"Gene Kearns" wrote in message

snip
While logically, that seems reasonable, the statistics don't seem to
bear that out. The 13 states with the greatest unemployment do not
stand out as patently unfriendly to business. Similarly, a low
unemployment rate doesn't seem to imply that the state is business
friendly. While businesses clearly indicate that Republican
controlled states are more "friendly," that doesn't seem to have kept
them from laying off workers in amounts equal to "unfriendly" states.

see: http://www.bcentral.com/articles/har...p?format=print

(the numbers in parenthesis, below, indicate the state's ranking).

That must be why Texas' unemployment rate is 6.3%. Oops, Texas is
controlled by Republicans.

And Alaska's is 7.3%. Oops, another Republican state.

And then there is Maryland, 3.8%. Yup, it's a Democratic state.

Geez, NOYB, look at the map. I would suggest that there is more of a
correlation to the type of economy, than who controls the legislature.

http://www.lioninc.com/lion/unemployment_by_state1

http://www.statescape.com/Resources/...artysplits.asp


Average Unemployment for the US 6%
Average Unemployment for Democratic States 5.463%
Average Unemployment for Republican States 5.085%


I would question all the conclusions just looking at the above statement.
How many states are not Republican or Democrat controlled? With the Dem's
at 5.5% and the Repubs at 5.1% Average cannot be 6%!

Unfortunately for Mr. Sells, his plight is not the result of the economy or
politics. If it were, he could expect that his situation might be
temporary.

In the eighties CTP , or computer to plate technology, was in it's infancy.
At that time, there was still doubts about it's viability. By the early
nineties, the system had proven itself and the larger printers were adopting
it. Technology improved rapidly and, with accompanying price reductions,
mid sized printers such as Tempo Graphics in Carol Stream came to realize
that, in order to remain competitive, they would also have to make the
transition. This of course meant that job opportunities for individuals
with Mr. Sells' skills would become more and more scarce. This is the
entirely the result of technological advancement and it is an ongoing
problem for the displaced worker with the wrong set of skills. Mr. Sells
could probably find another job in prepress but it would likely be with a
smaller printer who could not match his previous level of compensation. It
may also involve relocation. Extending unemployment benefits while he waits
it out will not resolve his problem, but simply postpone the inevitable.

The moral of the story is that a persons skills are only valuable when there
is a market for those skills. As technology changes, people must adapt and
acquire the new skills to compete in the job market. After all, the CTP
revolution did not catch anyone in the graphic arts industry by surprise, it
has been steadily growing for at least ten years.

Harry Krause wrote:

Out of work and full of worry
Call for renewed federal aid not likely to be heard


By Imran Vittachi
Chicago Tribune staff reporter

December 20, 2003

Cecil Sells considers himself one of the "luckier" ones, even though
he's been jobless since September, laid off from his $50,000-a-year job
as a pre-press operator in Carol Stream.

*Others have had it tougher for a lot longer. In November, the long-term
unemployed were out of work for an average of more than 20 weeks, the
highest it has been since January 1984, according to the Bureau of Labor
Statistics.*

Sells, 45, of Sycamore, said he is not encouraged by the Bush
administration's claims that the economy is improving.

"Maybe that's happening in some never-never land," said Sells. "But if I
don't find a job by March, I may have to sell my house or find other
measures to feed my family."

In March, his weekly state unemployment check of $331, which goes toward
supporting him and his wife and helps pay on his son's college loans,
will run out.

Sells was among a small group of unemployed Illinois residents who
joined leaders of anti-poverty organizations and Rep. Jan Schakowsky
(D-Ill.), to call on the Bush administration and the
Republican-controlled Congress to renew federal benefits. A lifeline
lasting 13 weeks, the benefits kick in after state support runs out, but
the package is set to expire Sunday.

"The Grinch is back [this Christmas]," Schakowsky said at the Friday
press conference, which was sponsored by the local chapter of the
AFL-CIO at a church in the Loop.

She said President Bush, together with House Speaker Dennis Hastert and
their fellow Republicans, were now "toasting each other for this
supposed economic recovery."

*"They're ignoring the 8.7 million unemployed workers and those who are
about to lose their benefits," Schakowsky said.*

Last Christmas, Bush extended benefits into the new year. But this time
that appears unlikely; Congress has adjourned for the holidays.

"There seems to be more resistance from the Republican Congress than
last year," said Ross Eisenbrey, vice president of the Economic Policy
Center, a Washington think tank. "Without presidential intervention,
this time Congress won't renew it."

