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Boat crash in Ft. Lauderdale
On 1/2/2020 1:31 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 22:50:10 -0500 (EST), Justan Ohlphart wrote: Wrote in message: On Wed, 01 Jan 2020 13:00:28 -0500, John H. wrote:On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 16:45:16 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:John H. wrote: On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 21:13:43 -0500, Alex wrote: Last night... https://wsvn.com/news/local/several-injured-after-boat-crashes-into-jetty-near-fort-lauderdale/ Cocktails? Not every jetty shows up on a GPS. That happened a few times in Deale, MD, when folks would follow the GPS to get home. Midnight and speed. He was not going slow to get that far up the rocks ina 42’ boat.For sure speed. Same thing happens in Deale. Going fast and taking the line offered by the GPS hasbeen the problem more than once. Everyone knows I am the real Luddite here but I fear modernelectronics is taking the place of basic seamanship and the importanceof local knowledge. Why do you fear modern ways of navigating? If you should ever decide to expand your horizons, you might embrace some of the newer technology available. Did you read what John wrote? People who trust their GPS blindly, hit things that are not in the database. The database for the bay here is pretty much useless anyway unless you just accept "don't go there" as an answer. The other issue is, if your electronics fail, do you just drop anchor and call sea tow, hoping they can triangulate your position on their radio or something? I know people who think their Garmin Chart Plotter is all they ever need. They don't even have a compass and no charts on board ... if they could read them in the first place. If that chart plotter craps out they are screwed, particularly at night. OTOH I navigate at night using local landmarks (radio towers, condos, mangrove islands I recognize) and simply knowing where I am and where I am going. Greg, your feelings are pretty much exactly how I felt when I first got into ocean boating. But once I graduated to the larger boats equipped with GPS, chart plotters and radar I realized that technology had much to offer over the old ways. I still had paper charts aboard and obviously a compass but found that the only time I had to use the charts was to program way-points into the chart plotter before getting underway in the morning. Never had to revert to navigating by charts and compass alone. |
Boat crash in Ft. Lauderdale
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Boat crash in Ft. Lauderdale
On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 07:05:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 1/1/2020 10:50 PM, Justan Ohlphart wrote: Wrote in message: On Wed, 01 Jan 2020 13:00:28 -0500, John H. wrote:On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 16:45:16 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:John H. wrote: On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 21:13:43 -0500, Alex wrote: Last night... https://wsvn.com/news/local/several-injured-after-boat-crashes-into-jetty-near-fort-lauderdale/ Cocktails? Not every jetty shows up on a GPS. That happened a few times in Deale, MD, when folks would follow the GPS to get home. Midnight and speed. He was not going slow to get that far up the rocks ina 42’ boat.For sure speed. Same thing happens in Deale. Going fast and taking the line offered by the GPS hasbeen the problem more than once. Everyone knows I am the real Luddite here but I fear modernelectronics is taking the place of basic seamanship and the importanceof local knowledge. Why do you fear modern ways of navigating? If you should ever decide to expand your horizons, you might embrace some of the newer technology available. I think that the advent of GPS, chart plotters and radar (if understood and used properly) have made boating (and aviation) much safer than in the days of compasses and paper charts. === There's no question about it. I started long distance cruising in 1974 when we bought our first sailboat big enough to sleep on. We had no electronic aids at all other than an old fashioned, flashing light depth sounder, and an inexpensive radio direction finder which was cumbersome to use and very imprecise. The RDF and depth sounder put us ahead of many other boat of that time however, and we navigated for many years and thousands of miles with nothing else. Dead reckoning and shore bearings were the gold standards of coastal navigation until the mid 1980s when Loran-C became widely available. Suddenly we now knew where we were within 100 yards or so, at least most of the time. |
Boat crash in Ft. Lauderdale
On 1/2/2020 1:31 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 22:50:10 -0500 (EST), Justan Ohlphart wrote: Wrote in message: On Wed, 01 Jan 2020 13:00:28 -0500, John H. wrote:On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 16:45:16 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:John H. wrote: On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 21:13:43 -0500, Alex wrote: Last night... https://wsvn.com/news/local/several-injured-after-boat-crashes-into-jetty-near-fort-lauderdale/ Cocktails? Not every jetty shows up on a GPS. That happened a few times in Deale, MD, when folks would follow the GPS to get home. Midnight and speed. He was not going slow to get that far up the rocks ina 42’ boat.For sure speed. Same thing happens in Deale. Going fast and taking the line offered by the GPS hasbeen the problem more than once. Everyone knows I am the real Luddite here but I fear modernelectronics is taking the place of basic seamanship and the importanceof