I just spent my summer vacation working my butt off building a new dock
at my Muskoka cottage - the old one only lasted 18 years because I used
pine logs and 2 x 6 spruce, but I expect this one to be around a bit
longer due to the 8 x 12 Douglas Fir beams I lugged into place and the
small fortune spent on cedar decking.

We can't use it to moor the boats yet because I haven't found cleats or
mooring rings which meet my requirements at local suppliers. I want
something sturdy enough to withstand wave action (it's a small
freshwater lake, but being on a channel we are subjected to some pretty
inconsiderate wakes), preferably recessed so the kids don't stub their
toes while playing running and diving games, yet still usable in the
late fall when there is often snow and ice on the dock (ice sticks to
galvanised hardware like glue), and, last but not least, rustproof.

The old dock had zinc-plated rings attached with lag-screw eyes. They
held the boats fine (until wood rot set in and they started to pull
out), but the kids were constantly bashing their toes on them and they
rusted. A neighbour has recessed rings which are kid feet-friendly, and
not too bad in fall provided you carry a large screwdriver to prise the
rings up when they are frozen into the recesses, but they are also rusty
- and I'm pretty sure they are actually trapdoor pulls from Home Depot
and were not designed for mooring stresses (Hint: they came with 3/4"
mounting screws).

I've seen some anodised aluminium folding cleats, but they were not
cheap, only available in white (I'd prefer stainless steel), and looked
like they'd be unusable when frozen.

Anyone know where I can obtain recessed stainless steel rings designed
for the task? Or know of a better design given my criteria?

TIA

Sunny

"Sunny" wrote in message
.. .
I just spent my summer vacation working my butt off building a new dock
at my Muskoka cottage - the old one only lasted 18 years because I used
pine logs and 2 x 6 spruce, but I expect this one to be around a bit
longer due to the 8 x 12 Douglas Fir beams I lugged into place and the
small fortune spent on cedar decking.

We can't use it to moor the boats yet because I haven't found cleats or
mooring rings which meet my requirements at local suppliers. I want
something sturdy enough to withstand wave action (it's a small
freshwater lake, but being on a channel we are subjected to some pretty
inconsiderate wakes), preferably recessed so the kids don't stub their
toes while playing running and diving games, yet still usable in the
late fall when there is often snow and ice on the dock (ice sticks to
galvanised hardware like glue), and, last but not least, rustproof.

The old dock had zinc-plated rings attached with lag-screw eyes. They
held the boats fine (until wood rot set in and they started to pull
out), but the kids were constantly bashing their toes on them and they
rusted. A neighbour has recessed rings which are kid feet-friendly, and
not too bad in fall provided you carry a large screwdriver to prise the
rings up when they are frozen into the recesses, but they are also rusty
- and I'm pretty sure they are actually trapdoor pulls from Home Depot
and were not designed for mooring stresses (Hint: they came with 3/4"
mounting screws).

I've seen some anodised aluminium folding cleats, but they were not
cheap, only available in white (I'd prefer stainless steel), and looked
like they'd be unusable when frozen.

Anyone know where I can obtain recessed stainless steel rings designed
for the task? Or know of a better design given my criteria?

I always vote for cleats on docks because there are days when you're trying
to get a line around SOMETHING as you dock, but the wind is not cooperating,
nobody's there to help and you only have one hand free. Try that with a
ring. If it were me, I'd teach the kids how to look out for the cleats.
Besides, nobody's every died from a stubbed toe.

But, if you insist, you could recess normal cleats. I'm visualizing a way,
but first, two definitions. Rails: The boards which run the length of the
dock. Crosspieces: The other boards - running across the dock. If you
removed a crosspiece or two (whatever's necessary), attached an
appropriately shaped piece (or two) of wood to the inside of each rail, and
shortened the crosspiece(s) in that location, the cleats should sit somewhat
lower than the surrounding surface. To make the resulting notch
finger-friendly (for the person tying the lines), you'd probably want to
angle the edges of the crosspieces as you shorten them.

As far as strength, don't attach cleats with wood screws. Use the thickest
bolts that'll fit the cleats properly, and back the wood with big washers,
or even a plate of metal. Most home centers sell bars of steel that aren't
so hard to cut. I just saw some at Home Depot. Be sure not to buy toy
cleats - the kind that don't fit any rope a smart person would ever use. If
a cleat won't accept 1/2" rope, it's nonsense.

