On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:49:05 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 11:44:02 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:29:34 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:22:32 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 18:44:54 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


And your son was in his late 20's?

If he was an adolescent, and he wasn't interested in the
boobs,
then
he was either too embarrassed to let you know, or he's just
not
very
interested in females (IMHO).

He wasn't raised by a television like so many other kids.

AH! Now you know the point of this whole issue.

He prefers reality.

And that's good for you as a parent, and him as a person who
will
likely become a responsible adult. Some people mature early
on,
and
can handle the reality of the adult world, and make decisions
based
on
the big picture. Many other kids, though, are empty of guiding
principles, and will lock on to whatever is handy, and too
often
that
is the TV. You say that the chaperoning the TV is the parent's
job.
But the parents are often not responsible themselves, or
cannot
be
there at every point, or when they are at their friend's
homes.

Isn't this interesting? I have a kid with "guiding principles",
and
it
somehow happened without religion. Remarkable.


Could it be that your son received his "guiding principles" from
parents who had received "guiding principles" from their parents?

Or has your entire life been devoid of anything religious?

Pretty much. My parents waited till I was 7 or 8 to start
attending
synagogue. You can't wait that long to start brainwashing kids.
You
have
to
start when they're small so they have no choice. Otherwise, they
have
to
find it themselves later in life if they choose to do so. So, by
the
time
they got me there, I was skilled at shutting it off. They gave up
by
the
time I was 12.




What? No fountain pens at age 13?

I made a typo. It was 13. To complete the story, I steadfastly refused
to
focus on bar mitzvah preparation. A week beforehand, the rabbi said
"Look.
This is out of your control. Your parents want this, and they've
already
paid for the party and the restaurant". So, in a week, I did the whole
thing. The party was actually pretty good. My friend Gary began
flicking
lobster eyeballs at the girls. The whole thing turned into a circus.

I think my parents' mistake was that after Sunday school, they always
took
my sister and I antique shopping. That's ridiculous. If you want to
get a
kid to do something they don't like, you don't reward them with
something
worse, especially on the weekend. My ex-wife has figured this out. She
gets
my son to attend the Unitarian church because afterwards, she offers
to
stick around downtown for a hour so he can take advantage of a park
that
has
lots of cement structures that are as attractive to skateboarders as a
shipwreck is to a fisherman looking for bottom structure. :-)


Is all this to imply that your parents had no part in the
determination of your guiding principles, and therefore the guiding
principles you pass to your son?

John, you really have comprehension issues. That doesn't make you a bad
person. I'm just sayin'.....

It implies that religion played no part in my beliefs. The first time I
saw
"fear" and "god" on the same page, I shut it all down. Anyone who falls
for
that is a fool.


So somehow, your parents managed to raise you and totally withhold any
effects of their religion on your "guiding principles." Somehow, I
think you are being false to your parents.

I have no idea what motivated THEM. My mother said she hardly ever attended
while growing up. My father's family attended with some regularity. Matter
of fact, his brother was a rabbi. But, there was at least a 10 year span
after he left the service when he and my mother were in no way involved. I'm
convinced their return to the synagogue was a reaction to our moving from
Queens to a neighborhood and school district almost totally devoid of Jewish
families.

You can theorize all you want about how I got this way, but the fact remains
that there are families comprised of multiple generations of atheists who've
lived perfectly good lives and raised perfectly fine children. You do NOT
need religion (a central brain) to figure out how to live in harmony with
other people.


I don't deny your claim about atheists. If your parents were not
affected by their religion, then perhaps your grandparents were
religious? Could the values held by your parents have been passed on
by your grandparents? Affected by religion, perhaps?

Methinks thou dost protest too much, as do most atheists.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:49:05 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 11:44:02 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:29:34 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:22:32 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 18:44:54 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


And your son was in his late 20's?

If he was an adolescent, and he wasn't interested in the
boobs,
then
he was either too embarrassed to let you know, or he's
just
not
very
interested in females (IMHO).

He wasn't raised by a television like so many other kids.

AH! Now you know the point of this whole issue.

He prefers reality.

