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Default Libertarians demand...
On 4/13/2020 7:16 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 13:08:26 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/13/20 12:53 PM, Bill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
...Libertarians demand medical researchers delay coronavirus vaccine
until they can assure dimwitted Americans it causes autism.


Harry, you have gone over the cliff.



Some prominent libertarians are vociferous anti-vaxxers and of those,
some claim stupidly that the vaccines cause autism.

There are also some vociferous liberal democrats who are very
anti-vax. That doesn't mean everyone is. The Libertarians I have heard
were not against vaccinations, only government mandated vaccination.
The position is not much different than the stance on abortion. It is
none of the government's business.



Actually Greg, it is.

Most are governed by state immunization laws but the Surgeon General
can require them under certain circumstances:

Under PHSA Section 361, the US Surgeon General, with approval from the
HHS secretary, is “authorized to make and enforce such regulations as in
his judgment are necessary to prevent the introduction, transmission, or
spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the States
or possessions, or from one State or possession into any other State or
possession.”

However, PHSA Section 361 forbids any regulation that supersedes state law.

There are exceptions to both state and federal requirements. Depends on
the circumstances.



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Default Libertarians demand...
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 19:37:04 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/13/2020 7:16 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 13:08:26 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/13/20 12:53 PM, Bill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
...Libertarians demand medical researchers delay coronavirus vaccine
until they can assure dimwitted Americans it causes autism.


Harry, you have gone over the cliff.



Some prominent libertarians are vociferous anti-vaxxers and of those,
some claim stupidly that the vaccines cause autism.

There are also some vociferous liberal democrats who are very
anti-vax. That doesn't mean everyone is. The Libertarians I have heard
were not against vaccinations, only government mandated vaccination.
The position is not much different than the stance on abortion. It is
none of the government's business.



Actually Greg, it is.

Most are governed by state immunization laws but the Surgeon General
can require them under certain circumstances:

Under PHSA Section 361, the US Surgeon General, with approval from the
HHS secretary, is “authorized to make and enforce such regulations as in
his judgment are necessary to prevent the introduction, transmission, or
spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the States
or possessions, or from one State or possession into any other State or
possession.”

However, PHSA Section 361 forbids any regulation that supersedes state law.

There are exceptions to both state and federal requirements. Depends on
the circumstances.

To start with I am not anti vax.

I would still point out, simply passing a law does not make it right.
Jim Crow was the law of the land for almost a century.
Plenty of things considered normal sex acts could get you jail time up
until very recently and I don't even mean gay sex.
Between the Wilson administration and the Nixon administration,
protesting the draft was considered a "clear and present danger to the
US" as affirmed by the SCOTUS in SCHENCK v. U.S. , 249 U.S. 47 (1919).
I bet Harry thinks that was wrong.

Plenty of laws are wrong.
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Default Libertarians demand...
On 4/13/20 9:32 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 19:31:02 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/13/20 7:17 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 13:15:27 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/13/20 1:06 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 08:12:56 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

...Libertarians demand medical researchers delay coronavirus vaccine
until they can assure dimwitted Americans it causes autism.

Is this the mushrooms you pick in the cow pasture near your house that
gives you these visions?


"The Anti-Vaccination Argument

It’s simple. Libertarians believe that you own your mind, body, and
life. Therefore, libertarians believe that you have the right to refrain
from putting something into your body that you do not want to. If
consistent, this principle would support the anti-vaccine argument. The
Libertarian Party’s official website reads,

Libertarians believe that each person has the right to make their own
medical decisions. Libertarians support removing government meddling
from healthcare.


You have no problem supporting that idea when a woman wants to remove
a baby from her body.


It's a fetus.

For how many weeks?

That still dodges the point. You want the government out of our
private lives when it suits your cause.
At least I am consistent. I just want them out of our private lives.


Your right to a private life ends when your unvaccinated kids infect
others. A safe, medical abortion is not a health hazard to others in the
community.

--
For the survival of this country, it is vitally important for all of us
to successfully associate the substantial harm wreaked by COVID-19 with
Trump and thereby defeat him in the fall election.
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Default Libertarians demand...
On 4/13/2020 9:39 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 19:37:04 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/13/2020 7:16 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 13:08:26 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/13/20 12:53 PM, Bill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
...Libertarians demand medical researchers delay coronavirus vaccine
until they can assure dimwitted Americans it causes autism.


Harry, you have gone over the cliff.



Some prominent libertarians are vociferous anti-vaxxers and of those,
some claim stupidly that the vaccines cause autism.

There are also some vociferous liberal democrats who are very
anti-vax. That doesn't mean everyone is. The Libertarians I have heard
were not against vaccinations, only government mandated vaccination.
The position is not much different than the stance on abortion. It is
none of the government's business.



Actually Greg, it is.

Most are governed by state immunization laws but the Surgeon General
can require them under certain circumstances:

Under PHSA Section 361, the US Surgeon General, with approval from the
HHS secretary, is “authorized to make and enforce such regulations as in
his judgment are necessary to prevent the introduction, transmission, or
spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the States
or possessions, or from one State or possession into any other State or
possession.”

However, PHSA Section 361 forbids any regulation that supersedes state law.

There are exceptions to both state and federal requirements. Depends on
the circumstances.