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Sunny" wrote in message
.. .

I just spent my summer vacation working my butt off building a new dock
at my Muskoka cottage - the old one only lasted 18 years because I used
pine logs and 2 x 6 spruce, but I expect this one to be around a bit
longer due to the 8 x 12 Douglas Fir beams I lugged into place and the
small fortune spent on cedar decking.

We can't use it to moor the boats yet because I haven't found cleats or
mooring rings which meet my requirements at local suppliers. I want
something sturdy enough to withstand wave action (it's a small
freshwater lake, but being on a channel we are subjected to some pretty
inconsiderate wakes), preferably recessed so the kids don't stub their
toes while playing running and diving games, yet still usable in the
late fall when there is often snow and ice on the dock (ice sticks to
galvanised hardware like glue), and, last but not least, rustproof.

The old dock had zinc-plated rings attached with lag-screw eyes. They
held the boats fine (until wood rot set in and they started to pull
out), but the kids were constantly bashing their toes on them and they
rusted. A neighbour has recessed rings which are kid feet-friendly, and
not too bad in fall provided you carry a large screwdriver to prise the
rings up when they are frozen into the recesses, but they are also rusty
- and I'm pretty sure they are actually trapdoor pulls from Home Depot
and were not designed for mooring stresses (Hint: they came with 3/4"
mounting screws).

I've seen some anodised aluminium folding cleats, but they were not
cheap, only available in white (I'd prefer stainless steel), and looked
like they'd be unusable when frozen.

Anyone know where I can obtain recessed stainless steel rings designed
for the task? Or know of a better design given my criteria?


I always vote for cleats on docks because there are days when you're trying
to get a line around SOMETHING as you dock, but the wind is not cooperating,
nobody's there to help and you only have one hand free. Try that with a
ring. If it were me, I'd teach the kids how to look out for the cleats.
Besides, nobody's every died from a stubbed toe.

True - despite the fact their howling sounds like they have suffered a
mortal injury :-)

But, if you insist, you could recess normal cleats. I'm visualizing a way,
but first, two definitions. Rails: The boards which run the length of the
dock. Crosspieces: The other boards - running across the dock. If you
removed a crosspiece or two (whatever's necessary), attached an
appropriately shaped piece (or two) of wood to the inside of each rail, and
shortened the crosspiece(s) in that location, the cleats should sit somewhat
lower than the surrounding surface. To make the resulting notch
finger-friendly (for the person tying the lines), you'd probably want to
angle the edges of the crosspieces as you shorten them.

Thanks - I hadn't thought of that approach, and will certainly consider
it. In my case it would involve routing 'cleat recesses' in the 2x6
boards which surround the edge of the dock and mounting the cleats to
the 8x12 beams underneath. I can see that looking quite attractive - but
the recesses would accumulate ice and snow and likely become unusable in
fall.

As far as strength, don't attach cleats with wood screws. Use the thickest
bolts that'll fit the cleats properly, and back the wood with big washers,
or even a plate of metal. Most home centers sell bars of steel that aren't
so hard to cut. I just saw some at Home Depot. Be sure not to buy toy
cleats - the kind that don't fit any rope a smart person would ever use. If
a cleat won't accept 1/2" rope, it's nonsense.

"Sunny" wrote in message
. ..

but
the recesses would accumulate ice and snow and likely become unusable in
fall.


Well...you can't have everything! Bigger recesses and bigger cleats, easier
to smack the accumulated ice with the heel of your shoe or a blunt object.
By the way, if the ice is that thick, won't the boat be out of the water?
Another idea: How about round metal posts, and learn to tie the appropriate
knots.

Doug Kanter wrote:

"Sunny" wrote in message
. ..


but
the recesses would accumulate ice and snow and likely become unusable in
fall.



Well...you can't have everything! Bigger recesses and bigger cleats, easier
to smack the accumulated ice with the heel of your shoe or a blunt object.
By the way, if the ice is that thick, won't the boat be out of the water?
Another idea: How about round metal posts, and learn to tie the appropriate
knots.

We usually keep one boat in the water until just before freeze-up since
our cottage is water-access only, and given the high rate of flow
through our lake there is often a month or more of cold, snowy weather
before the lake freezes.

I had considered metal posts, but was still concerned about kid
injuries. I'm reasonably proficient at the appropriate knots, but the
same cannot be said for the rest of the family or most of our visitors.