And that's good for you as a parent, and him as a person
who
will
likely become a responsible adult. Some people mature early
on,
and
can handle the reality of the adult world, and make
decisions
based
on
the big picture. Many other kids, though, are empty of
guiding
principles, and will lock on to whatever is handy, and too
often
that
is the TV. You say that the chaperoning the TV is the
parent's
job.
But the parents are often not responsible themselves, or
cannot
be
there at every point, or when they are at their friend's
homes.

Isn't this interesting? I have a kid with "guiding
principles",
and
it
somehow happened without religion. Remarkable.


Could it be that your son received his "guiding principles"
from
parents who had received "guiding principles" from their
parents?

Or has your entire life been devoid of anything religious?

Pretty much. My parents waited till I was 7 or 8 to start
attending
synagogue. You can't wait that long to start brainwashing kids.
You
have
to
start when they're small so they have no choice. Otherwise,
they
have
to
find it themselves later in life if they choose to do so. So,
by
the
time
they got me there, I was skilled at shutting it off. They gave
up
by
the
time I was 12.




What? No fountain pens at age 13?

I made a typo. It was 13. To complete the story, I steadfastly
refused
to
focus on bar mitzvah preparation. A week beforehand, the rabbi said
"Look.
This is out of your control. Your parents want this, and they've
already
paid for the party and the restaurant". So, in a week, I did the
whole
thing. The party was actually pretty good. My friend Gary began
flicking
lobster eyeballs at the girls. The whole thing turned into a
circus.

I think my parents' mistake was that after Sunday school, they
always
took
my sister and I antique shopping. That's ridiculous. If you want to
get a
kid to do something they don't like, you don't reward them with
something
worse, especially on the weekend. My ex-wife has figured this out.
She
gets
my son to attend the Unitarian church because afterwards, she
offers
to
stick around downtown for a hour so he can take advantage of a park
that
has
lots of cement structures that are as attractive to skateboarders
as a
shipwreck is to a fisherman looking for bottom structure. :-)


Is all this to imply that your parents had no part in the
determination of your guiding principles, and therefore the guiding
principles you pass to your son?

John, you really have comprehension issues. That doesn't make you a
bad
person. I'm just sayin'.....

It implies that religion played no part in my beliefs. The first time
I
saw
"fear" and "god" on the same page, I shut it all down. Anyone who
falls
for
that is a fool.


So somehow, your parents managed to raise you and totally withhold any
effects of their religion on your "guiding principles." Somehow, I
think you are being false to your parents.

I have no idea what motivated THEM. My mother said she hardly ever
attended
while growing up. My father's family attended with some regularity.
Matter
of fact, his brother was a rabbi. But, there was at least a 10 year span
after he left the service when he and my mother were in no way involved.
I'm
convinced their return to the synagogue was a reaction to our moving from
Queens to a neighborhood and school district almost totally devoid of
Jewish
families.

You can theorize all you want about how I got this way, but the fact
remains
that there are families comprised of multiple generations of atheists
who've
lived perfectly good lives and raised perfectly fine children. You do NOT
need religion (a central brain) to figure out how to live in harmony with
other people.


I don't deny your claim about atheists. If your parents were not
affected by their religion, then perhaps your grandparents were
religious? Could the values held by your parents have been passed on
by your grandparents? Affected by religion, perhaps?

Methinks thou dost protest too much, as do most atheists.

My maternal grandmother's primary contribution to my life was an endless
supply of chocolate pudding and oatmeal/raisin cookies - the ultimate
display of love. Her husband was a feather costume specialist who made his
money creating costumes for the Rockettes. He wasn't home much. My main
memory of him was Rheingold beer. :-)

"JohnH" wrote in message
...


I'll answer that with a question: Is religion the only way to learn
how
to
live a good life?

That's not an answer, that's a subject change to avoid an answer.

John H

It most certainly is not. You're working on the assumption that living a
certain way requires a kick in the ass from religion or some other
outside
source. I'm leading your around by the nose until you 'fess up and admit
how
silly that is. You don't like being led around by the nose, but I'm not
done
yet.


I'm neither working on, nor have made, any assumptions. I've also not
said anything about a requirement for religion. You stated that you
have a kid with "guiding principles" that happened without religion.
You won't admit that you received any guiding principles from your
parents, who were religious. (You stated your father was Jewish, and
was 'ostracized' for it.)

