Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 23:53:33 -0400, Sunny wrote:


I'm thinking I'll rout all 4 edges of the 2x4 with a 3/4" round-over
bit, and mount it on the vertical face of the dock using 8"x3/8 lag
screws set into the gap between the two face boards with short lengths
of 3/4" galvanised steel pipe as spacers


=========================================

That's an interesting variation. I'm concerned that the 2x4 may have
a tendency to wobble however unless you use fairly large diameter
pipe. My spacers are 2x4 pieces cut to about 4 inch lengths.


I agree, and was planning to use large diameter washers at either end of
the spacer pipes. Tack-welding the washers to the pipes is probably a
good idea too.

Doug Kanter wrote:

"Sunny" wrote in message
. ..


but
the recesses would accumulate ice and snow and likely become unusable in
fall.



Well...you can't have everything! Bigger recesses and bigger cleats, easier
to smack the accumulated ice with the heel of your shoe or a blunt object.
By the way, if the ice is that thick, won't the boat be out of the water?
Another idea: How about round metal posts, and learn to tie the appropriate
knots.

We usually keep one boat in the water until just before freeze-up since
our cottage is water-access only, and given the high rate of flow
through our lake there is often a month or more of cold, snowy weather
before the lake freezes.

I had considered metal posts, but was still concerned about kid
injuries. I'm reasonably proficient at the appropriate knots, but the
same cannot be said for the rest of the family or most of our visitors.

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 20:31:20 -0400, Sunny wrote:

I had considered metal posts, but was still concerned about kid
injuries. I'm reasonably proficient at the appropriate knots, but the
same cannot be said for the rest of the family or most of our visitors.

======================================

That's a real concern. I know a fellow who ended up in the hospital
after falling on a dock post.

On my dock I leave the lines permanently tied, cleating and uncleating
from the boat.

with short lengths
of 3/4" galvanised steel pipe as spacers


I agree, and was planning to use large diameter washers at either end of
the spacer pipes. Tack-welding the washers to the pipes is probably a
good idea too.

Pipe/washers might rust, especially if welded. What about slices of heavy
PVC pipe...perhaps held in place by screws inside the circumference and then
furthur clamping by the bolted on "rail"? You might even be able to find
some kind of coupler or fitting that would be the right configuration.

In the Chevy dealership parts department today. There are tie down cleats
for trucks that fit into the stake holes and also can be mounted in the
body. They lay flat when not needed.

"Sunny" wrote in message
. ..


Doug Kanter wrote:

"Sunny" wrote in message
. ..


but
the recesses would accumulate ice and snow and likely become unusable in
fall.



Well...you can't have everything! Bigger recesses and bigger cleats,
easier
to smack the accumulated ice with the heel of your shoe or a blunt
object.
By the way, if the ice is that thick, won't the boat be out of the
water?
Another idea: How about round metal posts, and learn to tie the
appropriate
knots.

We usually keep one boat in the water until just before freeze-up since
our cottage is water-access only, and given the high rate of flow
through our lake there is often a month or more of cold, snowy weather
before the lake freezes.

I had considered metal posts, but was still concerned about kid
injuries. I'm reasonably proficient at the appropriate knots, but the
same cannot be said for the rest of the family or most of our visitors.

"Sunny" wrote in message
. ..


I had considered metal posts, but was still concerned about kid
injuries.

How old are these kids??? I was always very cautious with my son, but at
some point, they have to learn to deal with minor hazards on their own.
They're more likely be attacked by the legs on a coffee table or chair.

What about a 4x4 wooden post? If you polyurethane the bejeezus out of it,
you could avoid using treated wood. You could bevel all the edges to make
them hand-friendly.

I'm reasonably proficient at the appropriate knots, but the
same cannot be said for the rest of the family or most of our visitors.

So, put an eye splice or a bowline at the end of each rope so they only need
to be dropped onto the posts.

Sunny wrote:
I just spent my summer vacation working my butt off building a new dock
at my Muskoka cottage - the old one only lasted 18 years because I used
pine logs and 2 x 6 spruce, but I expect this one to be around a bit
longer due to the 8 x 12 Douglas Fir beams I lugged into place and the
small fortune spent on cedar decking.

