Sunny wrote:


Harry Krause wrote:
Doug Kanter wrote:


If you ever replace the nylon cleats and want to entertain the idea of
metal, try West Marine. I bought some stainless steel ones a few years back.
All edges are beautifully smoothed, and they still look as good as the day I
bought them.

"Sunny" wrote in message
m...


Sunny wrote:

I just spent my summer vacation working my butt off building a new dock
at my Muskoka cottage - the old one only lasted 18 years because I used
pine logs and 2 x 6 spruce, but I expect this one to be around a bit
longer due to the 8 x 12 Douglas Fir beams I lugged into place and the
small fortune spent on cedar decking.

We can't use it to moor the boats yet because I haven't found cleats or
mooring rings which meet my requirements at local suppliers. I want
something sturdy enough to withstand wave action (it's a small
freshwater lake, but being on a channel we are subjected to some pretty
inconsiderate wakes), preferably recessed so the kids don't stub their
toes while playing running and diving games, yet still usable in the
late fall when there is often snow and ice on the dock (ice sticks to
galvanised hardware like glue), and, last but not least, rustproof.

The old dock had zinc-plated rings attached with lag-screw eyes. They
held the boats fine (until wood rot set in and they started to pull
out), but the kids were constantly bashing their toes on them and they
rusted. A neighbour has recessed rings which are kid feet-friendly, and
not too bad in fall provided you carry a large screwdriver to prise the
rings up when they are frozen into the recesses, but they are also rusty
- and I'm pretty sure they are actually trapdoor pulls from Home Depot
and were not designed for mooring stresses (Hint: they came with 3/4"
mounting screws).

I've seen some anodised aluminium folding cleats, but they were not
cheap, only available in white (I'd prefer stainless steel), and looked
like they'd be unusable when frozen.

Anyone know where I can obtain recessed stainless steel rings designed
for the task? Or know of a better design given my criteria?

TIA

Sunny

Many thanks for all the helpful suggestions.

In the end I found a supplier who stocked 6" black nylon cleats. They
have nicely rounded ends (hard to see how kids could injure themselves),
snow and ice don't adhere very well to nylon, and they seem fairly solid
when mounted with two #14 x 4" stainless steel screws (which go right
through the cedar decking and just over an inch into the fir beams).

This solution was cheap in terms of both financial outlay and
installation time, and I'm optimistic it will prove satisfactory over
the long term.

Pity the same can't be said for my efforts to preserve and protect the
decking - it was nicely dry after 3 days of hot weather, with a 48 hour
forecast of 'a mix of sun and cloud', so I applied a coat of water seal
- then it poured rain for 16 hours straight :-(

Sunny



Interesting he picked cedar to deck his deck. It's a pretty wood, and
easy to work, and, of course, it resists rot, but I wonder if it is
strong enough or abrasive-resistant enough for a dock. For the premium
price you pay for cedar, though, you can go with one of the new
"plastic" wood planks, as many of the dockowners around here are doing.
These new products are maintenance-free, don't rot, and result UV, too.

We did seriously consider several "plastic" and sawdust-plastic
composite materials available in Canada, but the boss rejected all of
them as unattractive. Also, the total cost worked out to roughly 15%
more than cedar, largely because they required 16" OC framing whereas
24" OC is the standard here for 2x6 cedar decks and docks.

I share your concerns about cedar's strength and abrasion resistance, so
used Douglas Fir and treated spruce for the frame, and designed the dock
such that the decking will not come in contact with boats. The face
boards and deck trim will take the brunt, and are easily replaced if
necessary.

Sunny


Indeed, the plastic wood is not cheap. Good luck with your dock.

--
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
And don't forget to pay your taxes so the rich don't have to!

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 00:14:15 -0400, Sunny wrote:
In the end I found a supplier who stocked 6" black nylon cleats. They
have nicely rounded ends (hard to see how kids could injure themselves),
snow and ice don't adhere very well to nylon, and they seem fairly solid
when mounted with two #14 x 4" stainless steel screws (which go right
through the cedar decking and just over an inch into the fir beams).
================================================== ==

How heavy is your boat, and how much wind and wave action is it
exposed to?

Wayne.B wrote:

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 00:14:15 -0400, Sunny wrote:

In the end I found a supplier who stocked 6" black nylon cleats. They
have nicely rounded ends (hard to see how kids could injure themselves),
snow and ice don't adhere very well to nylon, and they seem fairly solid
when mounted with two #14 x 4" stainless steel screws (which go right
through the cedar decking and just over an inch into the fir beams).

================================================== ==

How heavy is your boat, and how much wind and wave action is it
exposed to?

We have too many boats, all small. The heaviest is a 16' aluminum
Starcraft with a 120HP outboard, I'd guess no more than 3000lbs.

The lake is only a mile wide at our location, and we rarely experience
onshore winds. Heaviest wave action is due to inconsiderate wakes from
similar craft to ours. I doubt the cleat screws will break - is that
your concern?

Sunny

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:44:02 -0400, Sunny wrote:

I doubt the cleat screws will break - is that
your concern?

