Cleat / Mooring Ring suggestions?
 

I just spent my summer vacation working my butt off building a new dock
at my Muskoka cottage - the old one only lasted 18 years because I used
pine logs and 2 x 6 spruce, but I expect this one to be around a bit
longer due to the 8 x 12 Douglas Fir beams I lugged into place and the
small fortune spent on cedar decking.

We can't use it to moor the boats yet because I haven't found cleats or
mooring rings which meet my requirements at local suppliers. I want
something sturdy enough to withstand wave action (it's a small
freshwater lake, but being on a channel we are subjected to some pretty
inconsiderate wakes), preferably recessed so the kids don't stub their
toes while playing running and diving games, yet still usable in the
late fall when there is often snow and ice on the dock (ice sticks to
galvanised hardware like glue), and, last but not least, rustproof.

The old dock had zinc-plated rings attached with lag-screw eyes. They
held the boats fine (until wood rot set in and they started to pull
out), but the kids were constantly bashing their toes on them and they
rusted. A neighbour has recessed rings which are kid feet-friendly, and
not too bad in fall provided you carry a large screwdriver to prise the
rings up when they are frozen into the recesses, but they are also rusty
- and I'm pretty sure they are actually trapdoor pulls from Home Depot
and were not designed for mooring stresses (Hint: they came with 3/4"
mounting screws).

I've seen some anodised aluminium folding cleats, but they were not
cheap, only available in white (I'd prefer stainless steel), and looked
like they'd be unusable when frozen.

Anyone know where I can obtain recessed stainless steel rings designed
for the task? Or know of a better design given my criteria?

TIA

Sunny

"Sunny" wrote in message
.. .
I just spent my summer vacation working my butt off building a new dock
at my Muskoka cottage - the old one only lasted 18 years because I used
pine logs and 2 x 6 spruce, but I expect this one to be around a bit
longer due to the 8 x 12 Douglas Fir beams I lugged into place and the
small fortune spent on cedar decking.

We can't use it to moor the boats yet because I haven't found cleats or
mooring rings which meet my requirements at local suppliers. I want
something sturdy enough to withstand wave action (it's a small
freshwater lake, but being on a channel we are subjected to some pretty
inconsiderate wakes), preferably recessed so the kids don't stub their
toes while playing running and diving games, yet still usable in the
late fall when there is often snow and ice on the dock (ice sticks to
galvanised hardware like glue), and, last but not least, rustproof.

The old dock had zinc-plated rings attached with lag-screw eyes. They
held the boats fine (until wood rot set in and they started to pull
out), but the kids were constantly bashing their toes on them and they
rusted. A neighbour has recessed rings which are kid feet-friendly, and
not too bad in fall provided you carry a large screwdriver to prise the
rings up when they are frozen into the recesses, but they are also rusty
- and I'm pretty sure they are actually trapdoor pulls from Home Depot
and were not designed for mooring stresses (Hint: they came with 3/4"
mounting screws).

I've seen some anodised aluminium folding cleats, but they were not
cheap, only available in white (I'd prefer stainless steel), and looked
like they'd be unusable when frozen.

Anyone know where I can obtain recessed stainless steel rings designed
for the task? Or know of a better design given my criteria?

I always vote for cleats on docks because there are days when you're trying
to get a line around SOMETHING as you dock, but the wind is not cooperating,
nobody's there to help and you only have one hand free. Try that with a
ring. If it were me, I'd teach the kids how to look out for the cleats.
Besides, nobody's every died from a stubbed toe.

But, if you insist, you could recess normal cleats. I'm visualizing a way,
but first, two definitions. Rails: The boards which run the length of the
dock. Crosspieces: The other boards - running across the dock. If you
removed a crosspiece or two (whatever's necessary), attached an
appropriately shaped piece (or two) of wood to the inside of each rail, and
shortened the crosspiece(s) in that location, the cleats should sit somewhat
lower than the surrounding surface. To make the resulting notch
finger-friendly (for the person tying the lines), you'd probably want to
angle the edges of the crosspieces as you shorten them.

As far as strength, don't attach cleats with wood screws. Use the thickest
bolts that'll fit the cleats properly, and back the wood with big washers,
or even a plate of metal. Most home centers sell bars of steel that aren't
so hard to cut. I just saw some at Home Depot. Be sure not to buy toy
cleats - the kind that don't fit any rope a smart person would ever use. If
a cleat won't accept 1/2" rope, it's nonsense.

