Curtis CCR wrote:


I tend to think the Bush is liked a lot more than most liberal
screamers would want the public to believe.

Probably so. He appears to be a very amiable, likable guy.

... They need to SELL Bush's failure. It ain't
selling itself. Turns out the public isn't as stupid as most
DaschleDems thought.

Really? It seems to me that after months & months of mounting casualties in Iraq, lots of
proclamations about the new boom in the economy with no increase in employment, the accelerated
trend moving companies & jobs out of the US, talk of trade wars, armtwisting their own party,
secretive & insulting relations with the press (except for bought-and-paid-for flacks), the turning
of longstanding international allies into grudging non-enemies, there is little or no success that
the Bush Administration can sell unless they have a $200 million ad budget.

While I still recall with surprise & regret that most of the voters of the nation were fooled by
Nixon, he had a much better product to sell. It's true, you can fool many of the people much of the
time. The question is, will the Bush Administration nsiders be able to stiff-arm their own party
and sell their military & economic disaster to the country by a strategy of 1- lying about
practically everything and keeping as much as possible secret 2- denying as many poor or minority
voters as possible the right to cast their vote & have it counted.

Most of my conservative and Republican friends are increasingly dismayed by BushCo and are
grappling with voting for almost anybody else. Personally I am hoping McCain will run again but the
odds are slim. The only people I know personally who are Bush supporters are hard core Clinton
haters, the one exception is a CPA who says he likes GWB but thinks Cheney is a rotten crook.

I would never have thought that supposedly conservative administration would create a huge increase
in the national debt and ram through socialist pork-barreling and trumpet both to the skies. I have
already seen conservative Republican administrations cause train wrecks in foreign policy, although
I am still disappointed they can't take advice from wiser heads.




But I disagree with your opinion of "NPR's news".

I am one of those republicans that thinks *NPR* does a pretty good job
with NEWS. Their news broadcast, like Morning Edition, and programs
like All Things Considered I think are quite objective.

What you get locally from your local public radio station can be
totally different. But any slant "does not necessarily refelct the
opinion of NPR."

Agreed. Glad to hear you say it. So much of the news they carry is the BBC, I do not comprehend how
anybody in this country could think the BBC has a Democrat slant.

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
...
...the one exception is a CPA who says he likes GWB but thinks Cheney is a
rotten crook...

Hehehe. A CPA calling somebody a crook? Don't you find that a tad bit
ironic in the wake of Enron, Global Crossing, and WorldCom?

WaIIy wrote:

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 17:43:43 -0500, DSK wrote:

Most of my conservative and Republican friends are increasingly dismayed by BushCo and are
grappling with voting for almost anybody else.

Well, you have odd friends.

Lemme see... Bush or Dean? duh

A release of lower intestinal gas would be brighter than Bush...


Bush...the "Wally" President.

Nothing else needs be said.

--
Email sent to is never read.

Curtis CCR wrote:
"NOYB" wrote in message m...


[snip]


72% of this country has a *favorable* opinion of the man "as a person".
Since the left's hate for the man
dominates about half of the news (and *all* of NPR's news), you would think
it was higher than 19% of this
country that so despises him.

I tend to think the Bush is liked a lot more than most liberal
screamers would want the public to believe.

A lot of people like Bush as a person. Why not? He seems affable enough,
just the kind of guy you'd want on a fishing trip or to meet at a bar to
toss back a few.


Harry, jps, et al
wouldn't have to **** up this newsgroup with so much junk if Bush were
*really* doing so poorly. They need to SELL Bush's failure. It ain't
selling itself. Turns out the public isn't as stupid as most
DaschleDems thought.

You're confusing Bush's personal popularity and likability with his
total failure as a president.

--
Email sent to is never read.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
WaIIy wrote:

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 17:43:43 -0500, DSK wrote:

Most of my conservative and Republican friends are increasingly dismayed
by BushCo and are
grappling with voting for almost anybody else.

Conservative and republican friends...conservatives you meet in bars...etc.
Did you notice that there are more and more conservatives beginning to
surround you? That's what happens when you're in the extreme minority.

Oh yeah...one more thing:
Nobody believes that conservatives you are talking to plan to vote for a
Democrat...so please stop looking silly by making up stories.

Harry Krause wrote:
WaIIy wrote:


On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 17:43:43 -0500, DSK wrote:


Most of my conservative and Republican friends are increasingly dismayed by BushCo and are
grappling with voting for almost anybody else.

Well, you have odd friends.

Lemme see... Bush or Dean? duh


A release of lower intestinal gas would be brighter than Bush...

