

Not for the rest of my earning life. Just for another 4 1/2 years. Then I
can afford to start paying an additional $4000/mo in principal.



Did the banker who wrote your mortgage feed you this justification? Did he
give a shark-like smile as he did so?

No. I used Wells Fargo. I had to talk *him* into it.


A whole lot of people in California got a big chunk bitten out of their
hides by this beast. But hey, don't listen to me...


Thanks. I won't.



Those people weren't in the same boat as me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hope springs eternal etc etc... unfortunately, so does
self-deception.


How many people can say with absolute certainty, that on September 20, 2009,
they will get a before-tax raise of $6500/month? I can.


I *hate* the fact that I have to spend as much as I do on
insurance...but it sure makes me sleep better at night.


Insurance is just legalized gambling. Think for a second... why do you
have to gamble so heavily on your own failure? If you weren't taking big
risks, you wouldn't need so much insurance.

And I would reap the rewards that go along with risk.


Personally, I wouldn't roll those dice with my own future, much less my
families. OTOH I handle a lot of stock market investments without a qualm,
and sleep very well indeed at night.

With good wishes

Thanks.

"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

NOYB wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

DSK wrote:
NOBBY wrote:
In Florida, your home is your safest investment.

Yeah, at least Florida doesn't have earthquakes...

Oh, not necessarily. There are deep earth faults that go through
Florida. The potential is always there. Slight, but there.


... The tax write-off is a
bonus. I can write off the interest on the home loan, but not
interest on
my school loan. That just doesn't make sense.


You haven't paid off your school loans yet, and you're floating a
mortgage for a $900K home? NOBBY, you're a financial train wreck
waiting
to happen.

Not surprising, really, considering how you come by your opinions
&
attitudes, but I hope for the sake of your family that you have
good
life insurance.

DSK

Yep, that's our NOYB, risk a nice safe affordable home for his
family,
all for the sake of keeping up with the Jones'.

My neighbor's name isn't Jones. He's German.
I didn't expect you'd get it.


I didn't expect that you would.

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"DSK" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
I am paying interest-only on a 5-year fixed at 4.25%.

Pardon me for being blunt, but that's friggin' dumb. That's as stupid as
punting on 3rd and short. Do you *want* the economy to take a big chunk
out of your future?

Why is it dumb? I explained in detail why it works well for me. Why pay
interest on an asset that's appreciating at 10-20% per year?

Some people just don't get that owing money is not necessarrily a bad thing.





... I really can't afford an $825k house (with a conventional
mortgage) while I am still paying off my business loan. But if I didn't
buy when I did, I'd never be able to afford it.

So why do you feel you need an $800K+ house? To show off? To impress your
trophy wife?


Because I wanted to be on the water. Boating access down here is hard to
come by. The parking spaces at the ramps are filled by 9am on the
weekend. Even if you get there early enough, you have to pay a storage
place $100+/ mo. to store your boat on the trailer. Two largest marinas
have closed in the last 3 years stranding me and 500 other boaters without
a space to keep our boats. Renting private in-water slips for a boat my
size runs $300/mo...and the owner could decide tomorrow that he doesn't
want to rent to me anymore. I was keeping the boat in Ft. Myers Beach,
and the seasonal traffic was turning a 30 minute ride to the marina into
an hour and a half.

Now, I hop in my boat and I'm in the gulf in 17 minutes from my back door.






... When my loan is paid off (in just under 5 years), I can easily
afford such a house.

In 5 years, a lot can happen. Including double-digit inflation and a real
estate crash... but in your case it sounds like a much less severe
scenario will still seal your financial doom.

So what. In 2009, my rate can begin adjusting 2 points per year, upto a
max of 5 points. The worst case scenario: I'll be sitting with a rate of
9.25%...which I can afford to pay since I won't have the $6500/mo.
business loan any longer. ;-)

And you are in a profession that is reasonably recession proof, unlike the
construction biz ;-)

You've also bought into a limited resource......there is a finite limit of
useable waterfront property.







... I look at like this: I'm effectively renting the house for 5 -years
(but with a tax write-off!)

Or tying a huge anchor around your neck for the rest of your earning
life.

Not for the rest of my earning life. Just for another 4 1/2 years. Then I
can afford to start paying an additional $4000/mo in principal.

Hell, if you could pay interest only, with the tax deductiblity for life, at
the rate you have, combined with the historical appreciation of real estate,
it would still be a great investment.

I have clients that invest in retail properties, they keep everything
mortgaged to the max......they are constantly refinancing, pulling any
appreciation out of the property and reinvesting it in others.





Did the banker who wrote your mortgage feed you this justification? Did
he give a shark-like smile as he did so?

No. I used Wells Fargo. I had to talk *him* into it.


A whole lot of people in California got a big chunk bitten out of their
hides by this beast. But hey, don't listen to me...


Thanks. I won't.



Those people weren't in the same boat as me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hope springs eternal etc etc... unfortunately, so does
self-deception.


How many people can say with absolute certainty, that on September 20,
2009, they will get a before-tax raise of $6500/month? I can.


I *hate* the fact that I have to spend as much as I do on
insurance...but it sure makes me sleep better at night.


Insurance is just legalized gambling. Think for a second... why do you
have to gamble so heavily on your own failure? If you weren't taking big
risks, you wouldn't need so much insurance.

And I would reap the rewards that go along with risk.