Despite encouraging reports from the Department of Labor that the
national economy may be pulling out of its morass, and that the
nationwide unemployment rate is finally dipping, the outlook for
recovery in Illinois isn't so bright.

While nationwide unemployment fell in November to 5.9 percent, it stood
at 6.7 percent in Illinois. In some pockets Downstate, the rate ranges
between 7 percent and 10 percent, said Margaret Blackshere, head of the
Chicago AFL-CIO.

Eisenbrey and others say this is no time to terminate the benefits,
known as Temporary Extended Unemployment Compensation. November's
long-term unemployment rate eclipsed the average of 15.4 weeks set in
March 2002, when the benefits took hold.

"The notion that the economy is turning around and that this is no
longer needed is just wrong," said Eisenbrey. He pointed to long-term
unemployment indicators, which in November were higher than in March
2002, when the federal benefits were introduced. "It should at least be
extended for another six months."

The White House, and the offices of Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist
(R-Tenn.) and House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Texas), did not respond
Friday to requests for comment.
--
Email sent to is never read.

Jim Kelly wrote:

Unfortunately for Mr. Sells, his plight is not the result of the economy or
politics. If it were, he could expect that his situation might be
temporary.

In the eighties CTP , or computer to plate technology, was in it's infancy.
At that time, there was still doubts about it's viability. By the early
nineties, the system had proven itself and the larger printers were adopting
it. Technology improved rapidly and, with accompanying price reductions,
mid sized printers such as Tempo Graphics in Carol Stream came to realize
that, in order to remain competitive, they would also have to make the
transition. This of course meant that job opportunities for individuals
with Mr. Sells' skills would become more and more scarce. This is the
entirely the result of technological advancement and it is an ongoing
problem for the displaced worker with the wrong set of skills. Mr. Sells
could probably find another job in prepress but it would likely be with a
smaller printer who could not match his previous level of compensation. It
may also involve relocation. Extending unemployment benefits while he waits
it out will not resolve his problem, but simply postpone the inevitable.

The moral of the story is that a persons skills are only valuable when there
is a market for those skills. As technology changes, people must adapt and
acquire the new skills to compete in the job market. After all, the CTP
revolution did not catch anyone in the graphic arts industry by surprise, it
has been steadily growing for at least ten years.

Harry Krause wrote:

Out of work and full of worry
Call for renewed federal aid not likely to be heard


By Imran Vittachi
Chicago Tribune staff reporter

December 20, 2003

Cecil Sells considers himself one of the "luckier" ones, even though
he's been jobless since September, laid off from his $50,000-a-year job
as a pre-press operator in Carol Stream.

*Others have had it tougher for a lot longer. In November, the long-term
unemployed were out of work for an average of more than 20 weeks, the
highest it has been since January 1984, according to the Bureau of Labor
Statistics.*

Sells, 45, of Sycamore, said he is not encouraged by the Bush
administration's claims that the economy is improving.

"Maybe that's happening in some never-never land," said Sells. "But if I
don't find a job by March, I may have to sell my house or find other
measures to feed my family."

In March, his weekly state unemployment check of $331, which goes toward
supporting him and his wife and helps pay on his son's college loans,
will run out.

Sells was among a small group of unemployed Illinois residents who
joined leaders of anti-poverty organizations and Rep. Jan Schakowsky
(D-Ill.), to call on the Bush administration and the
Republican-controlled Congress to renew federal benefits. A lifeline
lasting 13 weeks, the benefits kick in after state support runs out, but
the package is set to expire Sunday.

"The Grinch is back [this Christmas]," Schakowsky said at the Friday
press conference, which was sponsored by the local chapter of the
AFL-CIO at a church in the Loop.

She said President Bush, together with House Speaker Dennis Hastert and
their fellow Republicans, were now "toasting each other for this
supposed economic recovery."

*"They're ignoring the 8.7 million unemployed workers and those who are
about to lose their benefits," Schakowsky said.*

Last Christmas, Bush extended benefits into the new year. But this time
that appears unlikely; Congress has adjourned for the holidays.

"There seems to be more resistance from the Republican Congress than
last year," said Ross Eisenbrey, vice president of the Economic Policy
Center, a Washington think tank. "Without presidential intervention,
this time Congress won't renew it."

Despite encouraging reports from the Department of Labor that the
national economy may be pulling out of its morass, and that the
nationwide unemployment rate is finally dipping, the outlook for
recovery in Illinois isn't so bright.

While nationwide unemployment fell in November to 5.9 percent, it stood
at 6.7 percent in Illinois. In some pockets Downstate, the rate ranges
between 7 percent and 10 percent, said Margaret Blackshere, head of the
Chicago AFL-CIO.