=========================================

That, and working loose from not being thru bolted. The shock loads
imposed by a heavy boat bouncing around are considerable - well into
thousands of pounds. Would you be comfortable if your heaviest boat
dropped vertically by a foor or two and was caught by the cleats?
That sort of loading is fairly routine in rough water.

Sunny wrote:

This is all a bit difficult to visualize, so I've posted a couple of
pictures - one of the completed dock, and one of the (partially) built
frame so you can see what's underneath for mounting. Beams are 8x12 and
all decking and trim is 6x2:

Nice work. How about these: http://www.tempcleat.com/ ?

I don't think I'd leave a boat tied up that way over night, but it
should be fine during the day.

dave

--
-----
news_bucket e-mail address goes to a blackhole. Sorry. Send e-mail to
"respond" at the same domain.
http://www.tempcleat.com/

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:02:49 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

Would you be comfortable if your heaviest boat
dropped vertically by a foor or two and was caught by the cleats?
That sort of loading is fairly routine in rough water.

Make that "a foot or two" .....

If you've got 2 x6 boards which surround the edge of the dock,
couldn't you just mount cleats to those boards, which are in a
vertical orientation? In other words, you'd be mounting the cleats to
the SIDE ("edge") of the dock. They would not be on a walking deck
surface, so no stubbed toes. You'd probably then have to surround
these cleats with buoys or vinyl "bumpers" so that you don't damage
your boat on them, but many people do that anyway and it's not a bad
idea....


Thanks - I hadn't thought of that approach, and will certainly consider
it. In my case it would involve routing 'cleat recesses' in the 2x6
boards which surround the edge of the dock and mounting the cleats to
the 8x12 beams underneath. I can see that looking quite attractive - but
the recesses would accumulate ice and snow and likely become unusable in
fall.

As far as strength, don't attach cleats with wood screws. Use the thickest
bolts that'll fit the cleats properly, and back the wood with big washers,
or even a plate of metal. Most home centers sell bars of steel that aren't
so hard to cut. I just saw some at Home Depot. Be sure not to buy toy
cleats - the kind that don't fit any rope a smart person would ever use. If
a cleat won't accept 1/2" rope, it's nonsense.

Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:02:49 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:


Would you be comfortable if your heaviest boat
dropped vertically by a foor or two and was caught by the cleats?
That sort of loading is fairly routine in rough water.


Make that "a foot or two" .....

The previous dock had mooring rings secured with one 3/8 x 1 1/4" lag
screw, i.e. they didn't even fully penetrate the decking and weren't a
lot thicker than the #14 screws. We didn't have any problems with boats
breaking from their moorings, but I will be keeping a close eye on the
new cleats for the first few months in case they aren't as secure as I
think they are.

Sunny

Calif Bill wrote:

In the Chevy dealership parts department today. There are tie down cleats
for trucks that fit into the stake holes and also can be mounted in the
body. They lay flat when not needed.

Thanks for the suggestion.

The only folding tie downs at my local Chevy dealer were open hooks -
fine if ropes are tied tightly as when securing a load, but not suitable
for mooring boats where ropes have slack.

"Sunny" wrote in message
. ..


Doug Kanter wrote:


"Sunny" wrote in message
om...



but
the recesses would accumulate ice and snow and likely become unusable in
fall.



Well...you can't have everything! Bigger recesses and bigger cleats,

easier

to smack the accumulated ice with the heel of your shoe or a blunt

object.

By the way, if the ice is that thick, won't the boat be out of the

water?

Another idea: How about round metal posts, and learn to tie the

appropriate

knots.

We usually keep one boat in the water until just before freeze-up since
our cottage is water-access only, and given the high rate of flow
through our lake there is often a month or more of cold, snowy weather
before the lake freezes.

I had considered metal posts, but was still concerned about kid
injuries. I'm reasonably proficient at the appropriate knots, but the
same cannot be said for the rest of the family or most of our visitors.

brad wrote:

If you've got 2 x6 boards which surround the edge of the dock,
couldn't you just mount cleats to those boards, which are in a
vertical orientation? In other words, you'd be mounting the cleats to
the SIDE ("edge") of the dock. They would not be on a walking deck
surface, so no stubbed toes. You'd probably then have to surround
these cleats with buoys or vinyl "bumpers" so that you don't damage
your boat on them, but many people do that anyway and it's not a bad
idea....

Good suggestion - thanks.

If anyone manages to stub their toes on the new vinyl cleats, I could
easily move them to the dock face.

Thanks - I hadn't thought of that approach, and will certainly consider
it. In my case it would involve routing 'cleat recesses' in the 2x6
boards which surround the edge of the dock and mounting the cleats to
the 8x12 beams underneath. I can see that looking quite attractive - but
the recesses would accumulate ice and snow and likely become unusable in
fall.


As far as strength, don't attach cleats with wood screws. Use the thickest
bolts that'll fit the cleats properly, and back the wood with big washers,
or even a plate of metal. Most home centers sell bars of steel that aren't
so hard to cut. I just saw some at Home Depot. Be sure not to buy toy
cleats - the kind that don't fit any rope a smart person would ever use. If
a cleat won't accept 1/2" rope, it's nonsense.