"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...

Really support our troops. Join "Soldiers for The Truth".
http://www.sftt.org/


Awesome link, Chuck! I especially liked the Fallujah 11/22/04 Update. The
"terrorists" (aka--insurgents) were fighting from (or storing arms in) 60%
of the Mosques in Fallujah. That (plus the fact that they are not wearing
an identifiable uniform, and are playing dead and then shooting our troops)
makes them "unlawful combatants"...which means they're not entitled to the
protections provided under the Geneva Convention. In fact, if you read one
of the captions " Under international law the improper use of privileged
buildings to include churches and mosques, is a war crime".

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 17:27:21 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 13:27:29 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in
message
~~ snippage ~~

But they are good boats - no doubt about it.

I still wouldn't trade my Contender for one. :)

Even in 8 foot confused seas, with two dead batteries, and a leaky
live-well
thru-hull? ;-)

Sea//Tow. :)

That's true. Plus, if you were sinking, the Coast Guard could always come
out to help you in *their* Boston Whaler. ;-)

With Honda engines.

Go figure. :)

Later,

Tom

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 15:38:03 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:
============================

Where did you catch it, and what kind of bait?

Off the doubles (two condos side-by-side) by FMB. 13 ft. of water. Bait:
catfish chunk (mid-section). 5/0 Owner hook. 80 lb. Fluorocarbon leader
tied uni-to-uni to the 30 lb. Momoi. Free-lined with no weight. I had
live
thread herrings out on the bottom and a foot under the surface, but with
no
takers. I caught the fish in late April/early May of this year.

You should join the FMB Tarpon Hunters club...or at least monitor channel
6
on the VHF from mid-March through June. You'll see 10-20 boats bunched up
anywhere from 1/4 mile to 2 miles off FMB and south Sanibel. If the boats
are drifting, then idle *slowly* up-current from them and get in the end
of
the line. If they're anchored, then idle in *slowly* and make sure you're
at least a couple of hundred *yards* aways from another anchored boat.

Best bait: catfish chunks, spanish mackeral chunks (catch them now and
freeze them), live threadfin herring (greenies).

=======================

Good information, thanks. I can run down to FMB in about 45 mins from
here but had not realized there were big Tarpon offshore there.

From mid-April until the end of May, there's probably not a better tarpon
fishery anywhere else in Florida (aside from that zoo that they call Boca
Grande Pass). This year, the trick was to get the tarpon up and revived
before a 15 foot hammerhead snatched him from you.

Harry,
Me thinks: Wayne B was doing the trolling, and he caught one. :-)
Paul

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
news:1102473781.3d7c816cdbba10c2e8377b28a3ee732d@t eranews...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 16:08:31 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:


My post was spot-on, Ms. Smith's was her usual anti-dealer,
anti-manufacturer nonsense. Or didn't you notice?


=================================

The best fisherman troll slowly with the bait carefully presented.

A smart fish will look it over very carefully before biting.


She wasn't trolling...she was once again trashing dealer and
manufacturers. The problem arises when some newbie reads her crap and
believes it.

"MikeG" wrote in message
ews.com...

Ooooop's sorry, I thought the thread was about boats, Grady Whites and
Boston Whalers. Silly me.

--
MikeG
Heirloom Woods

Blame Chuck. His signature line was OT. You know, sort of like "heirloom
woods" is off-topic.


www.heirloom-woods.net

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 17:56:06 +0000, NOYB wrote:


Awesome link, Chuck! I especially liked the Fallujah 11/22/04 Update.
The "terrorists" (aka--insurgents) were fighting from (or storing arms in)
60% of the Mosques in Fallujah. That (plus the fact that they are not
wearing an identifiable uniform, and are playing dead and then shooting
our troops) makes them "unlawful combatants"...which means they're not
entitled to the protections provided under the Geneva Convention.