One way to avoid cleats and rings entirely is to bolt a 2x4 along the
edge of the dock using thru bolted spacers every 2 feet or so. The
spacer blocks elevate the 2x4 so that you can tie around it. Easy to
make, harder to describe...

I have done this on the edges of a concrete dock and it's very
effective.

===============================================
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 00:55:26 -0400, Sunny wrote:
I just spent my summer vacation working my butt off building a new dock
at my Muskoka cottage - the old one only lasted 18 years because I used
pine logs and 2 x 6 spruce, but I expect this one to be around a bit
longer due to the 8 x 12 Douglas Fir beams I lugged into place and the
small fortune spent on cedar decking.

We can't use it to moor the boats yet because I haven't found cleats or
mooring rings which meet my requirements at local suppliers. I want
something sturdy enough to withstand wave action (it's a small
freshwater lake, but being on a channel we are subjected to some pretty
inconsiderate wakes), preferably recessed so the kids don't stub their
toes while playing running and diving games, yet still usable in the
late fall when there is often snow and ice on the dock (ice sticks to
galvanised hardware like glue), and, last but not least, rustproof.

The old dock had zinc-plated rings attached with lag-screw eyes. They
held the boats fine (until wood rot set in and they started to pull
out), but the kids were constantly bashing their toes on them and they
rusted. A neighbour has recessed rings which are kid feet-friendly, and
not too bad in fall provided you carry a large screwdriver to prise the
rings up when they are frozen into the recesses, but they are also rusty
- and I'm pretty sure they are actually trapdoor pulls from Home Depot
and were not designed for mooring stresses (Hint: they came with 3/4"
mounting screws).

I've seen some anodised aluminium folding cleats, but they were not
cheap, only available in white (I'd prefer stainless steel), and looked
like they'd be unusable when frozen.

Anyone know where I can obtain recessed stainless steel rings designed
for the task? Or know of a better design given my criteria?

TIA

Sunny

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Sunny" wrote in message
.. .

I just spent my summer vacation working my butt off building a new dock
at my Muskoka cottage - the old one only lasted 18 years because I used
pine logs and 2 x 6 spruce, but I expect this one to be around a bit
longer due to the 8 x 12 Douglas Fir beams I lugged into place and the
small fortune spent on cedar decking.

We can't use it to moor the boats yet because I haven't found cleats or
mooring rings which meet my requirements at local suppliers. I want
something sturdy enough to withstand wave action (it's a small
freshwater lake, but being on a channel we are subjected to some pretty
inconsiderate wakes), preferably recessed so the kids don't stub their
toes while playing running and diving games, yet still usable in the
late fall when there is often snow and ice on the dock (ice sticks to
galvanised hardware like glue), and, last but not least, rustproof.

The old dock had zinc-plated rings attached with lag-screw eyes. They
held the boats fine (until wood rot set in and they started to pull
out), but the kids were constantly bashing their toes on them and they
rusted. A neighbour has recessed rings which are kid feet-friendly, and
not too bad in fall provided you carry a large screwdriver to prise the
rings up when they are frozen into the recesses, but they are also rusty
- and I'm pretty sure they are actually trapdoor pulls from Home Depot
and were not designed for mooring stresses (Hint: they came with 3/4"
mounting screws).

I've seen some anodised aluminium folding cleats, but they were not
cheap, only available in white (I'd prefer stainless steel), and looked
like they'd be unusable when frozen.

Anyone know where I can obtain recessed stainless steel rings designed
for the task? Or know of a better design given my criteria?


I always vote for cleats on docks because there are days when you're trying
to get a line around SOMETHING as you dock, but the wind is not cooperating,
nobody's there to help and you only have one hand free. Try that with a
ring. If it were me, I'd teach the kids how to look out for the cleats.
Besides, nobody's every died from a stubbed toe.

True - despite the fact their howling sounds like they have suffered a
mortal injury :-)

But, if you insist, you could recess normal cleats. I'm visualizing a way,
but first, two definitions. Rails: The boards which run the length of the
dock. Crosspieces: The other boards - running across the dock. If you
removed a crosspiece or two (whatever's necessary), attached an
appropriately shaped piece (or two) of wood to the inside of each rail, and
shortened the crosspiece(s) in that location, the cleats should sit somewhat
lower than the surrounding surface. To make the resulting notch
finger-friendly (for the person tying the lines), you'd probably want to
angle the edges of the crosspieces as you shorten them.