You're too shallow to admit that religion *did* play a part in your
guiding principle, the ones you've passed on to your son.

You got me, John. Under the influence of one Jack Daniels on the rocks while
washing the dishes, I realized something. One of the most important tenets
of Judaism is that no matter where you live, it's your duty to be the best
citizen you can be. I passed that on to my son. He's endlessly dismayed by
Bush, but it's given him hope that the smart will, at some point, inherit
the earth.

On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 23:22:21 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:49:05 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 11:44:02 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:29:34 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:22:32 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 18:44:54 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


And your son was in his late 20's?

If he was an adolescent, and he wasn't interested in the
boobs,
then
he was either too embarrassed to let you know, or he's
just
not
very
interested in females (IMHO).

He wasn't raised by a television like so many other kids.

AH! Now you know the point of this whole issue.

He prefers reality.

And that's good for you as a parent, and him as a person
who
will
likely become a responsible adult. Some people mature early
on,
and
can handle the reality of the adult world, and make
decisions
based
on
the big picture. Many other kids, though, are empty of
guiding
principles, and will lock on to whatever is handy, and too
often
that
is the TV. You say that the chaperoning the TV is the
parent's
job.
But the parents are often not responsible themselves, or
cannot
be
there at every point, or when they are at their friend's
homes.

Isn't this interesting? I have a kid with "guiding
principles",
and
it
somehow happened without religion. Remarkable.


Could it be that your son received his "guiding principles"
from
parents who had received "guiding principles" from their
parents?

Or has your entire life been devoid of anything religious?

Pretty much. My parents waited till I was 7 or 8 to start
attending
synagogue. You can't wait that long to start brainwashing kids.
You
have
to
start when they're small so they have no choice. Otherwise,
they
have
to
find it themselves later in life if they choose to do so. So,
by
the
time
they got me there, I was skilled at shutting it off. They gave
up
by
the
time I was 12.




What? No fountain pens at age 13?

I made a typo. It was 13. To complete the story, I steadfastly
refused
to
focus on bar mitzvah preparation. A week beforehand, the rabbi said
"Look.
This is out of your control. Your parents want this, and they've
already
paid for the party and the restaurant". So, in a week, I did the
whole
thing. The party was actually pretty good. My friend Gary began
flicking
lobster eyeballs at the girls. The whole thing turned into a
circus.

I think my parents' mistake was that after Sunday school, they
always
took
my sister and I antique shopping. That's ridiculous. If you want to
get a
kid to do something they don't like, you don't reward them with
something
worse, especially on the weekend. My ex-wife has figured this out.
She
gets
my son to attend the Unitarian church because afterwards, she
offers
to
stick around downtown for a hour so he can take advantage of a park
that
has
lots of cement structures that are as attractive to skateboarders
as a
shipwreck is to a fisherman looking for bottom structure. :-)


Is all this to imply that your parents had no part in the
determination of your guiding principles, and therefore the guiding
principles you pass to your son?

John, you really have comprehension issues. That doesn't make you a
bad
person. I'm just sayin'.....

It implies that religion played no part in my beliefs. The first time
I
saw
"fear" and "god" on the same page, I shut it all down. Anyone who
falls
for
that is a fool.


So somehow, your parents managed to raise you and totally withhold any
effects of their religion on your "guiding principles." Somehow, I
think you are being false to your parents.

I have no idea what motivated THEM. My mother said she hardly ever
attended
while growing up. My father's family attended with some regularity.
Matter
of fact, his brother was a rabbi. But, there was at least a 10 year span
after he left the service when he and my mother were in no way involved.
I'm
convinced their return to the synagogue was a reaction to our moving from
Queens to a neighborhood and school district almost totally devoid of
Jewish
families.

You can theorize all you want about how I got this way, but the fact
remains
that there are families comprised of multiple generations of atheists
who've
lived perfectly good lives and raised perfectly fine children. You do NOT
need religion (a central brain) to figure out how to live in harmony with
other people.


I don't deny your claim about atheists. If your parents were not
affected by their religion, then perhaps your grandparents were
religious? Could the values held by your parents have been passed on
by your grandparents? Affected by religion, perhaps?

Methinks thou dost protest too much, as do most atheists.

