On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 20:53:09 -0500, DSK wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
23 foot sail boat, about, what, 1,100 miles ENE, assuming from Miami,
through the Florida Strait - what's wrong with this picture? :)

Shucks, people have sailed smaller & frailer boats across the Pacific...
around the world, for that matter. People have sailed Sunfish out to
Bimini and back, that's the Bahamas, ain't it?

True. Maybe my sense of adventure is a little dulled by age. :)

Later,

Tom

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 11:17:40 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

I just have a problem with sailing that distance in a 23 footer.

Maybe it's my advanced age. :)

================================

Advanced age comes with advanced wisdom, at least that's what I tell
people. The REAL advantage of advanced age however, is that there
are more younger women.

milan ramaiya wrote:
So, how about this compared to an O'Day 23 or O'Day 27.

IMHO the difference between an O'Day 23 and a Sovereign 23 is going to
depend on the specific individual boats you're looking at. Price,
condition, and included equipment, will all far outweigh the nature of
the boats themselves.

Until you start looking at boats as disparate of type & form as, say, a
Cape Dory and a Santana/Schock, there's really very little functional
difference. Of course, the ad brochures will tell you different!

... Obviously the
27 would be the preferred choice over the 23

Sure, if you're convinced that bigger is better! It will definitely be
roomier and carry more stores, and make somewhat faster transits, and be
marginally steadier in rough weather. It will also be somewhat more
expensive to keep. No trailering the 27!

... but I'm looking at a
bunch of different ones.


That's the smart way to shop. What's your time frame? Getting underway
this spring?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:
milan ramaiya wrote:
... but I'm looking at a
bunch of different ones.


That's the smart way to shop. What's your time frame? Getting
underway
this spring?


Preferably by spring or summer. My biggest constraint is price. If I
could afford it, sure, I'd get a 30-35 footer. So far, I've seen the
Sovereign 23, for $2000 which he said is in good condition, an O'Day 27
for $4000, which is in okay condition, but the engine needs work
(replacement?), and an O'Day 23 for $400, which is in bad shape, has no
sails and no engine. (It's got some hurricane damage.)

I'm considering buying the O'Day 23, and figure if I have a few months
to work on it, I can feed some money into it over time, and make it
really nice. If nothing else, I can turn around and sell it for much
more, and look at something else.

I'd like the O'Day 27 but I don't exactly have $4000 in my bank account
right now, and the Soveriegn is right in my budget, so it's looking
better and better.

Okay, I just found a '68 Star 23 for $1800. I'm gonna go look at that.

I'm not too concerned about the size of the boat. I'm actually looking
forward to some hairy experiences. Hell, that's what makes it
interesting, and it'll make me a better sailer.

this spring?


milan ramaiya wrote:
Preferably by spring or summer. My biggest constraint is price.

Yep. That's everyone's biggest constraint!

... If I
could afford it, sure, I'd get a 30-35 footer.

Getting it isn't the problem. Florida has always been one of the
nation's cheapest boat markets, now after the hurricanes it's a
give-away market.

Outfitting, maintenance, and overhead of simply keeping the thing, all
go up exponentially as the boat gets bigger. So IMHO it's smart to focus
on the smaller end of the scale.


... So far, I've seen the
Sovereign 23, for $2000 which he said is in good condition,

Well, sure. He's selling it, of course it's in *GREAT* condition!

Here's the way to de-code boat-seller's description-
Turn-key, better-than-new condition: the boat is currently afloat and
it's major systems are somewhat functional.

Great condition: The boat was floating last time the seller saw it. It
needs new sails, new running rigging, minor re-wiring, and the engine
can be got running if an expert mechanic tinkers with it for a couple hours.

Professionally maintained: Seller owes lots of money to the boatyard and
cannot reduce his asking price.

Good condition: Boat is scruffy and needs refitting. Engine might run if
you're really lucky, but needs overhaul.

Has full safety equipment: Boat comes with two dry-rotted life jackets
and a packet of out dated flares.

Needs TLC: the boat may be floating, but there has been a family of
pelicans camped out on it. Needs all new rigging and while you're at it,
a new spar or two might be in order. The hull has only a few small
holes, all wiring & plumbing needs to be replaced.

A fixer-upper: you could get it floating if you rent a couple of
gas-powered pumps and a work barge. Boat should have been landfilled
years ago but seller abandoned it to marina and has now been tracked
down by the state.

... an O'Day 27
for $4000, which is in okay condition, but the engine needs work
(replacement?), and an O'Day 23 for $400, which is in bad shape, has no
sails and no engine. (It's got some hurricane damage.)

I'm considering buying the O'Day 23, and figure if I have a few months
to work on it, I can feed some money into it over time, and make it
really nice. If nothing else, I can turn around and sell it for much
more, and look at something else.

Hah! You migh look at the price of sails & running rigging before you
try that. Also, flip through a West marine catalog and run up a little
shopping list of equipment you'd consider necessary.

The saddest, and most common, story is that of the guys who buy boats at
a 'bargain' price and then discover that by the time they've done a
little cleaning, painting, minor repairs, and added some equipment, that
the boat is worth only a fraction of what they've got in it. Remember
that the deal of a lifetime comes along about twice a week.