Thanks - I hadn't thought of that approach, and will certainly consider
it. In my case it would involve routing 'cleat recesses' in the 2x6
boards which surround the edge of the dock and mounting the cleats to
the 8x12 beams underneath. I can see that looking quite attractive - but
the recesses would accumulate ice and snow and likely become unusable in
fall.

As far as strength, don't attach cleats with wood screws. Use the thickest
bolts that'll fit the cleats properly, and back the wood with big washers,
or even a plate of metal. Most home centers sell bars of steel that aren't
so hard to cut. I just saw some at Home Depot. Be sure not to buy toy
cleats - the kind that don't fit any rope a smart person would ever use. If
a cleat won't accept 1/2" rope, it's nonsense.

Wayne.B wrote:

One way to avoid cleats and rings entirely is to bolt a 2x4 along the
edge of the dock using thru bolted spacers every 2 feet or so. The
spacer blocks elevate the 2x4 so that you can tie around it. Easy to
make, harder to describe...

I have done this on the edges of a concrete dock and it's very
effective.

Hmmm... very interesting (and economical) idea, but did you mount your
2x4 on the horizontal or vertical surface?

I'm thinking mounting on the horizontal surface would not be very
attractive, while vertical might damage boats if they slam up or down
against it due to wave action - and either way mooring lines might slide
along the 2x4 and allow boats to hit rocks.

This is all a bit difficult to visualize, so I've posted a couple of
pictures - one of the completed dock, and one of the (partially) built
frame so you can see what's underneath for mounting. Beams are 8x12 and
all decking and trim is 6x2:

http://tipperlinne.com/dock

===============================================
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 00:55:26 -0400, Sunny wrote:

I just spent my summer vacation working my butt off building a new dock
at my Muskoka cottage - the old one only lasted 18 years because I used
pine logs and 2 x 6 spruce, but I expect this one to be around a bit
longer due to the 8 x 12 Douglas Fir beams I lugged into place and the
small fortune spent on cedar decking.

We can't use it to moor the boats yet because I haven't found cleats or
mooring rings which meet my requirements at local suppliers. I want
something sturdy enough to withstand wave action (it's a small
freshwater lake, but being on a channel we are subjected to some pretty
inconsiderate wakes), preferably recessed so the kids don't stub their
toes while playing running and diving games, yet still usable in the
late fall when there is often snow and ice on the dock (ice sticks to
galvanised hardware like glue), and, last but not least, rustproof.

The old dock had zinc-plated rings attached with lag-screw eyes. They
held the boats fine (until wood rot set in and they started to pull
out), but the kids were constantly bashing their toes on them and they
rusted. A neighbour has recessed rings which are kid feet-friendly, and
not too bad in fall provided you carry a large screwdriver to prise the
rings up when they are frozen into the recesses, but they are also rusty
- and I'm pretty sure they are actually trapdoor pulls from Home Depot
and were not designed for mooring stresses (Hint: they came with 3/4"
mounting screws).

I've seen some anodised aluminium folding cleats, but they were not
cheap, only available in white (I'd prefer stainless steel), and looked
like they'd be unusable when frozen.

Anyone know where I can obtain recessed stainless steel rings designed
for the task? Or know of a better design given my criteria?

TIA

Sunny

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 20:44:58 -0400, Sunny wrote:
Hmmm... very interesting (and economical) idea, but did you mount your
2x4 on the horizontal or vertical surface?

I'm thinking mounting on the horizontal surface would not be very
attractive, while vertical might damage boats if they slam up or down
against it due to wave action - and either way mooring lines might slide
along the 2x4 and allow boats to hit rocks.

This is all a bit difficult to visualize, so I've posted a couple of
pictures - one of the completed dock, and one of the (partially) built
frame so you can see what's underneath for mounting. Beams are 8x12 and
all decking and trim is 6x2:

http://tipperlinne.com/dock

===================================

Great looking dock (and property). You can mount the 2x4s either
vertically on the front edge of the dock, or horizontally on the top
edge. Either way it's best to counterbore/recess the washer and bolt
assembly to avoid protruding hardware. My 2x4s are mounted
horizontally on the top edge of the dock and appearance is not really
an issue. Vertical should work OK also as long as you throughbolt
with a backing washer. My 2x4s are lagged into the concrete with zinc
plugs. Different docks, different fasteners. Line slippage is a
minor issue since the spacer blocks will catch it. If you tie the
line next to a spacer block, and oriented with the direction of
strain, there will be no slippage at all. It is an economical
approach compared to stainless or bronze cleats, and you have more
flexibility with positioning your lines since the whole edge of the
dock essentially becomes one large cleat.