Of course this same president has a great independently verifiable
education, whereas you have none. Has been elected by the people many
times the highlights being governor of texas & the highest job available
for election.

He's been hugely successful in business.

Yet Harry the lying grub says he's dumb????

Imagine if the pres were smart then!!!

K


Here's some of Harry's lies for you, just to bring back old memories:-)




I'm doing my part to ease unemployment. I'm hiring another writer
for my



staff. Will be putting the ad on MONSTER.COM and in the Wash Post.


I need more staff because 2004 is a major election year and business
booked to date indicates we'll be drowning in work. We need to hire a
production coordinator, too. It has very little to do with the state of
the economy, other than using it as reason to defeat Republicrap
candidates.


I'm doing my part to ease unemployment. I'm hiring another writer
for my

staff. Will be putting the ad on MONSTER.COM and in the Wash Post.





We have first-class benefits, including a top-of-the-line health
insurance plan, a non-contributory defined-benefit pension plan, a 401k,
and a life insurance policy equal to annual salary. We contribute a
share of profits to the 401k on behalf of the employee. Our employees
pay $4.50 for generic prescriptions and $8.00 for non-generics, but
that's going up next year to $10 and $15. New employees get two weeks
vacation the first year, and that goes to three weeks the third year. In
addition, we have 12 paid holidays and we shut down from noon on
Christmas eve to the day after New Year's Day. We also provide 20 days
of paid sick leave a year. And we have an outside company administering
pre-tax flexible bennies for our employees.
Our fringe benefit package follows the trade union model, except, of
course, for the profit contributions to 401k's. Trade unions are
not-for-profit enterprises.
How do these compare to the bennies at your shop?

Paid? Every year? I call "bull****". With 3 weeks vacation, 12 paid
holidays, and 20 paid sick days that's 47 *paid* days off every year.
Are
they hourly employees? For a "small business", that's the road to
bankruptcy.

Boy...and you had me going there for a minute.

Not quite so simple, though you are trying hard to make it so. Our
business is up because we're on the cusp of an election year. Our
business always goes up in a major election year.
You could say we're going to be doing very well in 2004 because Bush is
such a total failure.


The 20 paid sick days aren't part of the "paid" days off unless those
days are used. None of our people abuses sick leave. In fact, no one as
yet has even come close to using 20 sick days in one year. They're there
in case they're needed.


Oh, I forgot. We also provide everyone with LTD.

The company provides an insurance plan that pays 50% of an employe's
salary for Long Term Disability. Employes have the option of purchasing
an additional 16.66%, bringing their total to 66.66%. The basic benefit
maximum is $4,000 per month. With the buy up, the limit is increased to
$10,000 per month.



Here's just some of his prior lies (in his own words pasted);

I sold off nearly $3,000,000 in new motors and boats, depressing
the new boat
industry in southern Connecticut for an entire season. Everything was
sold...every
cotter pin, every quart of oil, 30 days after I started. For near
full-retail, too.


He had just under $1,000,000 on floor plan with a
syndicate of banks led by National Shawmut of Boston. He had been a
solid customer of that back for more than 20 years and they gave him
great rates.



As far as your other complaints, well, almost every president in
my memory,
and I *remember* Truman, Eisenhower (who cheated on his wife),
Kennedy,
Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan and Bush, lied and
participated in
deceit to one degree or another, and on issues far more important
than who
was giving them blow jobs.

Good lord. I met *every* president in the damned group except
Bush, and I
worked once for his father.



My father used to pray that the north shore of LI Sound would be
hit by
a mild hurricane. No
one injured, no on-shore property damaged, but lots of boats sunk.
Preferably early in July.


We had the Hatteras for two years. Last year, out of the cold
clear, a
broker approached me with an offer to buy. Our continued Florida
lifestyle was somewhat up in the air, because the two breadwinners
hereabouts were about to be offered long-term but temporary
assignments
they could not refuse in the Washington, D.C., area. So, after being
romanced a little, we sold the Hatt for almost precisely what we paid
for it. Not bad, after two full years of use. And I mean full
years. So,
we didn't "make" any money off the Hatt, but we didn't lose any,
either.
The proceeds were prudently invested.

The PWC was won as
a prize in a raffle.



Never mind that. Why does he have a Bilgeliner in front of his
office?
Is it a display of "Boating Don'ts?"
Yeah, when we were in the boat biz, my father always had one or two








"around the back" that he was forced to take in trade. These were
sold
as "as is, where is." He made sure the engine would start and run.
Beyond that, it was up to the prospective buyer to decide if he
wanted
it. They moved off the lot pretty quickly, partially because my dad's
main store was on a highly trafficked commercial route with lots of
manufacturing and machining and aerospace plants near by. In
those days,
workers at these places could fix anything.


