After perhaps 8 or so surveys over the years being both purchase
surveys (which are the expensive ones) and insurance surveys (
which are the cheaper ones), I've never had any surveyor mention
anything about the CG mandated equipment other than fire extinguishers
begin sufficuent and current. None of any of the surveyors checklists
contained anything about flares, signalling devices, PFDs, waste
management plan, oil discharge placard, waste discharge rules placard,
etc. Those items are left to the CG safety inspection or the courtesy
inspections conducted by the CG Aux. No insurance has had any
complaints other than sending me a form that I could indicate that
I complied or wil comply with the "required" items.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Rod McInnis" wrote in message
...

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
A surveyor has no business in this kind of thing.


Why do you say that?

I have had several surveys done, and each time I had the option of a
"limited" survey focusing on a specific item or a "general" survey that
covered overall value, integrity and condition.

The insurance company is going to want the overall survey, and they will
want to know that the vessel has all the "recommended" safety equipment,
which is often over and above the required list. In order to provide such
a
survey to the insurance company, the surveyor DOES have the business of
being in this kind of thing.

Rod McInnis

Some of these surveyors, I believe, are on the insurance co. 'short list' or
referral list. I suspect that looking into all of the safety equipment gives
the surveyor a feel for the skippers attitude towards safety /condtion of
the vessel.

I usually make every effort to have all the gear laid out so he doesn't have
to waste any time on it.. Time saved while waiting for me to find a safety
item is time you could use to check for some truly significant items. Plus,
it just demonstrates my interest and concern about these matters.

The last surveyor I use is a semi retired merchant master and also served in
the USCG. I'm not afraid of what he might find on my boat, but when he ask
about a bell, I reminded him that my boat was under the required length
requiring a bell. I think the only reason he ask was because he normal does
larger and commercial vessels.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

x-no-archive:yes "Doug Dotson" wrote:

After perhaps 8 or so surveys over the years being both purchase
surveys (which are the expensive ones) and insurance surveys (
which are the cheaper ones), I've never had any surveyor mention
anything about the CG mandated equipment other than fire extinguishers
begin sufficuent and current. None of any of the surveyors checklists
contained anything about flares, signalling devices, PFDs, waste
management plan, oil discharge placard, waste discharge rules placard,
etc. Those items are left to the CG safety inspection or the courtesy
inspections conducted by the CG Aux. No insurance has had any
complaints other than sending me a form that I could indicate that
I complied or wil comply with the "required" items.

OTOH we've had 1 purchase survey and several insurance surveys and all
of them addressed all or most of those items. I thought that was the
norm.

I just got out the initial survey to look at it and on the last page
it addresses:

Minimum Inshore and Coastal Equipment
-horn and/or whistle (aboard)
-bell (none observed)
-PFDs - aboard all US CG approved including throwable type IV
-fire extinguishers - all mounted and show charge
-automatic fire suppression for engine room (none at that time, but
we've got one now)
-compass (Ritchie) and deviation table for compass (none observed)
-distress flares (aboard and correspond to CG regulations)
-anchors (listed the Danforth)
-gas vapor detector (none but we have one now)
-high bilge alarm (none)
-first aid kit (none observed but we have one now)
-bilge pumps - work
- EPIRB (none but we have one now)
-USCG No discharge sign (posted)
-Federal no dumping sign-posted (no garbage management plan was seen,
but we have one now)

Of course all the surveyors were from the same office. The
pre-purchase surveyor was the head guy in the office and we picked him
on the recommendation of several trusted friends and relatives as THE
surveyor in the area (the broker was unhappy but couldn't do anything
about it), and he lived up to his reputation. In fact when we
switched insurance companies, the new insurance company took his
pre-purchase survey without requiring another one. The other
surveyors from that office used the initial survey to check off that
we'd fixed the things that were mentioned as deficient in the first
survey.

We did have a CGX courtesy inspection, and Bob did not show them the
autoinflate PFDs that we wear when underway because they aren't
approved. He just showed them the regular life vests.


"Rod McInnis" wrote in message
...

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
A surveyor has no business in this kind of thing.


Why do you say that?

I have had several surveys done, and each time I had the option of a
"limited" survey focusing on a specific item or a "general" survey that
covered overall value, integrity and condition.

The insurance company is going to want the overall survey, and they will
want to know that the vessel has all the "recommended" safety equipment,
which is often over and above the required list. In order to provide such
a
survey to the insurance company, the surveyor DOES have the business of
being in this kind of thing.

