On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 21:41:05 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 16:08:31 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

My post was spot-on, Ms.
Smith's was her usual anti-dealer, anti-manufacturer nonsense. Or didn't
you notice?

=================================

The best fisherman troll slowly with the bait carefully presented.

A smart fish will look it over very carefully before biting.

Point well made.

Although I, being much smarter than the average fish, can generally
out think the critters.

Hmmmm - on second thought.....

Later,

Tom

On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 07:00:42 -0500, "Tuuk"
wrote:

Ya,, tom

You better have a second thought,,,

lol

not the brightest bulb on the tree,, are ya,,,

Never claimed to be.

Later,

Tom

"MyBoatSank.com" wrote in message
ups.com...
Believe me go with the Boston Whaler. I almost lost my life and father
while fishing on my Grady White Marlin 28' which I purchased in Seattle
at Jacobsen's Marine. Take a look at the disaster photos:

http://www.MyBoatSank.com

The photos on this website are of my Grady White Marlin 28. She is a
1990 model and is equipped with twin Yamaha 250 Sal****er Series
outboard engines. She also has a four stroke 9.9hp Yamaha kicker motor
and all of the fishing gear that you could ever dream of. I purchased
the boat at the Seattle Boat Show in late January of 2004 from a local
Grady White dealer, Jacobsen's Marine in the Ballard area of Seattle,
Washington. She sank seven months later on September 3, 2004 while
fishing with my father at the mouth of the Columbia River. Within
eight minutes of leaving the safety of the harbor in Ilwaco, Washington
the boat had slipped enough water through a cracked open seam in our
splash well to fatally condemn our trip. The experience was absolutely
terrifying as my father who is in his eighties and I crossed the
Columbia Bar, the "Graveyard of the Pacific", in a sinking boat. Worse
yet was not knowing why the boat was sinking. Even worse than that was
the response I received from both the dealer, Jacobsen's Marine and the
company, Grady White of North Carolina. In the near future, this
website will provide more photos, details on how My Grady White Sank
and marine safety considerations that will certainly make your boat
safer.

Thanks for letting me know what you think.


I've owned (in order) a 13' Whaler, a 22' Whaler, and a 23' Grady-White. I
currently own a 17' Whaler and 25' Whaler. My dad owns a 15' Whaler, and my
brother owns an 18' Whaler. For the exact reason that you give, I prefer the
Whaler. I loved the lay-out of the Grady (easier to fish), but the ride was
worse than the 22 or 25 Whaler, it was wetter, and it wasn't unsinkable.

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 12:50:20 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

I've owned (in order) a 13' Whaler, a 22' Whaler, and a 23' Grady-White. I
currently own a 17' Whaler and 25' Whaler. My dad owns a 15' Whaler, and my
brother owns an 18' Whaler. For the exact reason that you give, I prefer the
Whaler. I loved the lay-out of the Grady (easier to fish), but the ride was
worse than the 22 or 25 Whaler, it was wetter, and it wasn't unsinkable.

Prior to the Contender, I was looking for a new, larger boat for
longer offshore trips and trips outside of the islands. Boston Whaler
was high on my list of boats, but the pricing was outrageous compared
to other boats I looked at. I could certainly afford one - it just
went against my natural reluctance to pay the biggest bucks for
something. That and Whaler didn't really make a boat similar to the
Fountain/Contender/Regulator/Mako type of center consoles with the
enclosed cuddy in the bow (although they did once). I also didn't
care for the lack of room in the Outrage series - the cockpit seemed
very cramped.

But they are good boats - no doubt about it.

I still wouldn't trade my Contender for one. :)

Later,

Tom

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 12:50:20 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

I've owned (in order) a 13' Whaler, a 22' Whaler, and a 23' Grady-White.
I
currently own a 17' Whaler and 25' Whaler. My dad owns a 15' Whaler, and
my
brother owns an 18' Whaler. For the exact reason that you give, I prefer
the
Whaler. I loved the lay-out of the Grady (easier to fish), but the ride
was
worse than the 22 or 25 Whaler, it was wetter, and it wasn't unsinkable.

