kennie be a b/sing agin.

I find it highly unlikely that there are no Oxygen (O) atoms in gas....

Matt

"Ken" wrote in message
...
One thing with ethanol is that the stuff contains oxygen atoms along with
the hydrogen and carbon atoms, where as straight gasoline is hydrogen and
carbon only. The oxygen tends to lean the mixture entering the engine. No
matter what carb setting you apply after that, the air/fuel ratio never
gets
back to what it was. A lean mixture will burn hotter and more readily
creates detonation and preignition (4 cylinders inboards tend to have
dieseling problems with the stuff). It can also cause stalling problems.
With cars the oxygenated fuels tends to work ok as the computers and
sensors
keep a good control. With marine engines its a problem.


"Larry Weiss" wrote in message
...
Both of my power boats have developed severe engine hesitation
problems. They run okay at idle but sputter and stall when revved. My
mechanics have complained that they are seeing this problem left and
right - and are blaming it on the gasoline, which around here (Long
Island, NY) now contains 10% ethanol. I know ethanol is not good for
rubberized fuel lines, but did not know it caused running problems
(unless the fuel lines are deteriorating and clogging). The gas in each
boat was purchased at a different fuel dock.

If my mechanics are correct, this is a serious regional (national?)
problem. Anyone else experiencing difficulty? Any comments or
suggestions? How can we get gasoline without ethanol in it? How is the
marine industry addressing this?

Larry Weiss
"...Ever After!"
"a little after..."

dood, that is utter bull****. that lab you retired from was a back woods drug
lab.

do a google (if you are capable) on the chemical makeup of octane and see how
many oxygen atoms you find.

From: Matt Colie
Date: 9/23/2004 6:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

Matt,

Believe it.

Of that stuff you call gasoline (those things that come of the the
distillation between 100 and 200 degF) there is no chemical formulae.

It is all organic hydrocarbon and the best they can due is provide a
hydrogen/cardon ratio. And that is Gasoline...

What gets added after that is anybody's bet. It isn't Tetraethyllead
Pb(C2H5)4 anymore, but it can be any portion of a chemical alphabet
soup (like MTBE, TAME and ETBE) with out even getting to the oxygenates.

Most what was added in teh pst improved the octane rating. now what is
added is largely to improve the combustion efficiency.

Matt Colie (Engine Lab Rat -ret)


Matt Lang wrote:
I find it highly unlikely that there are no Oxygen (O) atoms in gas....

Matt

"Ken" wrote in message
...

One thing with ethanol is that the stuff contains oxygen atoms along with
the hydrogen and carbon atoms, where as straight gasoline is hydrogen and
carbon only. The oxygen tends to lean the mixture entering the engine. No
matter what carb setting you apply after that, the air/fuel ratio never
gets
back to what it was. A lean mixture will burn hotter and more readily
creates detonation and preignition (4 cylinders inboards tend to have
dieseling problems with the stuff). It can also cause stalling problems.
With cars the oxygenated fuels tends to work ok as the computers and
sensors
keep a good control. With marine engines its a problem.


"Larry Weiss" wrote in message
...

Both of my power boats have developed severe engine hesitation
problems. They run okay at idle but sputter and stall when revved. My
mechanics have complained that they are seeing this problem left and
right - and are blaming it on the gasoline, which around here (Long
Island, NY) now contains 10% ethanol. I know ethanol is not good for
rubberized fuel lines, but did not know it caused running problems
(unless the fuel lines are deteriorating and clogging). The gas in each
boat was purchased at a different fuel dock.

If my mechanics are correct, this is a serious regional (national?)
problem. Anyone else experiencing difficulty? Any comments or
suggestions? How can we get gasoline without ethanol in it? How is the
marine industry addressing this?

Larry Weiss
"...Ever After!"
"a little after..."

On 23 Sep 2004 12:12:48 -0700, (Matt Lang) wrote:

I find it highly unlikely that there are no Oxygen (O) atoms in gas....

There are, but tiny amounts. Gasoline is mostly hydrocarbon molecules,
which like the name implies, is only hydrogen and carbon atoms. There
are many of different types of hydrocarbon molecules in typical
gasoline. However, there are also trace amounts of other compounds in
there, some of which contain oxygen atoms as well as sulphur, nitrogen,
some metals ...

Steve

schlackoff, you are even a worse chemist than you are a sailor. I suggest you
ask some high school kid to explain what happens to octane when you remove the
oxygen.

go stand in the corner.

(Steven Shelikoff)
Date: 9/23/2004 11:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 23 Sep 2004 12:12:48 -0700, (Matt Lang) wrote:

I find it highly unlikely that there are no Oxygen (O) atoms in gas....

There are, but tiny amounts. Gasoline is mostly hydrocarbon molecules,
which like the name implies, is only hydrogen and carbon atoms. There
are many of different types of hydrocarbon molecules in typical
gasoline. However, there are also trace amounts of other compounds in
there, some of which contain oxygen atoms as well as sulphur, nitrogen,
some metals ...

Steve

JAXAshby wrote:
schlackoff, you are even a worse chemist than you are a sailor. I suggest you
ask some high school kid to explain what happens to octane when you remove the
oxygen.

go stand in the corner.