We can't use it to moor the boats yet because I haven't found cleats or
mooring rings which meet my requirements at local suppliers. I want
something sturdy enough to withstand wave action (it's a small
freshwater lake, but being on a channel we are subjected to some pretty
inconsiderate wakes), preferably recessed so the kids don't stub their
toes while playing running and diving games, yet still usable in the
late fall when there is often snow and ice on the dock (ice sticks to
galvanised hardware like glue), and, last but not least, rustproof.

The old dock had zinc-plated rings attached with lag-screw eyes. They
held the boats fine (until wood rot set in and they started to pull
out), but the kids were constantly bashing their toes on them and they
rusted. A neighbour has recessed rings which are kid feet-friendly, and
not too bad in fall provided you carry a large screwdriver to prise the
rings up when they are frozen into the recesses, but they are also rusty
- and I'm pretty sure they are actually trapdoor pulls from Home Depot
and were not designed for mooring stresses (Hint: they came with 3/4"
mounting screws).

I've seen some anodised aluminium folding cleats, but they were not
cheap, only available in white (I'd prefer stainless steel), and looked
like they'd be unusable when frozen.

Anyone know where I can obtain recessed stainless steel rings designed
for the task? Or know of a better design given my criteria?

TIA

Sunny

Many thanks for all the helpful suggestions.

In the end I found a supplier who stocked 6" black nylon cleats. They
have nicely rounded ends (hard to see how kids could injure themselves),
snow and ice don't adhere very well to nylon, and they seem fairly solid
when mounted with two #14 x 4" stainless steel screws (which go right
through the cedar decking and just over an inch into the fir beams).

This solution was cheap in terms of both financial outlay and
installation time, and I'm optimistic it will prove satisfactory over
the long term.

Pity the same can't be said for my efforts to preserve and protect the
decking - it was nicely dry after 3 days of hot weather, with a 48 hour
forecast of 'a mix of sun and cloud', so I applied a coat of water seal
- then it poured rain for 16 hours straight :-(

Sunny

If you ever replace the nylon cleats and want to entertain the idea of
metal, try West Marine. I bought some stainless steel ones a few years back.
All edges are beautifully smoothed, and they still look as good as the day I
bought them.

"Sunny" wrote in message
.. .


Sunny wrote:
I just spent my summer vacation working my butt off building a new dock
at my Muskoka cottage - the old one only lasted 18 years because I used
pine logs and 2 x 6 spruce, but I expect this one to be around a bit
longer due to the 8 x 12 Douglas Fir beams I lugged into place and the
small fortune spent on cedar decking.

We can't use it to moor the boats yet because I haven't found cleats or
mooring rings which meet my requirements at local suppliers. I want
something sturdy enough to withstand wave action (it's a small
freshwater lake, but being on a channel we are subjected to some pretty
inconsiderate wakes), preferably recessed so the kids don't stub their
toes while playing running and diving games, yet still usable in the
late fall when there is often snow and ice on the dock (ice sticks to
galvanised hardware like glue), and, last but not least, rustproof.

The old dock had zinc-plated rings attached with lag-screw eyes. They
held the boats fine (until wood rot set in and they started to pull
out), but the kids were constantly bashing their toes on them and they
rusted. A neighbour has recessed rings which are kid feet-friendly, and
not too bad in fall provided you carry a large screwdriver to prise the
rings up when they are frozen into the recesses, but they are also rusty
- and I'm pretty sure they are actually trapdoor pulls from Home Depot
and were not designed for mooring stresses (Hint: they came with 3/4"
mounting screws).

I've seen some anodised aluminium folding cleats, but they were not
cheap, only available in white (I'd prefer stainless steel), and looked
like they'd be unusable when frozen.

Anyone know where I can obtain recessed stainless steel rings designed
for the task? Or know of a better design given my criteria?

TIA

Sunny

Many thanks for all the helpful suggestions.

In the end I found a supplier who stocked 6" black nylon cleats. They
have nicely rounded ends (hard to see how kids could injure themselves),
snow and ice don't adhere very well to nylon, and they seem fairly solid
when mounted with two #14 x 4" stainless steel screws (which go right
through the cedar decking and just over an inch into the fir beams).

This solution was cheap in terms of both financial outlay and
installation time, and I'm optimistic it will prove satisfactory over
the long term.