Prior to the Contender, I was looking for a new, larger boat for
longer offshore trips and trips outside of the islands. Boston Whaler
was high on my list of boats, but the pricing was outrageous compared
to other boats I looked at. I could certainly afford one - it just
went against my natural reluctance to pay the biggest bucks for
something. That and Whaler didn't really make a boat similar to the
Fountain/Contender/Regulator/Mako type of center consoles with the
enclosed cuddy in the bow (although they did once).

That's the one that I have. 25' Boston Whaler Outrage Cuddy. It's great
with the kids because they can escape the sun or bad weather and take a nap.
To be honest though, I'd rather have Whaler's 28' Outrage from 1999-2002.
It's a center console...but the console is really just a big cabin plunked
down in the middle of the boat. It provides true 360 degree fishability
without having to step up onto a narrow walkaround platform like a Grady
requires. Contender makes a 31' and a 36' with this same configuration...but
Contender's cabins are sleeker, thus providing more fishability above decks.
Tarpon, Kings, and Permit are three fish that will circle your boat several
times while fighting them. If you happen to be anchored, you better be able
to pass that rod under the anchor line when the fish goes under it.

I prefer fishing for tarpon from the 17' for that very reason. The biggest
one I caught weighed about 100 lbs. I fought him on spinning gear (Penn
7500 SS and 30 lb test) for 45 minutes...and he passed under the anchor line
7 times.



I also didn't
care for the lack of room in the Outrage series - the cockpit seemed
very cramped.

Yes, the new ones are tight. I believe that Whaler has mislabeled them, by
counting the added length from the pulpit and Euro transom. The 24' has the
cockpit and walkaround room of a 21-footer. The 27' has the room of a
24-footer, and the 32' has the room of a 29-footer. When you take that into
account, then the Whaler *really* looks expensive when you compare it to
boats with equal room. Nevertheless, I'd buy one...but I'd wait until it was
4 or 5 years old and a little bit cheaper. Once the initial depreciation is
out of a new Whaler, you can sell it several years later for almost the same
price that you paid for it.


But they are good boats - no doubt about it.

I still wouldn't trade my Contender for one. :)


Even in 8 foot confused seas, with two dead batteries, and a leaky live-well
thru-hull? ;-)

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 13:27:29 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

I prefer fishing for tarpon from the 17' for that very reason. The biggest
one I caught weighed about 100 lbs. I fought him on spinning gear (Penn
7500 SS and 30 lb test) for 45 minutes...and he passed under the anchor line
7 times.

============================

Where did you catch it, and what kind of bait?

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 13:27:29 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

I prefer fishing for tarpon from the 17' for that very reason. The
biggest
one I caught weighed about 100 lbs. I fought him on spinning gear (Penn
7500 SS and 30 lb test) for 45 minutes...and he passed under the anchor
line
7 times.

============================

Where did you catch it, and what kind of bait?

Off the doubles (two condos side-by-side) by FMB. 13 ft. of water. Bait:
catfish chunk (mid-section). 5/0 Owner hook. 80 lb. Fluorocarbon leader
tied uni-to-uni to the 30 lb. Momoi. Free-lined with no weight. I had live
thread herrings out on the bottom and a foot under the surface, but with no
takers. I caught the fish in late April/early May of this year.

You should join the FMB Tarpon Hunters club...or at least monitor channel 6
on the VHF from mid-March through June. You'll see 10-20 boats bunched up
anywhere from 1/4 mile to 2 miles off FMB and south Sanibel. If the boats
are drifting, then idle *slowly* up-current from them and get in the end of
the line. If they're anchored, then idle in *slowly* and make sure you're
at least a couple of hundred *yards* aways from another anchored boat.

Best bait: catfish chunks, spanish mackeral chunks (catch them now and
freeze them), live threadfin herring (greenies).

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 13:27:29 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 12:50:20 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

I've owned (in order) a 13' Whaler, a 22' Whaler, and a 23' Grady-White.
I
currently own a 17' Whaler and 25' Whaler. My dad owns a 15' Whaler, and
my
brother owns an 18' Whaler. For the exact reason that you give, I prefer
the
Whaler. I loved the lay-out of the Grady (easier to fish), but the ride
was
worse than the 22 or 25 Whaler, it was wetter, and it wasn't unsinkable.