Repeating this over and over, does not make it true. "Unlawful
combatants" *are* protected under the Geneva Conventions. It is true that
they may not be afforded "prisoner of war" status, but they are protected.

http://www.ciss.ca/Comment_GulfWarPOWs.htm

In
fact, if you read one of the captions " Under international law the
improper use of privileged buildings to include churches and mosques, is a
war crime".

Gene Kearns wrote:
On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 18:26:02 +1100, "K. Smith"
wrote:



Or

asking *specifically* *what* the dealer and manufacturer said?

No Gene it's what he didn't say when the somewhat shocked owner
returned after the sinking, that's the issue.



No, K, it is all about what this poster has refused to say.... it
hides the *whole* truth...


Very altruistic Gene, so now apply the same standards to the dealers &
we'll be fine.



All of this leads me to believe that there is a lot about this I
*don't* know...


Having re-examined the photographs I think I know why the manufacturer
and the dealer declined.


All your questions are OK but regardless this person's complaint is
"after" the sinking, the dealer could have probably done the right
thing, kept the customer, maintained their dealer reputation AND made a
heap out of the insurance Co fixing the boat & motors, but no no no


Do you think the "right thing" is for a seller and/or manufacturer to
perpetually warranty a product? Think carefully about this..... can a
owner, by their own actions, void a warranty? (Feel free to extend the
meaning of "warranty", in this context, to "product liability.") If a
warranty is *ever* voided, does the warranty become re-instated when
the item is re-sold? Who (and perhaps, how) are the ensuing purchasers
to insure that the product is still subject to warranty?

OK Gene of course the owner can void the warranty & no the GW are after
9 yrs I'd say well out if it, but the last very recent sale dealer not so.

I'm not suggesting the owner be "given" anything & some owners who
maliciously damage then make fraudulant claims deserve to be "given" 3
yrs however, all this is dependent upon the dealer still playing their part.

Honestly, the dealer could have made some money out of this unfortunate
incident, but they chose to just behave like dealers.




The internet & these types of groups, if we could get rid of the off
topic simpletons:-), are a new experience for sellers who think they can
still get away with their time honoured don't care attitude.



As tired as I am of OT politico crap, this statement would be
appropriate for a warranty item.... but is specious with respect to
out-of-warranty used items....

No it's not!!! this person has what he perceives as bad service, good
on him for telling us!!!!



YES, it IS.... and for the very reason that this poster refused to say
WHY the manufacturer declined to fix this boat.... it is all there in
the photographs.... can you see it?

Looking at the obvious, tell us what you think this poster would have
considered "good" service.....

Bad on him for telling us HALF THE STORY.....

The owner only knows half the story!!! the dealer was the recent seller
& should have explained the situation, even offered to get an
independent assessment (the insurance will be doing that anyway), then
the owner wouldn't feel like he's been abandoned.


The dealer added to an already stressed situation for the owner when
the dealer could have actually helped.



Should have is at issue, here, not could have......

OK if dealers think they can just take the money & then not offer any
backup they're mistaken, but before you explode I'm perfectly happy for
them to charge for that backup & perfectly happy for people to make
money doing whatever the owner asks for & is prepared to pay for.



Nor should you. A 14, soon to be 15, year old boat that has no
recorded history or condition(as far as we know) is the unknown
quantity, not the dealer or perhaps, manufacturer....... both of
which probably know a lot more about this matter than we do. At least
they have heard *both* sides.

Again, my take on this is that we all need a lot more information on
this matter before jumping to any conclusions.

As a parting shot, I will mention that I have drilled through the
transom on my G-W and it is *at least* 2 inches thick.... that would
be 50+mm for you....not the sort of thing you would expect to see
break as this one apparently did..... if it were not rotten or subject
to some sort of extreme stress...


This is where I started listening to myself..... the proof and
explanation was there, if you know Grady-White boats....


Are you just a unionist or something Gene?? I didn't say the sinking
was for a "particular" cause at all, the issue is the dealer saw trouble
& like all dealers didn't want to do the right thing & dumped the owner,
that's the issue.