You should cut back on the amount of ethanol you drink, Jaxass.

--
We today have a president of the United States who looks like he is the
son of Howdy Doody or Alfred E. Newman, who isn't smarter than either of
them, who is arrogant about his ignorance, who is reckless and
incompetent, and whose backers are turning the United States into a pariah.

What, me worry?

With the stuff you get from the gas pump, ya, there is oxygen in the
formula. It is being put there by design for pollution purposes (EPA
mandates) and for economic reasons (sometimes its cheaper to blend straight
gas with something). At a chemical level, gasoline does not contain oxygen.
The key word is formula.

If only the powers that be would quit changing the formula. Carbs are
limited range animals that can't fully handle all that difference. Engines
demand a specific ratio of hydrocarbons to oxygen to produce optimum burn
(or a richer mixture for optimum power). With a constantly changing formula,
it becomes harder or impossible to adjust a carb to produce that optimum.

For more info on gas see
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/gasoline1.htm
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem99658.htm
http://www.smokemup.com/tech/fuels.php



"Matt Lang" wrote in message
om...
I find it highly unlikely that there are no Oxygen (O) atoms in gas....

Matt

"Ken" wrote in message
...
One thing with ethanol is that the stuff contains oxygen atoms along
with
the hydrogen and carbon atoms, where as straight gasoline is hydrogen
and
carbon only. The oxygen tends to lean the mixture entering the engine.
No
matter what carb setting you apply after that, the air/fuel ratio never
gets
back to what it was. A lean mixture will burn hotter and more readily
creates detonation and preignition (4 cylinders inboards tend to have
dieseling problems with the stuff). It can also cause stalling problems.
With cars the oxygenated fuels tends to work ok as the computers and
sensors
keep a good control. With marine engines its a problem.


"Larry Weiss" wrote in message
...
Both of my power boats have developed severe engine hesitation
problems. They run okay at idle but sputter and stall when revved.
My
mechanics have complained that they are seeing this problem left and
right - and are blaming it on the gasoline, which around here (Long
Island, NY) now contains 10% ethanol. I know ethanol is not good for
rubberized fuel lines, but did not know it caused running problems
(unless the fuel lines are deteriorating and clogging). The gas in
each
boat was purchased at a different fuel dock.

If my mechanics are correct, this is a serious regional (national?)
problem. Anyone else experiencing difficulty? Any comments or
suggestions? How can we get gasoline without ethanol in it? How is
the
marine industry addressing this?

Larry Weiss
"...Ever After!"
"a little after..."

Uhhh, kinda embarrassed. Too long since high school, should have done my
research before spouting off... I'll back the other Matt now. Cs&Hs, no Os
until you get into the additives etc.

Been fooling around with wood chemistry too much.

surfnturf

snip the embarassment
"Matt Colie" wrote in message
...
Matt,

Believe it.

Of that stuff you call gasoline (those things that come of the the
distillation between 100 and 200 degF) there is no chemical formulae.

It is all organic hydrocarbon and the best they can due is provide a
hydrogen/cardon ratio. And that is Gasoline...

What gets added after that is anybody's bet. It isn't Tetraethyllead
Pb(C2H5)4 anymore, but it can be any portion of a chemical alphabet
soup (like MTBE, TAME and ETBE) with out even getting to the oxygenates.

Most what was added in teh pst improved the octane rating. now what is
added is largely to improve the combustion efficiency.

Matt Colie (Engine Lab Rat -ret)

On 24 Sep 2004 11:32:13 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

schlackoff, you are even a worse chemist than you are a sailor. I suggest you
ask some high school kid to explain what happens to octane when you remove the
oxygen.

Specious. You know what that means? The question is whether there's
oxygen atoms in gasoline. The answer is yes but a small amount.

Jox, you're the perfect example of what happens to a person when you
remove the oxygen.

Steve

(JAXAshby) wrote in message ...

do a google (if you are capable) on the chemical makeup of octane and see how
many oxygen atoms you find.

Or you could look up the octane rating of methanol (about 100 on the
(R+M)/2 scale) and its chemical formula (CH3OH) and note that a liquid
fuel with a high octane rating can have as many oxygens as carbons.

The octane number on the pump does not tell you how much "real octane"
is in the gasoline. Extra credit exercise: look up octane numbers for
"normal octane", "normal heptane" and "iso-octane" (a.k.a.
2,2,4-trimethyl pentane).

%mod%

dood, rather poor googling on your part. "octane", a physical fact, and
"octane rating", a concept, are not hardly the same thing.

(modervador)
Date: 9/27/2004 1:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

(JAXAshby) wrote in message
...

do a google (if you are capable) on the chemical makeup of octane and see
how
many oxygen atoms you find.

Or you could look up the octane rating of methanol (about 100 on the
(R+M)/2 scale) and its chemical formula (CH3OH) and note that a liquid
fuel with a high octane rating can have as many oxygens as carbons.

The octane number on the pump does not tell you how much "real octane"
is in the gasoline. Extra credit exercise: look up octane numbers for
"normal octane", "normal heptane" and "iso-octane" (a.k.a.
2,2,4-trimethyl pentane).

%mod%