Prior to the Contender, I was looking for a new, larger boat for
longer offshore trips and trips outside of the islands. Boston Whaler
was high on my list of boats, but the pricing was outrageous compared
to other boats I looked at. I could certainly afford one - it just
went against my natural reluctance to pay the biggest bucks for
something. That and Whaler didn't really make a boat similar to the
Fountain/Contender/Regulator/Mako type of center consoles with the
enclosed cuddy in the bow (although they did once).

That's the one that I have. 25' Boston Whaler Outrage Cuddy. It's great
with the kids because they can escape the sun or bad weather and take a nap.
To be honest though, I'd rather have Whaler's 28' Outrage from 1999-2002.
It's a center console...but the console is really just a big cabin plunked
down in the middle of the boat. It provides true 360 degree fishability
without having to step up onto a narrow walkaround platform like a Grady
requires. Contender makes a 31' and a 36' with this same configuration...but
Contender's cabins are sleeker, thus providing more fishability above decks.
Tarpon, Kings, and Permit are three fish that will circle your boat several
times while fighting them. If you happen to be anchored, you better be able
to pass that rod under the anchor line when the fish goes under it.

I've never had that problem although I've come close. Normally, I'm
fishing with guests and I maneuver the boat to prevent that kind of
problem.

I prefer fishing for tarpon from the 17' for that very reason. The biggest
one I caught weighed about 100 lbs. I fought him on spinning gear (Penn
7500 SS and 30 lb test) for 45 minutes...and he passed under the anchor line
7 times.

I also didn't
care for the lack of room in the Outrage series - the cockpit seemed
very cramped.

Yes, the new ones are tight. I believe that Whaler has mislabeled them, by
counting the added length from the pulpit and Euro transom. The 24' has the
cockpit and walkaround room of a 21-footer. The 27' has the room of a
24-footer, and the 32' has the room of a 29-footer. When you take that into
account, then the Whaler *really* looks expensive when you compare it to
boats with equal room. Nevertheless, I'd buy one...but I'd wait until it was
4 or 5 years old and a little bit cheaper. Once the initial depreciation is
out of a new Whaler, you can sell it several years later for almost the same
price that you paid for it..

Good point.

But they are good boats - no doubt about it.

I still wouldn't trade my Contender for one. :)

Even in 8 foot confused seas, with two dead batteries, and a leaky live-well
thru-hull? ;-)

Sea//Tow. :)

Later,

Tom

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 13:27:29 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in
message
. ..
On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 12:50:20 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

I've owned (in order) a 13' Whaler, a 22' Whaler, and a 23'
Grady-White.
I
currently own a 17' Whaler and 25' Whaler. My dad owns a 15' Whaler, and
my
brother owns an 18' Whaler. For the exact reason that you give, I prefer
the
Whaler. I loved the lay-out of the Grady (easier to fish), but the ride
was
worse than the 22 or 25 Whaler, it was wetter, and it wasn't unsinkable.

Prior to the Contender, I was looking for a new, larger boat for
longer offshore trips and trips outside of the islands. Boston Whaler
was high on my list of boats, but the pricing was outrageous compared
to other boats I looked at. I could certainly afford one - it just
went against my natural reluctance to pay the biggest bucks for
something. That and Whaler didn't really make a boat similar to the
Fountain/Contender/Regulator/Mako type of center consoles with the
enclosed cuddy in the bow (although they did once).

That's the one that I have. 25' Boston Whaler Outrage Cuddy. It's great
with the kids because they can escape the sun or bad weather and take a
nap.
To be honest though, I'd rather have Whaler's 28' Outrage from 1999-2002.
It's a center console...but the console is really just a big cabin plunked
down in the middle of the boat. It provides true 360 degree fishability
without having to step up onto a narrow walkaround platform like a Grady
requires. Contender makes a 31' and a 36' with this same
configuration...but
Contender's cabins are sleeker, thus providing more fishability above
decks.
Tarpon, Kings, and Permit are three fish that will circle your boat
several
times while fighting them. If you happen to be anchored, you better be
able
to pass that rod under the anchor line when the fish goes under it.