Eisenbrey and others say this is no time to terminate the benefits,
known as Temporary Extended Unemployment Compensation. November's
long-term unemployment rate eclipsed the average of 15.4 weeks set in
March 2002, when the benefits took hold.

"The notion that the economy is turning around and that this is no
longer needed is just wrong," said Eisenbrey. He pointed to long-term
unemployment indicators, which in November were higher than in March
2002, when the federal benefits were introduced. "It should at least be
extended for another six months."

The White House, and the offices of Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist
(R-Tenn.) and House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Texas), did not respond
Friday to requests for comment.
--
Email sent to is never read.



No, the moral of this story should be that when a worker's skills are
obsolete, that worker is helped, with a combination of unemployment and
training, to learn enough to do a new job that maintains his standard of
living.

As they do in more progressive countries. Like Norway, Sweden, Finland,
for example.

What we have now is disposability.

--
Email sent to is never read.

Harry,
I do not disagree with your contention that help should be made available in the
form of retraining. However, the worker must recognize the need and be willing to
accept the fact that he or she must make an effort to adapt. Once again, the CTP
revolution did not take the industry by surprise. Many individuals in prepress
did what was necessary to make the transition. It appears Mr. Sells would prefer
to adopt the role of victim and bemoan his plight to the press.

Harry Krause wrote:

Jim Kelly wrote:

Unfortunately for Mr. Sells, his plight is not the result of the economy or
politics. If it were, he could expect that his situation might be
temporary.

In the eighties CTP , or computer to plate technology, was in it's infancy.
At that time, there was still doubts about it's viability. By the early
nineties, the system had proven itself and the larger printers were adopting
it. Technology improved rapidly and, with accompanying price reductions,
mid sized printers such as Tempo Graphics in Carol Stream came to realize
that, in order to remain competitive, they would also have to make the
transition. This of course meant that job opportunities for individuals
with Mr. Sells' skills would become more and more scarce. This is the
entirely the result of technological advancement and it is an ongoing
problem for the displaced worker with the wrong set of skills. Mr. Sells
could probably find another job in prepress but it would likely be with a
smaller printer who could not match his previous level of compensation. It
may also involve relocation. Extending unemployment benefits while he waits
it out will not resolve his problem, but simply postpone the inevitable.

The moral of the story is that a persons skills are only valuable when there
is a market for those skills. As technology changes, people must adapt and
acquire the new skills to compete in the job market. After all, the CTP
revolution did not catch anyone in the graphic arts industry by surprise, it
has been steadily growing for at least ten years.

Harry Krause wrote:

Out of work and full of worry
Call for renewed federal aid not likely to be heard


By Imran Vittachi
Chicago Tribune staff reporter

December 20, 2003

Cecil Sells considers himself one of the "luckier" ones, even though
he's been jobless since September, laid off from his $50,000-a-year job
as a pre-press operator in Carol Stream.

*Others have had it tougher for a lot longer. In November, the long-term
unemployed were out of work for an average of more than 20 weeks, the
highest it has been since January 1984, according to the Bureau of Labor
Statistics.*

Sells, 45, of Sycamore, said he is not encouraged by the Bush
administration's claims that the economy is improving.

"Maybe that's happening in some never-never land," said Sells. "But if I
don't find a job by March, I may have to sell my house or find other
measures to feed my family."

In March, his weekly state unemployment check of $331, which goes toward
supporting him and his wife and helps pay on his son's college loans,
will run out.

Sells was among a small group of unemployed Illinois residents who
joined leaders of anti-poverty organizations and Rep. Jan Schakowsky
(D-Ill.), to call on the Bush administration and the
Republican-controlled Congress to renew federal benefits. A lifeline
lasting 13 weeks, the benefits kick in after state support runs out, but
the package is set to expire Sunday.

"The Grinch is back [this Christmas]," Schakowsky said at the Friday
press conference, which was sponsored by the local chapter of the
AFL-CIO at a church in the Loop.

She said President Bush, together with House Speaker Dennis Hastert and
their fellow Republicans, were now "toasting each other for this
supposed economic recovery."

*"They're ignoring the 8.7 million unemployed workers and those who are
about to lose their benefits," Schakowsky said.*

Last Christmas, Bush extended benefits into the new year. But this time
that appears unlikely; Congress has adjourned for the holidays.

"There seems to be more resistance from the Republican Congress than
last year," said Ross Eisenbrey, vice president of the Economic Policy
Center, a Washington think tank. "Without presidential intervention,
this time Congress won't renew it."

