Believe me go with the Boston Whaler. I almost lost my life and father
while fishing on my Grady White Marlin 28' which I purchased in Seattle
at Jacobsen's Marine. Take a look at the disaster photos:

http://www.MyBoatSank.com

The photos on this website are of my Grady White Marlin 28. She is a
1990 model and is equipped with twin Yamaha 250 Sal****er Series
outboard engines. She also has a four stroke 9.9hp Yamaha kicker motor
and all of the fishing gear that you could ever dream of. I purchased
the boat at the Seattle Boat Show in late January of 2004 from a local
Grady White dealer, Jacobsen's Marine in the Ballard area of Seattle,
Washington. She sank seven months later on September 3, 2004 while
fishing with my father at the mouth of the Columbia River. Within
eight minutes of leaving the safety of the harbor in Ilwaco, Washington
the boat had slipped enough water through a cracked open seam in our
splash well to fatally condemn our trip. The experience was absolutely
terrifying as my father who is in his eighties and I crossed the
Columbia Bar, the "Graveyard of the Pacific", in a sinking boat. Worse
yet was not knowing why the boat was sinking. Even worse than that was
the response I received from both the dealer, Jacobsen's Marine and the
company, Grady White of North Carolina. In the near future, this
website will provide more photos, details on how My Grady White Sank
and marine safety considerations that will certainly make your boat
safer.

Thanks for letting me know what you think.

Well of course commiserations on your misfortune & at the same time
congrats that all lives are safe.

So expect some of the NG spammers & dealer lackies will run a spirited
defense of this dealer. In this regard I'll warn you of Gould a blatant
deliverer of NG spam here.

Don't be discouraged when they attack you personally & spin this so
it's all your fault.

The internet & these types of groups, if we could get rid of the off
topic simpletons:-), are a new experience for sellers who think they can
still get away with their time honoured don't care attitude.

OMC a huge Co, was sent under because unhappy boater-campers; who were
lied to by dealers & bought their defective engines quickly found out
they weren't alone & didn't have to take being BS'd to by dealers.

Also a member of this NG called Madcow had good success against
Brunswick a few years ago by not accepting BS & telling the world what
was going on, she got her Mercruiser repaired when at first they didn't
want to know her.

I'm skeptical that the manufacturer will care much about a 1990 boat
nor a dealer after your cheque has cleared, so I don't hold out false hope.

However you can & should let the world know of your experience, could
have cost your Dad his life & yours:-)

So good luck & thanks for letting the world know:-)

Gee it seems that part of the world produces a certain type of boat
seller, when does it become a pattern???

K



MyBoatSank.com wrote:
Believe me go with the Boston Whaler. I almost lost my life and father
while fishing on my Grady White Marlin 28' which I purchased in Seattle
at Jacobsen's Marine. Take a look at the disaster photos:

http://www.MyBoatSank.com

The photos on this website are of my Grady White Marlin 28. She is a
1990 model and is equipped with twin Yamaha 250 Sal****er Series
outboard engines. She also has a four stroke 9.9hp Yamaha kicker motor
and all of the fishing gear that you could ever dream of. I purchased
the boat at the Seattle Boat Show in late January of 2004 from a local
Grady White dealer, Jacobsen's Marine in the Ballard area of Seattle,
Washington. She sank seven months later on September 3, 2004 while
fishing with my father at the mouth of the Columbia River. Within
eight minutes of leaving the safety of the harbor in Ilwaco, Washington
the boat had slipped enough water through a cracked open seam in our
splash well to fatally condemn our trip. The experience was absolutely
terrifying as my father who is in his eighties and I crossed the
Columbia Bar, the "Graveyard of the Pacific", in a sinking boat. Worse
yet was not knowing why the boat was sinking. Even worse than that was
the response I received from both the dealer, Jacobsen's Marine and the
company, Grady White of North Carolina. In the near future, this
website will provide more photos, details on how My Grady White Sank
and marine safety considerations that will certainly make your boat
safer.

Thanks for letting me know what you think.

On 7 Dec 2004 00:32:07 -0800, "MyBoatSank.com"
wrote:

Believe me go with the Boston Whaler. I almost lost my life and father
while fishing on my Grady White Marlin 28' which I purchased in Seattle
at Jacobsen's Marine. Take a look at the disaster photos:

http://www.MyBoatSank.com

Out of curiosity, did you have the boat surveyed before you bought it?

Later,

Tom

So expect some of the NG spammers & dealer lackies will run a spirited
defense of this dealer. In this regard I'll warn you of Gould a blatant
deliverer of NG spam here.

This is about the third unprovoked attack this week,

What set you off, again, Karen Smith?