I've never had that problem although I've come close. Normally, I'm
fishing with guests and I maneuver the boat to prevent that kind of
problem.

I prefer fishing for tarpon from the 17' for that very reason. The
biggest
one I caught weighed about 100 lbs. I fought him on spinning gear (Penn
7500 SS and 30 lb test) for 45 minutes...and he passed under the anchor
line
7 times.

I also didn't
care for the lack of room in the Outrage series - the cockpit seemed
very cramped.

Yes, the new ones are tight. I believe that Whaler has mislabeled them,
by
counting the added length from the pulpit and Euro transom. The 24' has
the
cockpit and walkaround room of a 21-footer. The 27' has the room of a
24-footer, and the 32' has the room of a 29-footer. When you take that
into
account, then the Whaler *really* looks expensive when you compare it to
boats with equal room. Nevertheless, I'd buy one...but I'd wait until it
was
4 or 5 years old and a little bit cheaper. Once the initial depreciation
is
out of a new Whaler, you can sell it several years later for almost the
same
price that you paid for it..

Good point.

But they are good boats - no doubt about it.

I still wouldn't trade my Contender for one. :)

Even in 8 foot confused seas, with two dead batteries, and a leaky
live-well
thru-hull? ;-)

Sea//Tow. :)


That's true. Plus, if you were sinking, the Coast Guard could always come
out to help you in *their* Boston Whaler. ;-)

MY politics have nothing to do with anything, this is a boating NG, so
if you & about 3 others just stop actually starting OT threads, then the
rest will go away.

There are over 20 posters who start OT threads in the NG, most of them *start*
more OT threads than I, and I'm surely not in 4th place. If 3 of the 20 posters
cease and desist, the other 17 will just dry up and blow away? Remember my
90-day experiment last spring? I ducked out of the NG entirely for 90 days, and
when I returned the situation was *worse* than when I left. Don't hand me some
crap about being the cause of 1/3 or 1/4 of the OT posts.

Fact is, you don't like me much. No big deal. I don't care a lot for you,
either. One of us doesn't make a habit of seeking out the other to make
unprovoked personal attacks. Which of us do you suppose that would be?

The personal attacks you complain of are on topic:-) you are a spammer,
what about the heater spam the other day??? You see yourself as someone
you are not Chuck, you are a big OT poster, I've made an effort to
comply with the truce instituted after your election, but you & a few
others seem to have used the hiatus as an opportunity to ramp up the OT
threads.

You weren't heard from for *months* before the election. Do an experiment. Go
to Google and check the participation in OT threads since the election. Then
reconsider your statement.

How is a report detailing the process of installing a diesel heater in a boat,
"spam"? Because I mentioned the name of the manufacturer of the product? That's
actually an important part of the story, as the DIY kit is, AFIK, unique to
that company.

While in Google, run a search on Karen Smith and "spam". Go back many, many,
years. Extremely revealing.


Logical question, however: if your bitch is with political posts, why do
you
conjure up weird accusations in on-topic threads?

Again if you feel I'm out of line then defend yourself, I can & will
point to your deceptive spam I can & will point to your OT threads, if
you wish I'll even point to your abuse.

You miss the point, Karen. If I "defend" myself, then this thread ceases to be
about this incident with the Grady White and its comparison to Boston Whaler.
It becomes OT. Ask yourself who chose to take it there? Did I toss in some
unprovoked, snide personal comments, or did you?

If you want to complain about an OT thread, do so within the context of that
thread. Chasing somebody around the NG yelling "OT Spammer!" in threads where
that party is neither posting OT nor doing any "spamming" under even the most
inclusive standards doesn't contribute to the discussion of the subject matter-
the very thing you are (supposedly) so chuffed about that after several months
of NG silence you can no longer control yourself and your present "targets"
here are no different than your previous.