Despite encouraging reports from the Department of Labor that the
national economy may be pulling out of its morass, and that the
nationwide unemployment rate is finally dipping, the outlook for
recovery in Illinois isn't so bright.

While nationwide unemployment fell in November to 5.9 percent, it stood
at 6.7 percent in Illinois. In some pockets Downstate, the rate ranges
between 7 percent and 10 percent, said Margaret Blackshere, head of the
Chicago AFL-CIO.

Eisenbrey and others say this is no time to terminate the benefits,
known as Temporary Extended Unemployment Compensation. November's
long-term unemployment rate eclipsed the average of 15.4 weeks set in
March 2002, when the benefits took hold.

"The notion that the economy is turning around and that this is no
longer needed is just wrong," said Eisenbrey. He pointed to long-term
unemployment indicators, which in November were higher than in March
2002, when the federal benefits were introduced. "It should at least be
extended for another six months."

The White House, and the offices of Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist
(R-Tenn.) and House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Texas), did not respond
Friday to requests for comment.
--
Email sent to is never read.


No, the moral of this story should be that when a worker's skills are
obsolete, that worker is helped, with a combination of unemployment and
training, to learn enough to do a new job that maintains his standard of
living.

As they do in more progressive countries. Like Norway, Sweden, Finland,
for example.

What we have now is disposability.

--
Email sent to is never read.

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 22:38:37 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:




I would question all the conclusions just looking at the above statement.
How many states are not Republican or Democrat controlled?

If you hadn't snipped out the information... it was contained in the
post.

With the Dem's
at 5.5% and the Repubs at 5.1% Average cannot be 6%!




Maybe I was too vague. The only way the 5.5% and 5.1% could be 6% average
is if there were non Dem and Repub controlled states. If there is an error
if this magnitude in the article, all the article is in question.

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 06:27:45 +0000, Calif Bill wrote:


Maybe I was too vague. The only way the 5.5% and 5.1% could be 6% average
is if there were non Dem and Repub controlled states. If there is an
error if this magnitude in the article, all the article is in question.

Apples and oranges. The 5.5% and 5.1% are the average of the states
rates. The 6% is the unemployment rate for the entire country. The states
with lower population tend to have lower unemployment. This skews
averaging the states rates lower.

"thunder" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 04:01:07 +0000, NOYB wrote:


Wanna know *why* Illinois has such a higher rate of unemployment,
hmmmmmm?
Here's your answer:

Governor=Democrat
Lt. Govenor=Democrat
State House= Controlled by Democrats
State Senate= Controlled by Democrats Mayor of Chicago=Democrat

Ever wonder why the states that are run by Democrats seem to have the
worst economies and worst financial crises? You can't tax the hell out
of
businesses and then expect them to set up shop in your state.

That must be why Texas' unemployment rate is 6.3%. Oops, Texas is
controlled by Republicans.

No. Texas has an immigration problem.


And Alaska's is 7.3%.

Alaska has too many unfavorable conditions to lure business there.

As for the rest of the states...
Republicans only control the legislature in 40% of the top ten states with
the highest unemployment rate. If you throw out Alaska and Texas for the
aforementioned reasons, then Republicans only control the legislature in 20%
of the states with the highest unemployment rates.

I've edited Harry's post for accuracy:
NOYB...is a dentist...who...moved south to Florida...and...has emerged as a
Republican conservative who knows...how the world works.

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"thunder" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 04:01:07 +0000, NOYB wrote:


Wanna know *why* Illinois has such a higher rate of unemployment,
hmmmmmm?
Here's your answer:

Governor=Democrat
Lt. Govenor=Democrat
State House= Controlled by Democrats
State Senate= Controlled by Democrats Mayor of Chicago=Democrat

Ever wonder why the states that are run by Democrats seem to have the
worst economies and worst financial crises? You can't tax the hell
out
of
businesses and then expect them to set up shop in your state.

That must be why Texas' unemployment rate is 6.3%. Oops, Texas is
controlled by Republicans.

And Alaska's is 7.3%. Oops, another Republican state.

And then there is Maryland, 3.8%. Yup, it's a Democratic state.

Our current governor in Maryland is a Republican. The two previous
elections
for governor were extremely close. The former Speaker of the Maryland
House,
a Democrat, was left wondering why he lost his seat in the last election.
It
was a coattails effect of ensuring the election of a Republican to the
highest office.


Bert,
You have a state that: (a) doesn't have an immigration problem, and (b) has
a favorable climate for business. Trying to compare Texas or Alaska to
Maryland is a ridiculous stretch on thunder's part.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

he is the more arrogant and least competent governor
in the state's history

You can always tell Harry is rattled when his grammar skills begin to slip.