To start with I am not anti vax.

I would still point out, simply passing a law does not make it right.
Jim Crow was the law of the land for almost a century.
Plenty of things considered normal sex acts could get you jail time up
until very recently and I don't even mean gay sex.
Between the Wilson administration and the Nixon administration,
protesting the draft was considered a "clear and present danger to the
US" as affirmed by the SCOTUS in SCHENCK v. U.S. , 249 U.S. 47 (1919).
I bet Harry thinks that was wrong.

Plenty of laws are wrong.



I was simply pointing out that by law both state and federal
governments *have* the authority to mandate inoculations.

The fact that you don't agree with the law is another matter.




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Default Libertarians demand...
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 23:35:49 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/13/2020 9:39 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 19:37:04 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/13/2020 7:16 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 13:08:26 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/13/20 12:53 PM, Bill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
...Libertarians demand medical researchers delay coronavirus vaccine
until they can assure dimwitted Americans it causes autism.


Harry, you have gone over the cliff.



Some prominent libertarians are vociferous anti-vaxxers and of those,
some claim stupidly that the vaccines cause autism.

There are also some vociferous liberal democrats who are very
anti-vax. That doesn't mean everyone is. The Libertarians I have heard
were not against vaccinations, only government mandated vaccination.
The position is not much different than the stance on abortion. It is
none of the government's business.



Actually Greg, it is.

Most are governed by state immunization laws but the Surgeon General
can require them under certain circumstances:

Under PHSA Section 361, the US Surgeon General, with approval from the
HHS secretary, is “authorized to make and enforce such regulations as in
his judgment are necessary to prevent the introduction, transmission, or
spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the States
or possessions, or from one State or possession into any other State or
possession.”

However, PHSA Section 361 forbids any regulation that supersedes state law.

There are exceptions to both state and federal requirements. Depends on
the circumstances.

To start with I am not anti vax.

I would still point out, simply passing a law does not make it right.
Jim Crow was the law of the land for almost a century.
Plenty of things considered normal sex acts could get you jail time up
until very recently and I don't even mean gay sex.
Between the Wilson administration and the Nixon administration,
protesting the draft was considered a "clear and present danger to the
US" as affirmed by the SCOTUS in SCHENCK v. U.S. , 249 U.S. 47 (1919).
I bet Harry thinks that was wrong.

Plenty of laws are wrong.



I was simply pointing out that by law both state and federal
governments *have* the authority to mandate inoculations.

The fact that you don't agree with the law is another matter.

I understand the incentive and I am basically not opposed but I would
be willing to ask where it stops.
What other medical procedure and drugs can they compel you to take
without due process?
It would certainly be easy to make the societal argument for
sterilization, anti alcohol drugs, maybe have the government giving
people drugs they think would help calm down the dissent.
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Default Libertarians demand...
On 4/14/2020 1:11 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 23:35:49 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/13/2020 9:39 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 19:37:04 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/13/2020 7:16 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 13:08:26 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 4/13/20 12:53 PM, Bill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
...Libertarians demand medical researchers delay coronavirus vaccine
until they can assure dimwitted Americans it causes autism.


Harry, you have gone over the cliff.



Some prominent libertarians are vociferous anti-vaxxers and of those,
some claim stupidly that the vaccines cause autism.

There are also some vociferous liberal democrats who are very
anti-vax. That doesn't mean everyone is. The Libertarians I have heard
were not against vaccinations, only government mandated vaccination.
The position is not much different than the stance on abortion. It is
none of the government's business.



Actually Greg, it is.

Most are governed by state immunization laws but the Surgeon General
can require them under certain circumstances:

Under PHSA Section 361, the US Surgeon General, with approval from the
HHS secretary, is “authorized to make and enforce such regulations as in
his judgment are necessary to prevent the introduction, transmission, or
spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the States
or possessions, or from one State or possession into any other State or
possession.”

However, PHSA Section 361 forbids any regulation that supersedes state law.

There are exceptions to both state and federal requirements. Depends on
the circumstances.

To start with I am not anti vax.

I would still point out, simply passing a law does not make it right.
Jim Crow was the law of the land for almost a century.
Plenty of things considered normal sex acts could get you jail time up
until very recently and I don't even mean gay sex.
Between the Wilson administration and the Nixon administration,
protesting the draft was considered a "clear and present danger to the
US" as affirmed by the SCOTUS in SCHENCK v. U.S. , 249 U.S. 47 (1919).
I bet Harry thinks that was wrong.

Plenty of laws are wrong.



I was simply pointing out that by law both state and federal
governments *have* the authority to mandate inoculations.

The fact that you don't agree with the law is another matter.

I understand the incentive and I am basically not opposed but I would
be willing to ask where it stops.
What other medical procedure and drugs can they compel you to take
without due process?
It would certainly be easy to make the societal argument for
sterilization, anti alcohol drugs, maybe have the government giving
people drugs they think would help calm down the dissent.



It's why we have a representative form of government. It's frustrating
sometimes, slow moving and time consuming but any law that is passed
and signed into law must first be voted upon by the elected politicians
who are supposed to be representing the people.

Only exceptions are policies or rules put into affect by
executive order and even then the other "equal" arm of
the state or federal government becomes involved in the
courts.

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