My maternal grandmother's primary contribution to my life was an endless
supply of chocolate pudding and oatmeal/raisin cookies - the ultimate
display of love. Her husband was a feather costume specialist who made his
money creating costumes for the Rockettes. He wasn't home much. My main
memory of him was Rheingold beer. :-)

My memory of my Maternal Grandfather (the full blooded Indian) was
Christmas when he would give all the grandkids "Grasshoppers" made
with Creme de Menthe.

The other, of course, was the shot of Jameson's Irish and Pabst Blue
Ribbon at the local bar which was really the local ward healers
"office" - which, as you might expect, he was. :)

Later,

Tom

On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 23:25:02 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .


I'll answer that with a question: Is religion the only way to learn
how
to
live a good life?

That's not an answer, that's a subject change to avoid an answer.

John H

It most certainly is not. You're working on the assumption that living a
certain way requires a kick in the ass from religion or some other
outside
source. I'm leading your around by the nose until you 'fess up and admit
how
silly that is. You don't like being led around by the nose, but I'm not
done
yet.


I'm neither working on, nor have made, any assumptions. I've also not
said anything about a requirement for religion. You stated that you
have a kid with "guiding principles" that happened without religion.
You won't admit that you received any guiding principles from your
parents, who were religious. (You stated your father was Jewish, and
was 'ostracized' for it.)

You're too shallow to admit that religion *did* play a part in your
guiding principle, the ones you've passed on to your son.

You got me, John. Under the influence of one Jack Daniels on the rocks while
washing the dishes, I realized something. One of the most important tenets
of Judaism is that no matter where you live, it's your duty to be the best
citizen you can be. I passed that on to my son. He's endlessly dismayed by
Bush, but it's given him hope that the smart will, at some point, inherit
the earth.


You're a good man. And that tenet of Judaism is a worthwhile goal for
all of us.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 23:22:21 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:49:05 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 11:44:02 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:29:34 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:22:32 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 18:44:54 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


And your son was in his late 20's?

If he was an adolescent, and he wasn't interested in
the
boobs,
then
he was either too embarrassed to let you know, or
he's
just
not
very
interested in females (IMHO).

He wasn't raised by a television like so many other
kids.

AH! Now you know the point of this whole issue.

He prefers reality.

And that's good for you as a parent, and him as a person
who
will
likely become a responsible adult. Some people mature
early
on,
and
can handle the reality of the adult world, and make
decisions
based
on
the big picture. Many other kids, though, are empty of
guiding
principles, and will lock on to whatever is handy, and
too
often
that
is the TV. You say that the chaperoning the TV is the
parent's
job.
But the parents are often not responsible themselves, or
cannot
be
there at every point, or when they are at their friend's
homes.

Isn't this interesting? I have a kid with "guiding
principles",
and
it
somehow happened without religion. Remarkable.


Could it be that your son received his "guiding principles"
from
parents who had received "guiding principles" from their
parents?

Or has your entire life been devoid of anything religious?

Pretty much. My parents waited till I was 7 or 8 to start
attending
synagogue. You can't wait that long to start brainwashing
kids.
You
have
to
start when they're small so they have no choice. Otherwise,
they
have
to
find it themselves later in life if they choose to do so.
So,
by
the
time
they got me there, I was skilled at shutting it off. They
gave
up
by
the
time I was 12.




What? No fountain pens at age 13?

I made a typo. It was 13. To complete the story, I steadfastly
refused
to
focus on bar mitzvah preparation. A week beforehand, the rabbi
said
"Look.
This is out of your control. Your parents want this, and they've
already
paid for the party and the restaurant". So, in a week, I did the
whole
thing. The party was actually pretty good. My friend Gary began
flicking
lobster eyeballs at the girls. The whole thing turned into a
circus.

I think my parents' mistake was that after Sunday school, they
always
took
my sister and I antique shopping. That's ridiculous. If you want
to
get a
kid to do something they don't like, you don't reward them with
something
worse, especially on the weekend. My ex-wife has figured this
out.
She
gets
my son to attend the Unitarian church because afterwards, she
offers
to
stick around downtown for a hour so he can take advantage of a
park
that
has
lots of cement structures that are as attractive to
skateboarders
as a
shipwreck is to a fisherman looking for bottom structure. :-)


Is all this to imply that your parents had no part in the
determination of your guiding principles, and therefore the
guiding
principles you pass to your son?