Actually, Dipper, I don't think my father ever saw a Bayliner.
But he still
called bumpers bumpers.
--



Bayliner wined and dined my father a half dozen times to
entice him
into becoming its dealer. His operation was the largest small boat
dealership in its area of New England, and for 30 years, he was the
*exclusive* Evinrude dealer in a densely populated coastal county. He
also handled Mercuries. He never liked Bayliners, and referred to
them
as "jerry-built."


From 1947 until he died, he sold more than 500 outboard motors a
year from his stores, accounting for a reasonably high percentage
of *all*
outboards sold in his home state for those years.


This is a killer. My father was in the boat business dating back to
right after
the Big War. When he died and I was looking through his
warehouse, I found
wrapped in a nuclear fall-out bag (no kidding), a brand-new 1949
Evinrude 8015
50 hp outboard. The motor was a gift to my father from Evinrude for
winning some
outboard stock utility or hydroplane race.

I gave the motor to a friend of my dad's, who worked at the shop
as head
mechanic. I don't believe he ever used it and I'm sure it is still
brand-new. I
have no idea who might own it now.



He also built
boats, and I worked on a few, both wood, glass covered wood and
all fiberglass. After he died, however, we sold the biz and I've
just been an occasional boat owner.


Besides, I worked off and on in the
boat business and inherited it when he died. So, as I said, I'm
knee-deep in boat heritage.


Oh,
and I had some friends who died in the service, too, but it
wasn't for
what they believed in. They were drafted, shipped to Vietnam and came
back in body bags.


During the war, he turned out experimental brass shell casings
for the
Army and hopped up outboards for the Navy, which wanted to use
them on
smaller
landing craft. I had photos at one time of my father with Ole
Evinrude
himself.
My mother knew one of Evinrude's wives...she was a minor movie
star or
singer...I forgot which. Maybe both.



Have you ever sailed from San Francisco to Hawaii? I have.
Have you ever rounded Cape Horn? I have, twice.
Have you ever transited the Panama Canal? I have.
Have you owned more than 20 boats in your lifetime? I have.
Have you ever sailed large boats competitively? I have.
Have you ever been hundreds of miles from land in a powerboat
under your
command? I have.


My father and his chief mechanic once crossed the Atlantic in
winter in
a 22'
boat powered by twin outboards. Yes, it is possible, even the
fuel. Got a
"fireboat" welcome in NYC.




Here are some:

Hatteras 43' sportfish
Swan 41' racing/cruising sloop
Morgan 33
O'Day 30
Cruisers, Inc., Mackinac 22
Century Coronado
Bill Luders 16, as sweet a sailboat as ever caught a breeze.
Century 19' wood lapstrake with side wheel steering
Cruisers, Inc. 18' and 16' wood lapstrakes
Wolverines. Molded plywood. Gorgeous. Several. 14,15,17 footers
with various
Evinrudes
Lighting class sailboat
Botved Coronet with twin 50 hp Evinrudes. Interesting boat.
Aristocraft (a piece of junk...13', fast, held together with spit)
Alcort Sunfish
Ancarrow Marine Aquiflyer. 22' footer with two Caddy Crusaders.
Guaranteed 60
mph. In the late 1950's.
Skimmar brand skiff
Arkansas Traveler fiberglass bowrider (I think it was a bowrider)
Dyer Dhow
Su-Mark round bilge runabout, fiberglass
Penn Yan runabouts. Wood.
Old Town wood and canvas canoe
Old Ton sailing canoe...different than above canoe



Sometime in the early 1960s, I was driving back from Ft. Leonard
Wood to
Kansas City in a nice old MGA I owned at the time. About halfway
home it
started raining heavily, I turned on the wipers, and EVERY SINGLE
electrical accessory and light in the car flashed on, there was a
large
popping sound and it all blew out at once. And the car caught fire. I
pulled over to the side of the road, watched the fire, removed my
license plate and hitched on home. For all I know, that old MGA
is still
there.

Sure was a pretty little car.


Puh-lease, Karen. You've not seen nor have I ever posted one
example of
my professional writings on building structure and the effects on
it of
hurricane-force winds and seismic activity. I haven't done any of
these
in at least 10 year, but at the time I was field researching,
photographing and writing these reports, they were quite accurate,
topical and well-received by their intended audiences.