Do you have any remarks that might help this party, or is merely using his
misfortune as an opportunity to lash out at
other people a sufficient reason for your post?

The very good news is that there was no loss of life. To split a very tiny
hair, the boat capsized, rather than sank, but that's no less a disaster.

The Columbia Bar is one of the most treacherous places to take a small boat on
the west coast. Conditions there can get so severe, that the CG runs a
"surfman" school at the location. In surfman school, trainees are taught to
broach 40-foot patrol boats until they roll. All aboard are strapped in place,
and can be under water for several seconds before the self-righting design
turns un-turtle.

Lots of people get in trouble there with inadequate or unseaworthy vessels or
inexperienced seamanship. Sometimes people with adequate skill and proper boats
will simply encounter some terrible luck. If the boat in question were
manufactured with the defect noted in the complaint, then its a miracle it
didn't sink sometime during the first decade.

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 13:03:02 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

You're some piece of work, Smith.

===================================

Ahh yes, the annual meeting of the Harry and Karen Mutual Affection
Society is now called to order.

Is there any new business to discuss?

Thought not.

Motion to adjourn?

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 16:08:31 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

My post was spot-on, Ms.
Smith's was her usual anti-dealer, anti-manufacturer nonsense. Or didn't
you notice?

=================================

The best fisherman troll slowly with the bait carefully presented.

A smart fish will look it over very carefully before biting.

Subject: Boston Whaler or Grady White?
From: "K. Smith"


So expect some of the NG spammers & dealer lackies will run a spirited
defense of this dealer.

Did you even notice it was a 13-14 year old used boat were talking about?

Unless he can show the dealer had full knowledge of a structural fault, how in
the world can the dealer and manufacturer be at fault here?
So far he's posted a bunch of nothing.


Don't be discouraged when they attack you personally & spin this so
it's all your fault.

Based on what he's posted, why do you think it's not?

In this regard I'll warn you of Gould a blatant
deliverer of NG spam here.

Didn't I see Chuck asking Harry to give it a rest when it comes to his poking
at you recently?

Why don't you give it a rest too.

I'm skeptical that the manufacturer will care much about a 1990 boat

Why would you think they should be held responsible? Who knows how many hands
it's passed through since they built it.

Do you stand behind your work after 14 years have passed and others have toyed
with it?

So good luck & thanks for letting the world know:-)

Know what?
So far all that's on the his web site are some pictures an innuendo.
No details at all.

Gee it seems that part of the world produces a certain type of boat
seller, when does it become a pattern???

Yeah, right. Everything is always rosy in the land of OZ.

Capt. Bill

Gene Kearns wrote:
On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 20:55:08 +1100, "K. Smith"
wrote:


So expect some of the NG spammers & dealer lackies will run a spirited
defense of this dealer. In this regard I'll warn you of Gould a blatant
deliverer of NG spam here.



I don't know jack about this dealer (they are 3000 miles from me), but
I own a Grady-White and have had excellent customer service from the
factory (150 miles away). Locally, they are a highly regarded boat.
Grady-White consistently scores at top of class with J.D. Power in
customer satisfaction.... so I don't think your OMC analogy holds.

This would be a dealer lackie I warned you about.

Well the OMC analogy does hold I didn't say it impacted on GW I did say
it was an example of the internet being used to uncover deceptive
behaviour, or in this case he feels the dealer has dumped him.



Don't be discouraged when they attack you personally & spin this so
it's all your fault.



Do you think asking if a survey was had qualifies as an attack?

No I don't however are you saying that things are so bad you "must"
have a survey even when buying from a franchise dealer??? I mean don't
get me wrong I agree with you they're lying scum, but it's a surprise to
see you admit it.

Or
asking *specifically* *what* the dealer and manufacturer said?

No Gene it's what he didn't say when the somewhat shocked owner
returned after the sinking, that's the issue.

Personally, my take on what I have seen is:

There is damage that appears not related to the sinking.
What was the history of this boat? Had it sunk before? Was there
existing damage to the transom? Was there a survey so that the boat
was in a "known" condition?
It appears to me that some of the maintenance items, particularly non
factory items, tell quite a tale... such as cheap electrical
connectors.... in the case of the battery, so poorly done that they
were corroded away and (literally) falling off.
If I were posting, I'd certainly be bold about saying what the dealer
and manufacturer said.... not a "you wouldn't believe"....

All of this leads me to believe that there is a lot about this I
*don't* know...

Gee if you could see that in so many other threads we'd all be better off.

All your questions are OK but regardless this person's complaint is
"after" the sinking, the dealer could have probably done the right
thing, kept the customer, maintained their dealer reputation AND made a
heap out of the insurance Co fixing the boat & motors, but no no no


The internet & these types of groups, if we could get rid of the off
topic simpletons:-), are a new experience for sellers who think they can
still get away with their time honoured don't care attitude.



