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Old October 9th 20, 12:46 AM posted to rec.boats
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Default Back for the holiday season

wrote:
On Thu, 8 Oct 2020 13:05:23 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/8/20 12:59 PM, Bill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/8/20 8:08 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 8 Oct 2020 06:48:19 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/7/20 11:01 PM,
wrote:
On Wed, 7 Oct 2020 20:08:24 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/7/20 5:42 PM,
wrote:
On Wed, 7 Oct 2020 10:21:04 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/7/20 9:54 AM,
wrote:
On Wed, 7 Oct 2020 05:15:39 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/6/20 9:20 PM,
wrote:
On Tue, 6 Oct 2020 19:02:34 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/6/20 5:51 PM,
wrote:
On Tue, 6 Oct 2020 14:00:50 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/6/20 1:50 PM,
wrote:
On Tue, 6 Oct 2020 12:25:12 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/6/20 12:11 PM,
wrote:
On Tue, 6 Oct 2020 06:50:46 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/5/20 11:36 PM,
wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 13:28:51 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

Statehood for the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico!

DC should just be absorbed back into Maryland like the missing part of
the diamond went to Virginia.
Just carve out the federal triangle to fulfill the constitutional
requirement for a federal district. (Art 1 Sec 8 (17))
It used to be that Maryland didn't want them but now the slums are
creeping over the DC line into PG and near in Montgomery anyway. A lot
of money has moved back into DC. Montgomery would certainly like to
take everything West of the park. PG would be the tossup. North East
seems to be Gentrifying and it was always fairly nice, but "Souf ese",
not so much. (When my Ex had to decide which house to sell, the one in
Clinton or the one she grew up in on So Dakota ave, the S.D. ave house
was worth more)
Puerto Rico is a whole different thing. I am not sure enough Senators
would ratify that to make it happen. That is just a black hole for
federal dollars and making it a state will not change that.
The population there seems to vacillate back and forth every decade or
two about whether they want to be a state, stay a territory or they
want out completely.
In 67 it was an overwhelming No vote for statehood. In 1998 it was
only 46% who wanted statehood, the rest wanted something else. In
2012 61% wanted it and in 2017 77% of the people did not care enough
to even vote on it.

To be pragmatic, I am not sure what is in it for the US. We don't need
that as a refueling spot or forward base into the South Atlantic
anymore and they really hate us using the area around there for
military exercises.


It's a matter of what is in it for the U.S. citizens who live in D.C.
and Puerto Rico. D.C. has more citizens than what, four U.S. states, and
PR would rank about 30th in population. All basically disenfranchised.


I already said, DC could fairly easily absorbed into Maryland. Then
they would raise the power of Maryland and be "franchised".

I also do not feel the people of PR are necessarily entitled to be a
state. How about Guam and Samoa? We actually have more national
(military) interest there.


What's wrong with DC statehood? The possibility of two Democratic U.S.
Senators?
I understand that is your incentive but it makes more sense to just
absorb them into Maryland. We are still constitutionally required to
have a federal district tho. Once you separate out the district from
your new state, it is questionable that it actually has ability to
fund itself.

And when did national military interest become the criteria
for statehood?
It was the reason why we ended up with Puerto Rico in the first place
after the Spanish American War. Virtually all of our territories were
taken in a war and kept for strategic reasons.

There are 3+ million disenfranchised U.S. citizens in PR.

... and the last time they were given the chance to vote on a
referendum, 2.3 million of them didn't care enough to show up. I
understand you want to add 2 Senators and some EC votes but that is
not a valid reason to add this liability to the US tax payers. There
is actually no guarantee that PR would be a blue state anyway. Latino
Catholics tend to be more conservative than you would like.


Sorry, but I don't accept your posit that a federal district cannot be
within a state.

The federal district is a separate entity under control of the federal
government. Art 1 Sec 8 (17). It was ceded by the state, in this case
Maryland. The Virginia part was returned to them before the Civil War
and some of the rest could easily be returned to Maryland, maintaining
the federal district. There is no need to make a 55 square mile state
to give those people representation.


Nor do I accept your Spanish-American War rationale.

Do you deny it was a spoil of that war? Our main interest there was
military, just like Guam, Cuba and the Philippine Islands. We kept
Guam because of it's military value. We let the Philippines and all
but a small base on Cuba go. We could let Puerto Rico go too, there is
no compelling reason for the US to keep them or to make them a state.
The democrats only want this because they assume they would all be
democrats and because it would water down the power of other red
states. As I said, this will be DOA in the senate. It is still unclear
whether the Puerto Ricans even want it.


There's nothing to prevent the federal district in the city to pay the
new state what is needed to make it self-sustaining. The new state of
Columbia should have two full-fledged U.S. Senators and one full-fledged
U.S. Representative.

As for PR, a serious move in the Senate to grant it statehood would take
place after the Repubs lose control of it.

I understand this is the lefties dream but I think we are farther from
it than a few Senate seats away.


Congress has the power to grant statehood and the POTUS has the power to
sign the Bill approving it. The District could become a state in Biden's
first term if the Dems take the Senate. PR could be granted statehood
during the first term of President Harris.

One senator can hold up the vote and 41 can stop the bill cold. I also
think if people actually understand the ramifications of statehood for
either of them they would say no.
I understand this is just a way democrats think they can increase
their power but I would not be so sure about Puerto Rico. There seem
to be plenty of Catholics there who would toss Roe and that seems to
be your litmus test..


Gee, what's the ramification, other than adjusting the flag? Good
business for those Chinese flag manufacturers, right? Wait, you want a
religious test for statehood? Heh heh.

First is the house members would get shuffled, If PR and DC gets reps,
somebody loses theirs. The total number is fixed at 435. DC might
actually end up getting less federal money as a state. Stuff like
that.


No worries.

You still haven't told me what the compelling interest is for the
average US citizen that would justify reducing their influence in
congress.


You could say the same thing about almost any state admitted to the
union. Kind of a specious argument. The call for it is to extend full
citizenship rights to American citizens who are not at the moment
represented properly in Congress, not to "pay off" existing states.

That is not represented by fact. The continental (lower 48) was simply
geography and the justification for Alaska and Hawaii was more than a
little influenced by their strategic location. When PR was
strategically important, they didn't want statehood, they wanted
independence. Now that they have become a welfare state, some of them
want statehood but far from all. Again, what is in it for us?

DC is just ridiculous. The constitution defined the 10x10 mile diamond
as the maximum size for a federal district. The US gave back the part
south of the Potomac to Virginia and there is no reason why they
couldn't simply give back the parts unnecessary for operating the
government to Maryland.


I doubt the citizens of DC want to be Virginians or Marylanders. You
just want to avoid a couple more Democratic Party pols.


A 100 square mile state?


It's the population that matters, not the geography. D.C. has more
population than several states.


If that was the only criteria New York City should be a state. It is
certainly not like most of New York. Without New York City, New York
state might be red.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...2016.svg.pn g


And how much tax to they generate? Not income tax, as that income is just
a redistribution of the 50 states taxes.


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