John, you really have comprehension issues. That doesn't make you a
bad
person. I'm just sayin'.....

It implies that religion played no part in my beliefs. The first
time
I
saw
"fear" and "god" on the same page, I shut it all down. Anyone who
falls
for
that is a fool.


So somehow, your parents managed to raise you and totally withhold
any
effects of their religion on your "guiding principles." Somehow, I
think you are being false to your parents.

I have no idea what motivated THEM. My mother said she hardly ever
attended
while growing up. My father's family attended with some regularity.
Matter
of fact, his brother was a rabbi. But, there was at least a 10 year
span
after he left the service when he and my mother were in no way
involved.
I'm
convinced their return to the synagogue was a reaction to our moving
from
Queens to a neighborhood and school district almost totally devoid of
Jewish
families.

You can theorize all you want about how I got this way, but the fact
remains
that there are families comprised of multiple generations of atheists
who've
lived perfectly good lives and raised perfectly fine children. You do
NOT
need religion (a central brain) to figure out how to live in harmony
with
other people.


I don't deny your claim about atheists. If your parents were not
affected by their religion, then perhaps your grandparents were
religious? Could the values held by your parents have been passed on
by your grandparents? Affected by religion, perhaps?

Methinks thou dost protest too much, as do most atheists.

My maternal grandmother's primary contribution to my life was an endless
supply of chocolate pudding and oatmeal/raisin cookies - the ultimate
display of love. Her husband was a feather costume specialist who made
his
money creating costumes for the Rockettes. He wasn't home much. My main
memory of him was Rheingold beer. :-)

My memory of my Maternal Grandfather (the full blooded Indian) was
Christmas when he would give all the grandkids "Grasshoppers" made
with Creme de Menthe.

The other, of course, was the shot of Jameson's Irish and Pabst Blue
Ribbon at the local bar which was really the local ward healers
"office" - which, as you might expect, he was. :)

Later,

Tom

Tom, we really need to get hammered. :-)

On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 23:22:21 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:49:05 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 11:44:02 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:29:34 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:22:32 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 18:44:54 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


And your son was in his late 20's?

If he was an adolescent, and he wasn't interested in the
boobs,
then
he was either too embarrassed to let you know, or he's
just
not
very
interested in females (IMHO).

He wasn't raised by a television like so many other kids.

AH! Now you know the point of this whole issue.

He prefers reality.

And that's good for you as a parent, and him as a person
who
will
likely become a responsible adult. Some people mature early
on,
and
can handle the reality of the adult world, and make
decisions
based
on
the big picture. Many other kids, though, are empty of
guiding
principles, and will lock on to whatever is handy, and too
often
that
is the TV. You say that the chaperoning the TV is the
parent's
job.
But the parents are often not responsible themselves, or
cannot
be
there at every point, or when they are at their friend's
homes.

Isn't this interesting? I have a kid with "guiding
principles",
and
it
somehow happened without religion. Remarkable.


Could it be that your son received his "guiding principles"
from
parents who had received "guiding principles" from their
parents?

Or has your entire life been devoid of anything religious?

Pretty much. My parents waited till I was 7 or 8 to start
attending
synagogue. You can't wait that long to start brainwashing kids.
You
have
to
start when they're small so they have no choice. Otherwise,
they
have
to
find it themselves later in life if they choose to do so. So,
by
the
time
they got me there, I was skilled at shutting it off. They gave
up
by
the
time I was 12.




What? No fountain pens at age 13?

I made a typo. It was 13. To complete the story, I steadfastly
refused
to
focus on bar mitzvah preparation. A week beforehand, the rabbi said
"Look.
This is out of your control. Your parents want this, and they've
already
paid for the party and the restaurant". So, in a week, I did the
whole
thing. The party was actually pretty good. My friend Gary began
flicking
lobster eyeballs at the girls. The whole thing turned into a
circus.

I think my parents' mistake was that after Sunday school, they
always
took
my sister and I antique shopping. That's ridiculous. If you want to
get a
kid to do something they don't like, you don't reward them with
something
worse, especially on the weekend. My ex-wife has figured this out.
She
gets
my son to attend the Unitarian church because afterwards, she
offers
to
stick around downtown for a hour so he can take advantage of a park
that
has
lots of cement structures that are as attractive to skateboarders
as a
shipwreck is to a fisherman looking for bottom structure. :-)


Is all this to imply that your parents had no part in the
determination of your guiding principles, and therefore the guiding
principles you pass to your son?