As tired as I am of OT politico crap, this statement would be
appropriate for a warranty item.... but is specious with respect to
out-of-warranty used items....

No it's not!!! this person has what he perceives as bad service, good
on him for telling us!!!!

The dealer added to an already stressed situation for the owner when
the dealer could have actually helped.



OMC a huge Co, was sent under because unhappy boater-campers; who were
lied to by dealers & bought their defective engines quickly found out
they weren't alone & didn't have to take being BS'd to by dealers.



Agreed, but what does the failure of one company have to do with
another.... especially, when no link has been suggested or proven? OMC
scored poorly in the court of public opinion and (except for Skipper
and this recent poster) G-W has scored well above average or better.

I was using it as an example of how now people who are unhappy with the
treatment they receive can do something about it, i.e. tell the world:-)
For years with VRO, gearboxes Ficht etc lying OMC dealers got away with
it, but with the internet people could tell their story & most
importantly find out they're not alone.



Also a member of this NG called Madcow had good success against
Brunswick a few years ago by not accepting BS & telling the world what
was going on, she got her Mercruiser repaired when at first they didn't
want to know her.



IIRC, her boat was nearly new and under warranty, too.... and
Mercruiser KNEW about the problem, but tried to keep it out of common
knowledge.

AND they initially tried to fob Madcow off, dishonestly???? it was only
when she stood her ground she was taken seriously. I don't suggest her
online complaints, nor her coast guard connections were the only reason
but I do suggest they helped her get a good outcome.


I'm skeptical that the manufacturer will care much about a 1990 boat
nor a dealer after your cheque has cleared, so I don't hold out false hope.



Nor should you. A 14, soon to be 15, year old boat that has no
recorded history or condition(as far as we know) is the unknown
quantity, not the dealer or perhaps, manufacturer....... both of
which probably know a lot more about this matter than we do. At least
they have heard *both* sides.

Again, my take on this is that we all need a lot more information on
this matter before jumping to any conclusions.

As a parting shot, I will mention that I have drilled through the
transom on my G-W and it is *at least* 2 inches thick.... that would
be 50+mm for you....not the sort of thing you would expect to see
break as this one apparently did..... if it were not rotten or subject
to some sort of extreme stress...

Are you just a unionist or something Gene?? I didn't say the sinking
was for a "particular" cause at all, the issue is the dealer saw trouble
& like all dealers didn't want to do the right thing & dumped the owner,
that's the issue.

As I said dealer lackies are why dealers get away with it.


K

Gould 0738 wrote:
So expect some of the NG spammers & dealer lackies will run a spirited
defense of this dealer. In this regard I'll warn you of Gould a blatant
deliverer of NG spam here.

& this would be the spammer I warned you about & below is what you're
up against, Chinese whispers.

This is about the third unprovoked attack this week,

What set you off, again, Karen Smith?

Your endless OT political posts!!!


Do you have any remarks that might help this party, or is merely using his
misfortune as an opportunity to lash out at
other people a sufficient reason for your post?

I'm encouraging this person to stick with it.

The very good news is that there was no loss of life. To split a very tiny
hair, the boat capsized, rather than sank, but that's no less a disaster.

If you actually knew anything about boats of that type, you'd know they
nearly always roll over once there's some real water aboard. I guess you
think if you can spin it to a capsize on a dangerous bar you can spam
the dealer's post sinking behaviour away??? Nice try though.

The Columbia Bar is one of the most treacherous places to take a small boat on
the west coast. Conditions there can get so severe, that the CG runs a
"surfman" school at the location. In surfman school, trainees are taught to
broach 40-foot patrol boats until they roll. All aboard are strapped in place,
and can be under water for several seconds before the self-righting design
turns un-turtle.

Yeah yeah you blokes are all the same, all so brave, give it up Chuck
if it was rough then it was rough but it sank!!!! It didn't seem rough
in the rescue pics.


Lots of people get in trouble there with inadequate or unseaworthy vessels or
inexperienced seamanship. Sometimes people with adequate skill and proper boats
will simply encounter some terrible luck. If the boat in question were
manufactured with the defect noted in the complaint, then its a miracle it
didn't sink sometime during the first decade.

The owner bought it comparatively recently from one of your mates, when
he got into trouble for whatever reason(s) your dealers just dumped him,
that's the complaint & good on him for telling us about it.

K

Gould 0738 wrote:
What set you off, again, Karen Smith?

Your endless OT political posts!!!


Fair enough. Shall we expect the same abuse to be aimed at all the other people
who posted OT here, or are some of us particularly deserving targets because
our politics don't suit your own?