local knowledge. Why do you fear modern ways of navigating? If you should ever decide to expand your horizons, you might embrace some of the newer technology available. Did you read what John wrote? People who trust their GPS blindly, hit things that are not in the database. The database for the bay here is pretty much useless anyway unless you just accept "don't go there" as an answer. The other issue is, if your electronics fail, do you just drop anchor and call sea tow, hoping they can triangulate your position on their radio or something? I know people who think their Garmin Chart Plotter is all they ever need. They don't even have a compass and no charts on board ... if they could read them in the first place. If that chart plotter craps out they are screwed, particularly at night. OTOH I navigate at night using local landmarks (radio towers, condos, mangrove islands I recognize) and simply knowing where I am and where I am going. I did. Knowing where you are and where you are going is a lot easier if you have help from a variety of electronic and mechanical instruments. Having local knowledge helps if you are local and you can see what is around you. I remember when all I had was a compass, binoculars, a chart and a Ray Jefferson RDF.Dividers and parallel rules came shortly after. We've come a long way since then. |
Boat crash in Ft. Lauderdale
On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 07:05:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 1/1/2020 10:50 PM, Justan Ohlphart wrote: Wrote in message: On Wed, 01 Jan 2020 13:00:28 -0500, John H. wrote:On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 16:45:16 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:John H. wrote: On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 21:13:43 -0500, Alex wrote: Last night... https://wsvn.com/news/local/several-injured-after-boat-crashes-into-jetty-near-fort-lauderdale/ Cocktails? Not every jetty shows up on a GPS. That happened a few times in Deale, MD, when folks would follow the GPS to get home. Midnight and speed. He was not going slow to get that far up the rocks ina 42’ boat.For sure speed. Same thing happens in Deale. Going fast and taking the line offered by the GPS hasbeen the problem more than once. Everyone knows I am the real Luddite here but I fear modernelectronics is taking the place of basic seamanship and the importanceof local knowledge. Why do you fear modern ways of navigating? If you should ever decide to expand your horizons, you might embrace some of the newer technology available. I think that the advent of GPS, chart plotters and radar (if understood and used properly) have made boating (and aviation) much safer than in the days of compasses and paper charts. That still doesn't mean you can avoid learning the basics of seamanship and navigation. For a river and bay boater like me, that is all overkill anyway. If I was trying to find a small Caribbean island in a big ocean, I see the need but just trying to avoid a jetty or oyster bar that may not be in the database in the first place is just giving a false sense of security. |
Boat crash in Ft. Lauderdale
On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 07:14:10 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 1/2/2020 1:31 AM, wrote: On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 22:50:10 -0500 (EST), Justan Ohlphart wrote: Wrote in message: On Wed, 01 Jan 2020 13:00:28 -0500, John H. wrote:On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 16:45:16 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:John H. wrote: On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 21:13:43 -0500, Alex wrote: Last night... https://wsvn.com/news/local/several-injured-after-boat-crashes-into-jetty-near-fort-lauderdale/ Cocktails? Not every jetty shows up on a GPS. That happened a few times in Deale, MD, when folks would follow the GPS to get home. Midnight and speed. He was not going slow to get that far up the rocks ina 42’ boat.For sure speed. Same thing happens in Deale. Going fast and taking the line offered by the GPS hasbeen the problem more than once. Everyone knows I am the real Luddite here but I fear modernelectronics is taking the place of basic seamanship and the importanceof local knowledge. Why do you fear modern ways of navigating? If you should ever decide to expand your horizons, you might embrace some of the newer technology available. Did you read what John wrote? People who trust their GPS blindly, hit things that are not in the database. The database for the bay here is pretty much useless anyway unless you just accept "don't go there" as an answer. The other issue is, if your electronics fail, do you just drop anchor and call sea tow, hoping they can triangulate your position on their radio or something? I know people who think their Garmin Chart Plotter is all they ever need. They don't even have a compass and no charts on board ... if they could read them in the first place. If that chart plotter craps out they are screwed, particularly at night. OTOH I navigate at night using local landmarks (radio towers, condos, mangrove islands I recognize) and simply knowing where I am and where I am going. Greg, your feelings are pretty much exactly how I felt when I first got into ocean boating. But once I graduated to the larger boats equipped with GPS, chart plotters and radar I realized that technology had much to offer over the old ways. I still had paper charts aboard and obviously a compass but found that the only time I had to use the charts was to program way-points into the chart plotter before getting underway in the morning. Never had to revert to navigating by charts and compass alone. I saw that the Navy is going back to teaching celestial navigation to their crews so somebody must think it is important. I suppose someone pointed out the GPS satellites might only last a couple days in a real war. I am not saying these new things are not handy. I am just saying everyone is depending on technology too much and forgetting basic skills. It is not just boating. Stand next to a broken cash register and watch the kid try to make change. It is scary. |