Rod McInnis




grandma Rosalie

S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD
CSY 44 WO #156
http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id2.html

That's what irritates me about surveyors. There is no damm requirement for a
compass deviation card, or compass for that matter. Neither an EPIRB, an
anchor, a high bilge alarm, etc. However, if they put that on the survey the
insurance company is probably going to require you put them in within 30
days.

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
x-no-archive:yes "Doug Dotson" wrote:

After perhaps 8 or so surveys over the years being both purchase
surveys (which are the expensive ones) and insurance surveys (
which are the cheaper ones), I've never had any surveyor mention
anything about the CG mandated equipment other than fire extinguishers
begin sufficuent and current. None of any of the surveyors checklists
contained anything about flares, signalling devices, PFDs, waste
management plan, oil discharge placard, waste discharge rules placard,
etc. Those items are left to the CG safety inspection or the courtesy
inspections conducted by the CG Aux. No insurance has had any
complaints other than sending me a form that I could indicate that
I complied or wil comply with the "required" items.

OTOH we've had 1 purchase survey and several insurance surveys and all
of them addressed all or most of those items. I thought that was the
norm.

I just got out the initial survey to look at it and on the last page
it addresses:

Minimum Inshore and Coastal Equipment
-horn and/or whistle (aboard)
-bell (none observed)
-PFDs - aboard all US CG approved including throwable type IV
-fire extinguishers - all mounted and show charge
-automatic fire suppression for engine room (none at that time, but
we've got one now)
-compass (Ritchie) and deviation table for compass (none observed)
-distress flares (aboard and correspond to CG regulations)
-anchors (listed the Danforth)
-gas vapor detector (none but we have one now)
-high bilge alarm (none)
-first aid kit (none observed but we have one now)
-bilge pumps - work
- EPIRB (none but we have one now)
-USCG No discharge sign (posted)
-Federal no dumping sign-posted (no garbage management plan was seen,
but we have one now)

Of course all the surveyors were from the same office. The
pre-purchase surveyor was the head guy in the office and we picked him
on the recommendation of several trusted friends and relatives as THE
surveyor in the area (the broker was unhappy but couldn't do anything
about it), and he lived up to his reputation. In fact when we
switched insurance companies, the new insurance company took his
pre-purchase survey without requiring another one. The other
surveyors from that office used the initial survey to check off that
we'd fixed the things that were mentioned as deficient in the first
survey.

We did have a CGX courtesy inspection, and Bob did not show them the
autoinflate PFDs that we wear when underway because they aren't
approved. He just showed them the regular life vests.


"Rod McInnis" wrote in message
...

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
A surveyor has no business in this kind of thing.


Why do you say that?

I have had several surveys done, and each time I had the option of a
"limited" survey focusing on a specific item or a "general" survey that
covered overall value, integrity and condition.

The insurance company is going to want the overall survey, and they
will
want to know that the vessel has all the "recommended" safety
equipment,
which is often over and above the required list. In order to provide
such
a
survey to the insurance company, the surveyor DOES have the business of
being in this kind of thing.

Rod McInnis




grandma Rosalie

S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD
CSY 44 WO #156
http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id2.html

x-no-archive:yes



"Keith" wrote:

That's what irritates me about surveyors. There is no damm requirement for a
compass deviation card, or compass for that matter. Neither an EPIRB, an
anchor, a high bilge alarm, etc. However, if they put that on the survey the
insurance company is probably going to require you put them in within 30
days.

It wasn't listed as a REQUIREMENT, just as for safety item. And we
still don't have a deviation card posted anywhere, although we did go
out and do one, and we have it somewhere. I don't think we have a
high bilge alarm either. Have never heard it in any case. And the
insurance company hasn't required them. We did get a discount for an
automatic fire extinguisher in the engine room.

It was, as I said, the last page of the survey - the items were
prioritized according to how serious the surveyor thought they were,
and some of the things we just haven't done - sometimes because Bob
disagreed with the surveyor on what the configuration should be. This
wasn't an insurance survey. We've not had a problem with being
required to do something within 30 days. Maybe that's because the
boat was and is in good shape and maintenance is ongoing. It isn't
just left to sit.


"Rosalie B." wrote in message
.. .
x-no-archive:yes "Doug Dotson" wrote:

After perhaps 8 or so surveys over the years being both purchase
surveys (which are the expensive ones) and insurance surveys (
which are the cheaper ones), I've never had any surveyor mention
anything about the CG mandated equipment other than fire extinguishers
begin sufficuent and current. None of any of the surveyors checklists
contained anything about flares, signalling devices, PFDs, waste
management plan, oil discharge placard, waste discharge rules placard,
etc. Those items are left to the CG safety inspection or the courtesy
inspections conducted by the CG Aux. No insurance has had any
complaints other than sending me a form that I could indicate that
I complied or wil comply with the "required" items.