MY politics have nothing to do with anything, this is a boating NG, so
if you & about 3 others just stop actually starting OT threads, then the
rest will go away.



Are personal attacks more on-topic than political debates?

The personal attacks you complain of are on topic:-) you are a spammer,
what about the heater spam the other day??? You see yourself as someone
you are not Chuck, you are a big OT poster, I've made an effort to
comply with the truce instituted after your election, but you & a few
others seem to have used the hiatus as an opportunity to ramp up the OT
threads.


Logical question, however: if your bitch is with political posts, why do you
conjure up weird accusations in on-topic threads?

Again if you feel I'm out of line then defend yourself, I can & will
point to your deceptive spam I can & will point to your OT threads, if
you wish I'll even point to your abuse.

Why would you begin attacking me in a thread before I had even made a single
statement on the subject?

Why?? I need your permission??? I ask why would you continually start
OT political threads?? at least my comments are on topic.


Would you prefer that I give up posting on-topic altogether?

Only the off topic stuff I can & have over time learned to live with
your parroting of deceptive marketing spam & have even learned to
tolerate some of your other views (white suburbs indeed that still
takes some topping)


To split a very tiny

hair, the boat capsized, rather than sank, but that's no less a disaster.

If you actually knew anything about boats of that type, you'd know they


nearly always roll over once there's some real water aboard.


And if you knew from shoeshine, you'd know there's a difference between sinking
and capsizing. In a boat of any type. As I said, a capsizing is no less a
disaster.

In the context you were trying to spin it that the boat got rolled over
on the bar, it didn't the owner was clear it was taking water, once they
get a bit in them they roll over, indeed save a well managed dead calm
deceptive marketing demonstration they will not remain upright when flooded.


Here's some help for you. From Lenfesty's
"The Sailor's Illustrated Dictionary", (available at a fine nautical bookstore
near you for $24.95 US grin)

Capsize: (n) 1. To tun over. Most commonly it means the inadvertant turning
over of a boat. To capsize an oil drum is to turn it over, usually to gain
access to the bung.......2. A knot which changes its structure under strain is
said to capsize.

I must say I get a giggle when you tell us about "English":-) that's funny.

The boat rolled over as the inevitable "consequence" of taking on water
from a leak (it seems around the transom area but....????), it was not
the "inadvertent turning over of a boat".


Lenfesty doesn't even have an entry for "sink", it's so commonly understood.
Merriam-Webster confirms that the most common understanding for the word "sink"
is "To go to the bottom."

If not towed in promptly that boat would have sunk. Even much larger
boats can linger in an inverted position as part of the sinking process.


The fact that the creator of the "Give me a free boat, all my money back, maybe
both, and then I'll take down this damaging, one-side-of-the-story website,"
doesn't know the difference between sinking and capsizing, either, might
indicate that some of the other facts in the story could be less than accurate
as well.

So please paste where you got this from, you have no idea do you??? I
bet he was upset I bet even a bit unreasonable, so what??? the dealer
should have helped, it wouldn't have compromised the dealer indeed could
only have helped all concerned.


I'll now hold my breath while you castigate several other regular posters who
*have* directly challenged the website author's apparent lack of discerning
consumerism in purchashing a highly modified, 14 year old boat, (possibly
without survey), in the first place. That will be me in the corner of your
monitor, turning a suitable shade of blue.

You still don't get it do you, the boat filled with water that may or
may not be down to the manufacturer, the dealer, the boats age, boat's
prior accidents, weather & yes the owner, but the dealer dumping him
when he needed them is typical.



The owner bought it comparatively recently from one of your mates, when
he got into trouble for whatever reason(s) your dealers just dumped him,
that's the complaint & good on him for telling us about it.


I wonder if this is the first time he used the boat following purchase. If not,
what type of damage may have possibly occured after the 14 year-old used boat
was sold and the day of the capsize? Should the dealer offer free lifetime
repairs, or vessel replacement, to purchasers who buy a used boat "As Is" and
then (perhaps) run it aground or damage it while launching at a later date?

Chuck please try to stop a second, all that might be right but the
dealer just leaving him unsupported isn't.

He's unhappy & I support him telling us about it, after all you happily
regurgitate deceptive dealer sales pitches all the time here, a bit of
comes around is welcome.


Neither of us knows all the facts. I speculate there are things that *could*
have happened, but you applaud the damning website, say it's entirely the used
boat dealer's fault in any event, that a dealership you're not acquainted with
is a lousy place to do business, and that anybody else connected with the
marine industry is equally a piece of crap.

Which of us is being more reasonable, would you think?

Me:-)

K