As I said dealer lackies are why dealers get away with it.



No, but you should have, IMHO the sinking WAS almost assuredly for a
PARTICULAR CAUSE (the photographs seem to tell the tale).....which
would NOT be the fault of, caused by, or reasonably warranted by the
manufacturer or dealer...... and was abundantly obvious to this buyer,
if he knew anything about Grady-White boats...

Gene you do & it's reasonable to say the dealer does too, but why
assume the owner does??? he'd only just bought the boat.

Again if you were the dealer would you have had any trouble resolving
the problem?? to the owner's & insurer's satisfaction??? & all the while
making a nice profit for yourself; as you should???


and if you aren't bright enough to figure it out by yourself, I'll
thank you to quit calling me or associating me with the nature of a
spammer, dealer lackey, unionist, or describing the dealer as "mine"
or my "mate."

Gee Gene you never seem to show me the same, but just kill file me &
we'll be fine.

You have already made up your, principally, binary mind that All
Owner=Good and All Dealer=BAD, so there is no point in the pretense of
having a coherent discussion. However, I'll point out, again, that
you have only heard ONE side of this matter, since the poster has
clearly and carefully omitted any mention of WHY the dealer and
manufacturer declined. This should seem very odd, even to you, that
the poor wronged owner should decline to publish the demeaning,
despicable, and cowardly words of the ALL BAD dealer. (Doesn't that
seem just a *little* odd?)

Again Gene you are applying one standard to a traumatised owner &
another to dealers, they lie for a living yet you never bother to say
anything about that.


Think of it this way.... you design, build, manufacture, and sell
your diesel outboard. An owner of an outboard that you originally
manufactured comes back to you with a 15 year old out-of-warranty
broken engine and demands compensation. He is not the original
purchaser. Under what conditions would you refuse to "do the right
thing" and compensate this owner. Be creative... this poster certainly
was...


He'd get nothing for free; however he'd leave knowing we listened,
explained our position & offered all we could to satisfy him that we are
not at fault. That might have involved us in some small amount of time &
minimal cost, the difference being that the owner would have not felt we
just dumped them. Hopefully might have sold another engine:-)


K

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
K. Smith wrote:
Gene Kearns wrote:

All your questions are OK but regardless this person's complaint is
"after" the sinking, the dealer could have probably done the right
thing, kept the customer, maintained their dealer reputation AND made a
heap out of the insurance Co fixing the boat & motors, but no no no



Do you think the "right thing" is for a seller and/or manufacturer to
perpetually warranty a product? Think carefully about this..... can a
owner, by their own actions, void a warranty? (Feel free to extend the
meaning of "warranty", in this context, to "product liability.") If a
warranty is *ever* voided, does the warranty become re-instated when
the item is re-sold? Who (and perhaps, how) are the ensuing purchasers
to insure that the product is still subject to warranty?


OK Gene of course the owner can void the warranty & no the GW are
after 9 yrs I'd say well out if it, but the last very recent sale dealer
not so.


What kind of warranty do you think most dealers offer on a 14-year-old
boat?

Typically, none. Possibly 30 days.

What kind of warranty do you think most private individuals selling their
boats offer to their purchasers?

Typically, none.

There's no obligation on the part of the dealer in this case, UNLESS the
dealer offered some sort of long-term written warranty.

Or if he knew of a defect and intentionally covered it up. Dealers are held
to higher standards than private individuals since they're considered
"experts" in the field.

Subject: Boston Whaler or Grady White?
From: Wayne.B

Good information, thanks. I can run down to FMB in about 45 mins from
here but had not realized there were big Tarpon offshore there.


There's big tarpon all along this coast.

Capt. Bill

Ooooop's sorry, I thought the thread was about boats, Grady Whites and
Boston Whalers. Silly me.

It is. It was diverted to a sidebar by an OT remark from NOYB and my response
to him. He should have started an OT thread, not cluttered this one.