John, you really have comprehension issues. That doesn't make you a
bad
person. I'm just sayin'.....

It implies that religion played no part in my beliefs. The first time
I
saw
"fear" and "god" on the same page, I shut it all down. Anyone who
falls
for
that is a fool.


So somehow, your parents managed to raise you and totally withhold any
effects of their religion on your "guiding principles." Somehow, I
think you are being false to your parents.

I have no idea what motivated THEM. My mother said she hardly ever
attended
while growing up. My father's family attended with some regularity.
Matter
of fact, his brother was a rabbi. But, there was at least a 10 year span
after he left the service when he and my mother were in no way involved.
I'm
convinced their return to the synagogue was a reaction to our moving from
Queens to a neighborhood and school district almost totally devoid of
Jewish
families.

You can theorize all you want about how I got this way, but the fact
remains
that there are families comprised of multiple generations of atheists
who've
lived perfectly good lives and raised perfectly fine children. You do NOT
need religion (a central brain) to figure out how to live in harmony with
other people.


I don't deny your claim about atheists. If your parents were not
affected by their religion, then perhaps your grandparents were
religious? Could the values held by your parents have been passed on
by your grandparents? Affected by religion, perhaps?

Methinks thou dost protest too much, as do most atheists.

My maternal grandmother's primary contribution to my life was an endless
supply of chocolate pudding and oatmeal/raisin cookies - the ultimate
display of love. Her husband was a feather costume specialist who made his
money creating costumes for the Rockettes. He wasn't home much. My main
memory of him was Rheingold beer. :-)


Asked and answered in a previous post. You're still a good man,
regardless of how much chocolate pudding you consumed. Besides,
grandparents pass values to their children. They *spoil* their
grandchildren! I'm about to get my fifth (in a few more months). This
will be the fourth grandson, with only one granddaughter. Guess which
gets spoiled the most!

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"JohnH" wrote in message
...


My maternal grandmother's primary contribution to my life was an endless
supply of chocolate pudding and oatmeal/raisin cookies - the ultimate
display of love. Her husband was a feather costume specialist who made
his
money creating costumes for the Rockettes. He wasn't home much. My main
memory of him was Rheingold beer. :-)


Asked and answered in a previous post. You're still a good man,
regardless of how much chocolate pudding you consumed. Besides,
grandparents pass values to their children. They *spoil* their
grandchildren! I'm about to get my fifth (in a few more months). This
will be the fourth grandson, with only one granddaughter. Guess which
gets spoiled the most!

My son (15) still says nobody makes grilled cheese, apple sauce (fresh) or
scrambled eggs like his grandmother who was his day care provider for about
3 years when he was little.

On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 23:44:59 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 23:22:21 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:
~~ snippage ~~

My maternal grandmother's primary contribution to my life was an endless
supply of chocolate pudding and oatmeal/raisin cookies - the ultimate
display of love. Her husband was a feather costume specialist who made
his
money creating costumes for the Rockettes. He wasn't home much. My main
memory of him was Rheingold beer. :-)

My memory of my Maternal Grandfather (the full blooded Indian) was
Christmas when he would give all the grandkids "Grasshoppers" made
with Creme de Menthe.

The other, of course, was the shot of Jameson's Irish and Pabst Blue
Ribbon at the local bar which was really the local ward healers
"office" - which, as you might expect, he was. :)

Tom, we really need to get hammered. :-)

If this were 30 years ago, I probably would have.

I gave it all up.

So many stories - so little time... :)

Later,

Tom

Doug Kanter wrote:



My son (15) still says nobody makes grilled cheese, apple sauce (fresh) or
scrambled eggs like his grandmother who was his day care provider for about
3 years when he was little.



Ahhhhh... Grilled cheese sandwich ... the ultimate American health food.
Ya gotta squish 'em with a spatula while cooking in gobs of butter until
the suckers are thin as a dime. Yum.

Eisboch (just remembered to get the ol' cholesterol checked)