Wayne.B wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 20:44:58 -0400, Sunny wrote:

Hmmm... very interesting (and economical) idea, but did you mount your
2x4 on the horizontal or vertical surface?

I'm thinking mounting on the horizontal surface would not be very
attractive, while vertical might damage boats if they slam up or down
against it due to wave action - and either way mooring lines might slide
along the 2x4 and allow boats to hit rocks.

This is all a bit difficult to visualize, so I've posted a couple of
pictures - one of the completed dock, and one of the (partially) built
frame so you can see what's underneath for mounting. Beams are 8x12 and
all decking and trim is 6x2:

http://tipperlinne.com/dock


===================================

Great looking dock (and property). You can mount the 2x4s either
vertically on the front edge of the dock, or horizontally on the top
edge. Either way it's best to counterbore/recess the washer and bolt
assembly to avoid protruding hardware. My 2x4s are mounted
horizontally on the top edge of the dock and appearance is not really
an issue. Vertical should work OK also as long as you throughbolt
with a backing washer. My 2x4s are lagged into the concrete with zinc
plugs. Different docks, different fasteners. Line slippage is a
minor issue since the spacer blocks will catch it. If you tie the
line next to a spacer block, and oriented with the direction of
strain, there will be no slippage at all. It is an economical
approach compared to stainless or bronze cleats, and you have more
flexibility with positioning your lines since the whole edge of the
dock essentially becomes one large cleat.

Thanks - the positive feedback is appreciated given how hard I worked to
build that dock!

The more I think about this approach, the more I want to try it to see
how well it works - another advantage that comes to mind is the "cleat
rail" could also be used as a grab handle and step for kids pulling
themselves out of the water onto the dock.

I'm thinking I'll rout all 4 edges of the 2x4 with a 3/4" round-over
bit, and mount it on the vertical face of the dock using 8"x3/8 lag
screws set into the gap between the two face boards with short lengths
of 3/4" galvanised steel pipe as spacers - I could even cut and glue
wood plugs to cover the recessed lag screw heads and improve appearance.

I can do this using tools and materials already on-site, but if it
doesn't work well it could be removed and the mounting holes plugged so
all would be as before the experiment, on the other hand if lag screws
prove inadequate they could be replaced with long bolts right through
the beams for permanence.

Unless someone comes up with a better idea (or a good reason it won't
work), I think I'll try it this weekend :-)

Thanks again,

Sunny

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 23:53:33 -0400, Sunny wrote:

I'm thinking I'll rout all 4 edges of the 2x4 with a 3/4" round-over
bit, and mount it on the vertical face of the dock using 8"x3/8 lag
screws set into the gap between the two face boards with short lengths
of 3/4" galvanised steel pipe as spacers

=========================================

That's an interesting variation. I'm concerned that the 2x4 may have
a tendency to wobble however unless you use fairly large diameter
pipe. My spacers are 2x4 pieces cut to about 4 inch lengths.

"Sunny" wrote in message
. ..

but
the recesses would accumulate ice and snow and likely become unusable in
fall.


Well...you can't have everything! Bigger recesses and bigger cleats, easier
to smack the accumulated ice with the heel of your shoe or a blunt object.
By the way, if the ice is that thick, won't the boat be out of the water?
Another idea: How about round metal posts, and learn to tie the appropriate
knots.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message news:xIJWc.2232
I always vote for cleats on docks because there are days when you're trying
to get a line around SOMETHING as you dock, but the wind is not cooperating,
nobody's there to help and you only have one hand free. Try that with a
ring. If it were me, I'd teach the kids how to look out for the cleats.
Besides, nobody's every died from a stubbed toe.

But, if you insist, you could recess normal cleats.

Newer Triton bass boats have recessed cleats, kind of what you are
getting at here. the hull about the cleat has a recessed area that the
cleat sits in, and the top of the cleat is at the same elevation as
the top of the gunwale. The outside then has a notch in it about 2
1/2" in width