OTOH we've had 1 purchase survey and several insurance surveys and all
of them addressed all or most of those items. I thought that was the
norm.

I just got out the initial survey to look at it and on the last page
it addresses:

Minimum Inshore and Coastal Equipment
-horn and/or whistle (aboard)
-bell (none observed)
-PFDs - aboard all US CG approved including throwable type IV
-fire extinguishers - all mounted and show charge
-automatic fire suppression for engine room (none at that time, but
we've got one now)
-compass (Ritchie) and deviation table for compass (none observed)
-distress flares (aboard and correspond to CG regulations)
-anchors (listed the Danforth)
-gas vapor detector (none but we have one now)
-high bilge alarm (none)
-first aid kit (none observed but we have one now)
-bilge pumps - work
- EPIRB (none but we have one now)
-USCG No discharge sign (posted)
-Federal no dumping sign-posted (no garbage management plan was seen,
but we have one now)

Of course all the surveyors were from the same office. The
pre-purchase surveyor was the head guy in the office and we picked him
on the recommendation of several trusted friends and relatives as THE
surveyor in the area (the broker was unhappy but couldn't do anything
about it), and he lived up to his reputation. In fact when we
switched insurance companies, the new insurance company took his
pre-purchase survey without requiring another one. The other
surveyors from that office used the initial survey to check off that
we'd fixed the things that were mentioned as deficient in the first
survey.

We did have a CGX courtesy inspection, and Bob did not show them the
autoinflate PFDs that we wear when underway because they aren't
approved. He just showed them the regular life vests.


"Rod McInnis" wrote in message
...

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
A surveyor has no business in this kind of thing.


Why do you say that?

I have had several surveys done, and each time I had the option of a
"limited" survey focusing on a specific item or a "general" survey that
covered overall value, integrity and condition.

The insurance company is going to want the overall survey, and they
will
want to know that the vessel has all the "recommended" safety
equipment,
which is often over and above the required list. In order to provide
such
a
survey to the insurance company, the surveyor DOES have the business of
being in this kind of thing.

Rod McInnis




grandma Rosalie

S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD
CSY 44 WO #156
http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id2.html


grandma Rosalie

Well, you said that the survey said "minimum inshore and coastal equipment"
and you had these things missing. Assuming your surveyor meant what he said,
your insurance company would normally require you to fix, repair, or add
these things within 30 days. They didn't? You're lucky.

Mine put down something to the effect that my sight tubes on my diesel tanks
were vinyl tubing. He stated "while acceptable, they should be replaced with
polycarbonate tubes." Even though he said they were acceptable, since he put
it in that section of things that needed to be addressed, the insurance
company required me to change them. PITA. You just have to be careful to
make sure your surveyor puts things like that in a "suggestions" area
instead of "requirements" or "safety and operability" section unless they
really belong there.


"Rosalie B." wrote in message
news
x-no-archive:yes



"Keith" wrote:

That's what irritates me about surveyors. There is no damm requirement
for a
compass deviation card, or compass for that matter. Neither an EPIRB, an
anchor, a high bilge alarm, etc. However, if they put that on the survey
the
insurance company is probably going to require you put them in within 30
days.

It wasn't listed as a REQUIREMENT, just as for safety item. And we
still don't have a deviation card posted anywhere, although we did go
out and do one, and we have it somewhere. I don't think we have a
high bilge alarm either. Have never heard it in any case. And the
insurance company hasn't required them. We did get a discount for an
automatic fire extinguisher in the engine room.

It was, as I said, the last page of the survey - the items were
prioritized according to how serious the surveyor thought they were,
and some of the things we just haven't done - sometimes because Bob
disagreed with the surveyor on what the configuration should be. This
wasn't an insurance survey. We've not had a problem with being
required to do something within 30 days. Maybe that's because the
boat was and is in good shape and maintenance is ongoing. It isn't
just left to sit.


"Rosalie B." wrote in message
.. .
x-no-archive:yes "Doug Dotson" wrote:

After perhaps 8 or so surveys over the years being both purchase
surveys (which are the expensive ones) and insurance surveys (
which are the cheaper ones), I've never had any surveyor mention
anything about the CG mandated equipment other than fire extinguishers
begin sufficuent and current. None of any of the surveyors checklists
contained anything about flares, signalling devices, PFDs, waste
management plan, oil discharge placard, waste discharge rules placard,
etc. Those items are left to the CG safety inspection or the courtesy
inspections conducted by the CG Aux. No insurance has had any
complaints other than sending me a form that I could indicate that
I complied or wil comply with the "required" items.