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 20:31:20 -0400, Sunny wrote:

I had considered metal posts, but was still concerned about kid
injuries. I'm reasonably proficient at the appropriate knots, but the
same cannot be said for the rest of the family or most of our visitors.

======================================

That's a real concern. I know a fellow who ended up in the hospital
after falling on a dock post.

On my dock I leave the lines permanently tied, cleating and uncleating
from the boat.

In the Chevy dealership parts department today. There are tie down cleats
for trucks that fit into the stake holes and also can be mounted in the
body. They lay flat when not needed.

"Sunny" wrote in message
. ..


Doug Kanter wrote:

"Sunny" wrote in message
. ..


but
the recesses would accumulate ice and snow and likely become unusable in
fall.



Well...you can't have everything! Bigger recesses and bigger cleats,
easier
to smack the accumulated ice with the heel of your shoe or a blunt
object.
By the way, if the ice is that thick, won't the boat be out of the
water?
Another idea: How about round metal posts, and learn to tie the
appropriate
knots.

We usually keep one boat in the water until just before freeze-up since
our cottage is water-access only, and given the high rate of flow
through our lake there is often a month or more of cold, snowy weather
before the lake freezes.

I had considered metal posts, but was still concerned about kid
injuries. I'm reasonably proficient at the appropriate knots, but the
same cannot be said for the rest of the family or most of our visitors.

"Sunny" wrote in message
. ..


I had considered metal posts, but was still concerned about kid
injuries.

How old are these kids??? I was always very cautious with my son, but at
some point, they have to learn to deal with minor hazards on their own.
They're more likely be attacked by the legs on a coffee table or chair.

What about a 4x4 wooden post? If you polyurethane the bejeezus out of it,
you could avoid using treated wood. You could bevel all the edges to make
them hand-friendly.

I'm reasonably proficient at the appropriate knots, but the
same cannot be said for the rest of the family or most of our visitors.

So, put an eye splice or a bowline at the end of each rope so they only need
to be dropped onto the posts.

If you've got 2 x6 boards which surround the edge of the dock,
couldn't you just mount cleats to those boards, which are in a
vertical orientation? In other words, you'd be mounting the cleats to
the SIDE ("edge") of the dock. They would not be on a walking deck
surface, so no stubbed toes. You'd probably then have to surround
these cleats with buoys or vinyl "bumpers" so that you don't damage
your boat on them, but many people do that anyway and it's not a bad
idea....


Thanks - I hadn't thought of that approach, and will certainly consider
it. In my case it would involve routing 'cleat recesses' in the 2x6
boards which surround the edge of the dock and mounting the cleats to
the 8x12 beams underneath. I can see that looking quite attractive - but
the recesses would accumulate ice and snow and likely become unusable in
fall.

As far as strength, don't attach cleats with wood screws. Use the thickest
bolts that'll fit the cleats properly, and back the wood with big washers,
or even a plate of metal. Most home centers sell bars of steel that aren't
so hard to cut. I just saw some at Home Depot. Be sure not to buy toy
cleats - the kind that don't fit any rope a smart person would ever use. If
a cleat won't accept 1/2" rope, it's nonsense.

brad wrote:

If you've got 2 x6 boards which surround the edge of the dock,
couldn't you just mount cleats to those boards, which are in a
vertical orientation? In other words, you'd be mounting the cleats to
the SIDE ("edge") of the dock. They would not be on a walking deck
surface, so no stubbed toes. You'd probably then have to surround
these cleats with buoys or vinyl "bumpers" so that you don't damage
your boat on them, but many people do that anyway and it's not a bad
idea....

Good suggestion - thanks.

If anyone manages to stub their toes on the new vinyl cleats, I could
easily move them to the dock face.

Thanks - I hadn't thought of that approach, and will certainly consider
it. In my case it would involve routing 'cleat recesses' in the 2x6
boards which surround the edge of the dock and mounting the cleats to
the 8x12 beams underneath. I can see that looking quite attractive - but
the recesses would accumulate ice and snow and likely become unusable in
fall.


As far as strength, don't attach cleats with wood screws. Use the thickest
bolts that'll fit the cleats properly, and back the wood with big washers,
or even a plate of metal. Most home centers sell bars of steel that aren't
so hard to cut. I just saw some at Home Depot. Be sure not to buy toy
cleats - the kind that don't fit any rope a smart person would ever use. If
a cleat won't accept 1/2" rope, it's nonsense.