I'd like the O'Day 27 but I don't exactly have $4000 in my bank account
right now, and the Soveriegn is right in my budget, so it's looking
better and better.

Okay, I just found a '68 Star 23 for $1800. I'm gonna go look at that.

I'm not too concerned about the size of the boat. I'm actually looking
forward to some hairy experiences. Hell, that's what makes it
interesting, and it'll make me a better sailer.


Great attitude. The main suggeestion I have is to go to the library and
read some books on boat inspection & repair. The one to start with is
Ian Nicholson's 'Surveying Small Craft' which is dated but very thorough
and written so that a layman can grasp it all. My concern would be that
you come up with a boat that will not fold up on you in mid-adventure.

Because of the nature of what you're looking for, most of the boats most
suited to your adventure are not going to be on the internet. Instead,
go to boat yards & sailing clubs and poke around. Talk to people on the
docks. If you get invited aboard or to crew, go! It's a learning
opportunity!

Places to look
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/index.html.en
http://www2.boats.com/listing/cache/...src=header_bfs

pair of Seafarer 28s for cheap
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/7/5/77285675.htm
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/7/7/77252377.htm

Morgan 27- a relatively fast and well-built boat
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/3/0/56175130.htm

Here's a serious cruising vessel
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/7/9/75546979.htm

Another good one, priced higher but sounds good
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/0/8/52080308.htm

Remember that it's a buyer's market big-time. If the seller acts
offended at an offer, laugh and wish him luck.

Hope this helps.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

On 28 Dec 2004 07:07:23 -0800, "milan ramaiya"
wrote:


DSK wrote:
milan ramaiya wrote:
... but I'm looking at a
bunch of different ones.


That's the smart way to shop. What's your time frame? Getting
underway
this spring?


Preferably by spring or summer. My biggest constraint is price. If I
could afford it, sure, I'd get a 30-35 footer. So far, I've seen the
Sovereign 23, for $2000 which he said is in good condition, an O'Day 27
for $4000, which is in okay condition, but the engine needs work
(replacement?), and an O'Day 23 for $400, which is in bad shape, has no
sails and no engine. (It's got some hurricane damage.)

I'm considering buying the O'Day 23, and figure if I have a few months
to work on it, I can feed some money into it over time, and make it
really nice. If nothing else, I can turn around and sell it for much
more, and look at something else.

I'd like the O'Day 27 but I don't exactly have $4000 in my bank account
right now, and the Soveriegn is right in my budget, so it's looking
better and better.

Okay, I just found a '68 Star 23 for $1800. I'm gonna go look at that.

I'm not too concerned about the size of the boat. I'm actually looking
forward to some hairy experiences. Hell, that's what makes it
interesting, and it'll make me a better sailer.

States with or near water has places like this:

http://www.urifoundation.org/uriboats/index.html

Really nice boats cheap.

Later,

Tom

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

States with or near water has places like this:

http://www.urifoundation.org/uriboats/index.html

Really nice boats cheap.


Actually, URI works hard to get top dollar for their boats. The sailing
club works them over when they're donated, and they don't mind holding
on to a boat for a long time to get the money out of it. For example,
they've had that MX-20 for at least 2 years. Nice boat but clearly not
much demand for it. And they've gotten into motorboats, expect to see
more listings like that...

Down in Florida, Eckerd has a boat donation/sales program and at least
one fo the boats I gave links to was there. Some years ago my wife and I
almost bought an old classic yawl from them, but my wife was not
enthused about it as a project.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
States with or near water has places like this:

http://www.urifoundation.org/uriboats/index.html

Really nice boats cheap.

Forgot to mention-

That D&M 22 is a great boat. D&M were the predecessor to Tartan and they
build their boats very very well for the era. The 22 is a little
unconventional but a practical layout and they sail quite well (will
easily sail rings around a Catalina 22 for example).

DSK

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 11:56:20 -0500, DSK wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
States with or near water has places like this:

http://www.urifoundation.org/uriboats/index.html

Really nice boats cheap.

Forgot to mention-

That D&M 22 is a great boat. D&M were the predecessor to Tartan and they
build their boats very very well for the era. The 22 is a little
unconventional but a practical layout and they sail quite well (will
easily sail rings around a Catalina 22 for example).

I bow to your superior knowledge of sail boats.

I sailed when I was a kid and owned a Towne class for club racing and
I even sailed in a Marblehead to Bermuda race.

It's really not my thing though.

Later,

Tom

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
I bow to your superior knowledge of sail boats.

It's not just sailboats


I sailed when I was a kid and owned a Towne class for club racing and
I even sailed in a Marblehead to Bermuda race.

It's really not my thing though.


Was your Townie built by Lowell? Did you have one of those old fashioned
spinnakers? They are great boats, really classic. I've been to regattas
up in New England where there were Towns racing, would like to try one.
I have sailed an Indian which IIRC is the Town's big sister.

http://www.doryclub.org/townclass/tchistory.htm

Fresh Breezes- Doug King