OTOH we've had 1 purchase survey and several insurance surveys and all
of them addressed all or most of those items. I thought that was the
norm.

I just got out the initial survey to look at it and on the last page
it addresses:

Minimum Inshore and Coastal Equipment
-horn and/or whistle (aboard)
-bell (none observed)
-PFDs - aboard all US CG approved including throwable type IV
-fire extinguishers - all mounted and show charge
-automatic fire suppression for engine room (none at that time, but
we've got one now)
-compass (Ritchie) and deviation table for compass (none observed)
-distress flares (aboard and correspond to CG regulations)
-anchors (listed the Danforth)
-gas vapor detector (none but we have one now)
-high bilge alarm (none)
-first aid kit (none observed but we have one now)
-bilge pumps - work
- EPIRB (none but we have one now)
-USCG No discharge sign (posted)
-Federal no dumping sign-posted (no garbage management plan was seen,
but we have one now)

Of course all the surveyors were from the same office. The
pre-purchase surveyor was the head guy in the office and we picked him
on the recommendation of several trusted friends and relatives as THE
surveyor in the area (the broker was unhappy but couldn't do anything
about it), and he lived up to his reputation. In fact when we
switched insurance companies, the new insurance company took his
pre-purchase survey without requiring another one. The other
surveyors from that office used the initial survey to check off that
we'd fixed the things that were mentioned as deficient in the first
survey.

We did have a CGX courtesy inspection, and Bob did not show them the
autoinflate PFDs that we wear when underway because they aren't
approved. He just showed them the regular life vests.


"Rod McInnis" wrote in message
...

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
A surveyor has no business in this kind of thing.


Why do you say that?

I have had several surveys done, and each time I had the option of a
"limited" survey focusing on a specific item or a "general" survey
that
covered overall value, integrity and condition.

The insurance company is going to want the overall survey, and they
will
want to know that the vessel has all the "recommended" safety
equipment,
which is often over and above the required list. In order to
provide
such
a
survey to the insurance company, the surveyor DOES have the business
of
being in this kind of thing.

Rod McInnis




grandma Rosalie

S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD
CSY 44 WO #156
http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id2.html


grandma Rosalie

I've had a couple NAMS members share their checklists, and what Rosalie
describes is what these guys look for. They also check the dates on the
flares.

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
x-no-archive:yes "Doug Dotson" wrote:

After perhaps 8 or so surveys over the years being both purchase
surveys (which are the expensive ones) and insurance surveys (
which are the cheaper ones), I've never had any surveyor mention
anything about the CG mandated equipment other than fire extinguishers
begin sufficuent and current. None of any of the surveyors checklists
contained anything about flares, signalling devices, PFDs, waste
management plan, oil discharge placard, waste discharge rules placard,
etc. Those items are left to the CG safety inspection or the courtesy
inspections conducted by the CG Aux. No insurance has had any
complaints other than sending me a form that I could indicate that
I complied or wil comply with the "required" items.

OTOH we've had 1 purchase survey and several insurance surveys and all
of them addressed all or most of those items. I thought that was the
norm.

I just got out the initial survey to look at it and on the last page
it addresses:

Minimum Inshore and Coastal Equipment
-horn and/or whistle (aboard)
-bell (none observed)
-PFDs - aboard all US CG approved including throwable type IV
-fire extinguishers - all mounted and show charge
-automatic fire suppression for engine room (none at that time, but
we've got one now)
-compass (Ritchie) and deviation table for compass (none observed)
-distress flares (aboard and correspond to CG regulations)
-anchors (listed the Danforth)
-gas vapor detector (none but we have one now)
-high bilge alarm (none)
-first aid kit (none observed but we have one now)
-bilge pumps - work
- EPIRB (none but we have one now)
-USCG No discharge sign (posted)
-Federal no dumping sign-posted (no garbage management plan was seen,
but we have one now)

Of course all the surveyors were from the same office. The
pre-purchase surveyor was the head guy in the office and we picked him
on the recommendation of several trusted friends and relatives as THE
surveyor in the area (the broker was unhappy but couldn't do anything
about it), and he lived up to his reputation. In fact when we
switched insurance companies, the new insurance company took his
pre-purchase survey without requiring another one. The other
surveyors from that office used the initial survey to check off that
we'd fixed the things that were mentioned as deficient in the first
survey.

We did have a CGX courtesy inspection, and Bob did not show them the
autoinflate PFDs that we wear when underway because they aren't
approved. He just showed them the regular life vests.