Why would you begin attacking me in a thread before I had even made a
single
statement on the subject?

Why?? I need your permission???

No, Karen. You don't need my permission.
You are free to behave as badly as you choose, no permission needed.
Deliberately trolling for a fight makes the NG more OT, not more on-topic.

Would you prefer that I give up posting on-topic altogether?

Only the off topic stuff I can & have over time learned to live with
your parroting of deceptive marketing spam & have even learned to
tolerate some of your other views (white suburbs indeed that still
takes some topping)

Well in that case, here's a clue for you:
Blasting anybody engaged in a behavior you have "learned to tolerate" (big of
you, thanks), like my on-topic posting does nothing to encourage that tolerable
activity.
Odd that you haven't said "squeak" in any of the OT threads, but choose to deal
with it after months, and months, by blasting my participation in the on-topic
subjects, isn't it?



In the context you were trying to spin it that the boat got rolled over
on the bar,

Sure hope you never make it to jury duty when I'm on trial. :-) I said that
such was among the "possibilities". If you were jury foreman and the
prosecution said, "We have evidence that Gould was somewhere in the same state
when the crime was committed," I'd be doing life without parole. :-)


I must say I get a giggle when you tell us about "English":-) that's funny.

When you're done laughing, perhaps you'll educate this professional writer by
offering a brief explanation of just how "capsize" is synonymous with "sink"?


The boat rolled over as the inevitable "consequence" of taking on water
from a leak (it seems around the transom area but....????), it was not
the "inadvertent turning over of a boat".

If the turning over was deliberate, where's the website author's gripe?

If not towed in promptly that boat would have sunk. Even much larger
boats can linger in an inverted position as part of the sinking process.

Very likely. However, the title of the blackmail site is "My boat sank," not
"There's a high probability my boat would have gone to the bottom if help
hadn't arrived when it did." Sensationalism vs. fact. Does that qualify as
"spam"?

So please paste where you got this from, you have no idea do you???

You must be new. You don't recall the long list of websites in this tradition?
Think of the guy who accepted (for a discount) a transport damaged, underrated
Panda generator and then tried to run it 24/7. Remember the couple on the SF
Delta who had a misplumbed live well in their brand new boat, left a secure
mooring
to set back off across the bay in a boat known to be taking on a large quantity
of water, and then blasted the salesperson for suggesting they bring the boat
back to the dealership and "putting us in danger."?
Nearly all of these sites are economically motivated, hoping to use bad
publicity where logical argument and examination of facts have not produced a
favorable outcome for the consumer. I'll bet you a Washington apple to an
Australian whatever that if Grady White gives the guy a new boat, or the dealer
refunds the purchase price of the boat he bought, the site will disappear in a
heartbeart.

The poster who submitted this to rec.boats has never posted anything here,
AFAIK. He composed his one-sided website, omitted any facts or circumstances
not damaging to the manufacturer or the dealer, and probably posted it
everywhere the internet has any boating content what so ever.

You still don't get it do you, the boat filled with water that may or
may not be down to the manufacturer, the dealer, the boats age, boat's
prior accidents, weather & yes the owner, but the dealer dumping him
when he needed them is typical.

What would you consider an "acceptable" response from the dealer?

Chuck please try to stop a second, all that might be right but the
dealer just leaving him unsupported isn't.

What would you consider an "acceptable" response from the dealer? As I
remember, the creator of the website doesn't really detail what the dealer's
response was, or wasn't, just that he thought he was given the brush off. I
will not believe that he called the dealership and was simply told to go screw
himself, not our problem, etc.

These "I'll get you!" websites more often than not result from a vendor failing
to meet every last expectation, reasonable or not, of a consumer with a
problem.

Neither of us knows all the facts. I speculate there are things that
*could*
have happened, but you applaud the damning website, say it's entirely the
used
boat dealer's fault in any event, that a dealership you're not acquainted
with
is a lousy place to do business, and that anybody else connected with the
marine industry is equally a piece of crap.

Which of us is being more reasonable, would you think?

Me:-)


Well, at least you had the decency not to protest my summary of your position.
I'll hand you that.


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