A small fleet of Polar skiffs were purchased by an inshore bait,
tackle

and boat rental business on the ICW in NE Florida. These boats
were not
used on open waters. Within 90 days, cracks developed in the
liners that
also served as the deck over the flotation in the bottom of the
hulls. A
guide I know, one whose boats and engines are supplied to him by
manufacturers, also had a Polar skiff go bad on him for the same
reasons
-liner and then hull fractures.








Harry has claimed to have a 20 yrs his junior beautiful wife, he
even put a fake pic of a beautiful woman on a website once claiming it
was his "young bride", he may have a wife, although I doubt it, we don't
like nor tolerate misogynists for long.

Needless to say he's made up many "dramatic" over the top
stories over the years about this lie to feed his ego & pretend he's the
centre of attention, but as with his boat claims & other crap, there's
never once been even a shred of independently verifiable material.

After he stalked Madcow in real life, which was most
frightening, I do suspect he's very very dangerous & that this "bride"
story is his delusional appropriation of his, probably court ordered,
treating psychotherapist as "wife" (it seems he was under lock & key for
what?? over a year??? a sexual deviant maybe??), have a read of just a
small part of his BS & make up your own mind, it's all about free choice:-)


1. She *is* my bride. There are no rules that determine the end of
"bride-hood." If I want to refer to her as my bride, I may.

2. As a professional writer, I know the rules of language and am
entitled to
break them in exercise of my license.

3. I doubt many married women would object to their husbands lovingly
referring to them as brides. The connotations are pleasant.

4. She's 20 years younger than I am.



Naw. What happened was that I handled a couple of "political"
consulting
jobs funded out of the DC area to help a few candidates and defeat a
couple of ballot issues. Through no fault of mine, we won each of the
races, so some of the deep pockets types based in the DC area think I
actually *know something* about the process. I was offered a contract
that requires my presence in DC quite frequently. My bride also was
offered a job up here that represented a significant professional
career
move. So, we're "up here" much of the time and "down there" the rest of
it, except when we're "somewhere else." I've been back to Jax (well,
really south of Jax) five times since coming "up here" late last summer
and my bride just returned from a business trip there.

I swear this is true.


Here's a funny. My bride had to fly out to San Diego Wednesday and
hitched a ride on her company's corporate jet. They landed in Salina,
Kansas, which is due north of Wichita and Skippy's suburb of Derby.

So when she gets to San Diego, I get a call asking, "What the hell did
you do in Kansas...we didn't fly over one significant patch of
water...?"

Harry, you make over 500 posts a week to this group and you don't own
a boat?
And why are you so crabby?
Maybe these two factors are related?



One has to own something to use it? Hmmm. My bride drives off in
her car
every day, but she doesn't own it.

I'm not crabby. You asked for advice I gave you some. I questioned your
wanting to take a very small boat out into high seas and suddenly you
turned sour. It's your pot; you are the one stewing in it.

No, it is the boat of a friend. It is a 24' ProLine center console
with,
if I recall, a 225 hp Merc on it. It was a dark and stormy day in
January (1997) when we went out, but the sky cleared once we got out to
the Gulf Stream.


Bride and I caught and released:

1 white marlin
12-15 yellowtail snappers, maybe two pounds each. Pretty, pretty fish.
Assorted red snappers
1 amberjack
2 jack crevalle jacks
1 snook
Nondescript sharks

Did you spend a year as a line psychotherapist at a 650-bed state
hospital for forensic patients?
Did you spend a year as senior psychotherapist at a county facility for
substance abusers?
Did you spend two years as chief of therapy at a private, 200-bed
facility for the mentally and emotionally ill, at which approximately
half the patients were trying to beat drugs or alcohol?
Are you currently chief of therapy for a for a multi-practitioner
practice of some 825 patients, about a third of which are seeking help
for substance abuse problems?


Licensed psychotherapist
Screening as to character and background for each degree earned
On-going screening by faculty while in educational system
Interviews and screenings for required years of internships, plus,
at the same
time, supervision by a licensed professional.
Close professional and personal supervision by a licensed therapist
for two years
of employment before being allowed to apply for licensure
Licensure background check, submission of recommendations by licensed
practitioners
Four hour written examination on state laws
Five hour written examination on diagnosis, procedure and practice

My wife went through this before becoming licensed. Her final
internship was as a
psychotherapist at a 600-bed high security state psychiatric
hospital where, on a
daily basis, she was exposed to more danger than your average soldier.