Personally, I wouldn't roll those dice with my own future, much less my
families. OTOH I handle a lot of stock market investments without a
qualm, and sleep very well indeed at night.

With good wishes

Thanks.

NOYB wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

NOYB wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

DSK wrote:
NOBBY wrote:
In Florida, your home is your safest investment.

Yeah, at least Florida doesn't have earthquakes...

Oh, not necessarily. There are deep earth faults that go through
Florida. The potential is always there. Slight, but there.


... The tax write-off is a
bonus. I can write off the interest on the home loan, but
not
interest on
my school loan. That just doesn't make sense.


You haven't paid off your school loans yet, and you're floating
a
mortgage for a $900K home? NOBBY, you're a financial train
wreck
waiting
to happen.

Not surprising, really, considering how you come by your
opinions
&
attitudes, but I hope for the sake of your family that you have
good
life insurance.

DSK

Yep, that's our NOYB, risk a nice safe affordable home for his
family,
all for the sake of keeping up with the Jones'.

My neighbor's name isn't Jones. He's German.
I didn't expect you'd get it.


I didn't expect that you would.

And you didn't.....

NOYB wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

NOYB wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

DSK wrote:
NOBBY wrote:
In Florida, your home is your safest investment.

Yeah, at least Florida doesn't have earthquakes...

Oh, not necessarily. There are deep earth faults that go through
Florida. The potential is always there. Slight, but there.


... The tax write-off is a
bonus. I can write off the interest on the home loan, but
not
interest on
my school loan. That just doesn't make sense.


You haven't paid off your school loans yet, and you're floating
a
mortgage for a $900K home? NOBBY, you're a financial train
wreck
waiting
to happen.

Not surprising, really, considering how you come by your
opinions
&
attitudes, but I hope for the sake of your family that you have
good
life insurance.

DSK

Yep, that's our NOYB, risk a nice safe affordable home for his
family,
all for the sake of keeping up with the Jones'.

My neighbor's name isn't Jones. He's German.
I didn't expect you'd get it.


I didn't expect that you would.

And you didn't.....

"P.Fritz" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"DSK" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
I am paying interest-only on a 5-year fixed at 4.25%.

Pardon me for being blunt, but that's friggin' dumb. That's as stupid as
punting on 3rd and short. Do you *want* the economy to take a big chunk
out of your future?

Why is it dumb? I explained in detail why it works well for me. Why pay
interest on an asset that's appreciating at 10-20% per year?

Some people just don't get that owing money is not necessarrily a bad
thing.





... I really can't afford an $825k house (with a conventional
mortgage) while I am still paying off my business loan. But if I
didn't buy when I did, I'd never be able to afford it.

So why do you feel you need an $800K+ house? To show off? To impress
your trophy wife?


Because I wanted to be on the water. Boating access down here is hard to
come by. The parking spaces at the ramps are filled by 9am on the
weekend. Even if you get there early enough, you have to pay a storage
place $100+/ mo. to store your boat on the trailer. Two largest marinas
have closed in the last 3 years stranding me and 500 other boaters
without a space to keep our boats. Renting private in-water slips for a
boat my size runs $300/mo...and the owner could decide tomorrow that he
doesn't want to rent to me anymore. I was keeping the boat in Ft. Myers
Beach, and the seasonal traffic was turning a 30 minute ride to the
marina into an hour and a half.

Now, I hop in my boat and I'm in the gulf in 17 minutes from my back
door.






... When my loan is paid off (in just under 5 years), I can easily
afford such a house.

In 5 years, a lot can happen. Including double-digit inflation and a
real estate crash... but in your case it sounds like a much less severe
scenario will still seal your financial doom.

So what. In 2009, my rate can begin adjusting 2 points per year, upto a
max of 5 points. The worst case scenario: I'll be sitting with a rate of
9.25%...which I can afford to pay since I won't have the $6500/mo.
business loan any longer. ;-)

And you are in a profession that is reasonably recession proof, unlike the
construction biz ;-)

You've also bought into a limited resource......there is a finite limit of
useable waterfront property.







... I look at like this: I'm effectively renting the house for
5 -years (but with a tax write-off!)

Or tying a huge anchor around your neck for the rest of your earning
life.

Not for the rest of my earning life. Just for another 4 1/2 years. Then
I can afford to start paying an additional $4000/mo in principal.

Hell, if you could pay interest only, with the tax deductiblity for life,
at the rate you have, combined with the historical appreciation of real
estate, it would still be a great investment.

Of course...and that's probably what I will do. When I retire, I can sell
my Naples waterfront home and move virtually anywhere in the country that I
choose...since Naples real estate will always outpace 90% of the rest of the
country. I'd be able to reclaim a large chunk of equity upon the sale of
the home without ever having to spend a dime on principal. An alternate
plan is to stay put forever. Then when I retire, I can then do a reverse
mortgage on the new-found equity, and use the proceeds to fund my
retirement.



I have clients that invest in retail properties, they keep everything
mortgaged to the max......they are constantly refinancing, pulling any
appreciation out of the property and reinvesting it in others.

There's a guy on TV selling tapes to tell people how to do just that. :-)
But who needs the tapes? It's not rocket science.

"Harry Krause" wrote in
snip
.. Once I liquidate the asset and
take care of the taxes, I'll have to consider what to do with my sudden
liquidity. Maybe I'll buy into an offshore dental clinic...


Brilliant idea. If there was some way to 'ferry' patients over to Cuba for
treatment and back I'm sure you could make money.