Pity the same can't be said for my efforts to preserve and protect the
decking - it was nicely dry after 3 days of hot weather, with a 48 hour
forecast of 'a mix of sun and cloud', so I applied a coat of water seal
- then it poured rain for 16 hours straight :-(

Sunny

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...


Interesting he picked cedar to deck his deck. It's a pretty wood, and
easy to work, and, of course, it resists rot, but I wonder if it is
strong enough or abrasive-resistant enough for a dock. For the premium
price you pay for cedar, though, you can go with one of the new
"plastic" wood planks, as many of the dockowners around here are doing.
These new products are maintenance-free, don't rot, and result UV, too.

Some of those products look good, too. A neighbor of mine just did a deck
that way. Very attractive. And, no treated lumber concerns with the kiddies
playing on it.

On the other hand, cedar smells good, although I assume the sealants you
apply put an end to that.

Harry Krause wrote:
Doug Kanter wrote:


If you ever replace the nylon cleats and want to entertain the idea of
metal, try West Marine. I bought some stainless steel ones a few years back.
All edges are beautifully smoothed, and they still look as good as the day I
bought them.

"Sunny" wrote in message
...


Sunny wrote:

I just spent my summer vacation working my butt off building a new dock
at my Muskoka cottage - the old one only lasted 18 years because I used
pine logs and 2 x 6 spruce, but I expect this one to be around a bit
longer due to the 8 x 12 Douglas Fir beams I lugged into place and the
small fortune spent on cedar decking.

We can't use it to moor the boats yet because I haven't found cleats or
mooring rings which meet my requirements at local suppliers. I want
something sturdy enough to withstand wave action (it's a small
freshwater lake, but being on a channel we are subjected to some pretty
inconsiderate wakes), preferably recessed so the kids don't stub their
toes while playing running and diving games, yet still usable in the
late fall when there is often snow and ice on the dock (ice sticks to
galvanised hardware like glue), and, last but not least, rustproof.

The old dock had zinc-plated rings attached with lag-screw eyes. They
held the boats fine (until wood rot set in and they started to pull
out), but the kids were constantly bashing their toes on them and they
rusted. A neighbour has recessed rings which are kid feet-friendly, and
not too bad in fall provided you carry a large screwdriver to prise the
rings up when they are frozen into the recesses, but they are also rusty
- and I'm pretty sure they are actually trapdoor pulls from Home Depot
and were not designed for mooring stresses (Hint: they came with 3/4"
mounting screws).

I've seen some anodised aluminium folding cleats, but they were not
cheap, only available in white (I'd prefer stainless steel), and looked
like they'd be unusable when frozen.

Anyone know where I can obtain recessed stainless steel rings designed
for the task? Or know of a better design given my criteria?

TIA

Sunny

Many thanks for all the helpful suggestions.

In the end I found a supplier who stocked 6" black nylon cleats. They
have nicely rounded ends (hard to see how kids could injure themselves),
snow and ice don't adhere very well to nylon, and they seem fairly solid
when mounted with two #14 x 4" stainless steel screws (which go right
through the cedar decking and just over an inch into the fir beams).

This solution was cheap in terms of both financial outlay and
installation time, and I'm optimistic it will prove satisfactory over
the long term.

Pity the same can't be said for my efforts to preserve and protect the
decking - it was nicely dry after 3 days of hot weather, with a 48 hour
forecast of 'a mix of sun and cloud', so I applied a coat of water seal
- then it poured rain for 16 hours straight :-(

Sunny



Interesting he picked cedar to deck his deck. It's a pretty wood, and
easy to work, and, of course, it resists rot, but I wonder if it is
strong enough or abrasive-resistant enough for a dock. For the premium
price you pay for cedar, though, you can go with one of the new
"plastic" wood planks, as many of the dockowners around here are doing.
These new products are maintenance-free, don't rot, and result UV, too.

We did seriously consider several "plastic" and sawdust-plastic
composite materials available in Canada, but the boss rejected all of
them as unattractive. Also, the total cost worked out to roughly 15%
more than cedar, largely because they required 16" OC framing whereas
24" OC is the standard here for 2x6 cedar decks and docks.

I share your concerns about cedar's strength and abrasion resistance, so
used Douglas Fir and treated spruce for the frame, and designed the dock
such that the decking will not come in contact with boats. The face
boards and deck trim will take the brunt, and are easily replaced if
necessary.

Sunny