My wife worked for a year as psychotherapist in a Florida 600-bed state
mental institution for forensic patients. She saw and treated numerous
sexual deviants who do a bit more than expose themselves. Such
"treatment"
is part of being in the mental health professions.


You see, I'm a nautical psychotherapist, and for only $125 an hour,
until their health insurance runs out, I help Bayliner owners
overcome their
feelings of boatable inadequacy.


She is a licensed, practicing
psychotherapist and often tells me I am the sanest person she sees each
day. Which can be taken any way one likes.


1. I'm married to a psychotherapist. Live-in therapy, dontcha know?
And much of
Freud is passe.

My ex-wife surpassed the anti-Christ at least a decade ago.

They're not actually "free" moments. I go to boat dealers to round-up
Bayliner owners who are trying to find one who will take their own
version of flotsam and jetsam in on trade.


1. The address listed is not a home address. It is an office.

2. I have three phone numbers. The phone number listed is not one of
mine. It has never been one of mine. The phone number *did* belong
to an
after-hours message recording hotline my wife maintained for her most
mentally disturbed patients. Some of these troubled souls were
court-ordered referrals. *Every* call to that phone number--every
call--was recorded AND because of the nature of the line, my wife had
the ability to alert the telephone company to trace the phone number of
every incoming call to that line, *even* if the person making the call
tried to block his number.

Why, you might ask? Because when you are dealing with suicidal people,
they'll liable to tell their therapist over the phone that they are
planning to take their life. If the therapist believes the threat is
real, she or he will want to dispatch emergency srvices and perhaps the
police.

In the years my wife has provided this pro bono service, she has never
received a threatening or abusive call from a mentally ill patient or
court-ordered referral. However, after the ranking Flaming Ass of this
newsgroup posted the hotline number in this newsgroup, she received a
number of abusive, foul-mouthed AND life-threatening calls. These were
mostly directed at me but, of course, I never received them BECAUSE
(duh!) the phone is not mine and I've never answered it.
Naturally, my wife alerted the authorities, with whom she works closely
because of her court-referred patients. The authorities are
investigating the callers and have involved both the FBI *and*
authorities in other states, including Florida, Georgia, California and
Texas. Working with the telephone company, the authorities have been
able to trace the origin of virtually every abusive call. And, of
course, they have the tape recordings of the abusive messages. Several
suspects have been identified. I really don't know what the outcome of
all this will be. We haven't had an update in several weeks, nor are
either of us here that interested in the sleazeballs that would make
such calls.


The phone number, of course, is "wired," so when the obnoxious
calls came in
from the idiot rec.boaters, the numbers were easy enough to trace.
The local
police handled a complaint, the local telco was involved and when
it was
discovered the point of origin was out of state, the FBI got
involved. At
least one of the idiots was caught and prosecuted. As far as I can
tell, he
has not posted here again

Bush...the "Wally" President.

Nothing else needs be said.

Bush...the "Wally" President.

Nothing else needs be said.


Don't look now, but there's a bunch of Wally's out there, and they all get to
vote.

The Dems will have to get hustling. :-)

NOYB wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
WaIIy wrote:

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 17:43:43 -0500, DSK wrote:

Most of my conservative and Republican friends are increasingly dismayed
by BushCo and are
grappling with voting for almost anybody else.

Conservative and republican friends...conservatives you meet in bars...etc.
Did you notice that there are more and more conservatives beginning to
surround you?


No; I don't spend a lot of time in the fly-over zone.


That's what happens when you're in the extreme minority.

Oh, puh-lease. Your dumb boy came in second in the popular vote last
time around.


Oh yeah...one more thing:
Nobody believes that conservatives you are talking to plan to vote for a
Democrat...so please stop looking silly by making up stories.

You look even sillier when you make such claims. Not all conservatives
are stupid enough to vote for Bush...again.


--
Email sent to is never read.

Gould 0738 wrote:

Bush...the "Wally" President.

Nothing else needs be said.


Don't look now, but there's a bunch of Wally's out there, and they all get to
vote.

The Dems will have to get hustling. :-)

Oh, absolutely. And it is always tough to unseat a "sitting" President.
But a lotta chinks are showing up in this Bush's "armor," so to speak.

We do have too many Wallys in this country, and are becoming a nation of
unwashed sheeples, just like Wally.

--
Email sent to is never read.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message news:br6ro9

Oh, puh-lease. Your dumb boy came in second in the popular vote last
time around.

Ah, Harry, the same old song. Read your Constitution! There is no such
thing as a "popular vote" on a national basis. In fact, there is no such
thing as a national election in this country. You might just as well claim
that Al should have won because he's taller!