Boat crash in Ft. Lauderdale
Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 07:05:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 1/1/2020 10:50 PM, Justan Ohlphart wrote: Wrote in message: On Wed, 01 Jan 2020 13:00:28 -0500, John H. wrote:On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 16:45:16 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:John H. wrote: On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 21:13:43 -0500, Alex wrote: Last night... https://wsvn.com/news/local/several-injured-after-boat-crashes-into-jetty-near-fort-lauderdale/ Cocktails? Not every jetty shows up on a GPS. That happened a few times in Deale, MD, when folks would follow the GPS to get home. Midnight and speed. He was not going slow to get that far up the rocks ina 42’ boat.For sure speed. Same thing happens in Deale. Going fast and taking the line offered by the GPS hasbeen the problem more than once. Everyone knows I am the real Luddite here but I fear modernelectronics is taking the place of basic seamanship and the importanceof local knowledge. Why do you fear modern ways of navigating? If you should ever decide to expand your horizons, you might embrace some of the newer technology available. I think that the advent of GPS, chart plotters and radar (if understood and used properly) have made boating (and aviation) much safer than in the days of compasses and paper charts. === There's no question about it. I started long distance cruising in 1974 when we bought our first sailboat big enough to sleep on. We had no electronic aids at all other than an old fashioned, flashing light depth sounder, and an inexpensive radio direction finder which was cumbersome to use and very imprecise. The RDF and depth sounder put us ahead of many other boat of that time however, and we navigated for many years and thousands of miles with nothing else. Dead reckoning and shore bearings were the gold standards of coastal navigation until the mid 1980s when Loran-C became widely available. Suddenly we now knew where we were within 100 yards or so, at least most of the time. I can remember as a kid in the 1950’s, using a cheap portable radio with a directional antenna to help navigate back to the Golden Gate Bridge in the fog from the Farallon Islands. A coupe radio stations had a tower by the eastern end of the Oakland Bay Bridge which somewhat lined up with the Gate. |
Boat crash in Ft. Lauderdale
Wrote in message:
On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 07:14:10 -0500, "Mr. wrote:On 1/2/2020 1:31 AM, wrote: On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 22:50:10 -0500 (EST), Justan Ohlphart wrote: Wrote in message: On Wed, 01 Jan 2020 13:00:28 -0500, John H. wrote:On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 16:45:16 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:John H. wrote: On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 21:13:43 -0500, Alex wrote: Last night... https://wsvn.com/news/local/several-injured-after-boat-crashes-into-jetty-near-fort-lauderdale/ Cocktails? Not every jetty shows up on a GPS. That happened a few times in Deale, MD, when folks would follow the GPS to get home. Midnight and speed. He was not going slow to get that far up the rocks ina 42+IBk boat.For sure speed. Same thing happens in Deale. Going fast and taking the line offered by the GPS hasbeen the problem more than once. Everyone knows I am the real Luddite here but I fear modernelectronics is taking the place of basic seamanship and the importanceof local knowledge. Why do you fear modern ways of navigating? If you should ever decide to expand your horizons, you might embrace some of the newer technology available. Did you read what John wrote? People who trust their GPS blindly, hit things that are not in the database. The database for the bay here is pretty much useless anyway unless you just accept "don't go there" as an answer. The other issue is, if your electronics fail, do you just drop anchor and call sea tow, hoping they can triangulate your position on their radio or something? I know people who think their Garmin Chart Plotter is all they ever need. They don't even have a compass and no charts on board ... if they could read them in the first place. If that chart plotter craps out they are screwed, particularly at night. OTOH I navigate at night using local landmarks (radio towers, condos, mangrove islands I recognize) and simply knowing where I am and where I am going. Greg, your feelings are pretty much exactly how I felt when I first gotinto ocean boating. But once I graduated to the larger boats equippedwith GPS, chart plotters and radar I realized that technology had muchto offer over the old ways.I still had paper charts aboard and obviously a compass but found thatthe only time I had to use the charts was to program way-points intothe chart plotter before getting underway in the morning. Never hadto revert to navigating by charts and compass alone.I saw that the Navy is going back to teaching celestial navigation totheir crews so somebody must think it is important. I suppose someonepointed out the GPS satellites might only last a couple days in a realwar. I am not saying these new things are not handy. I am just sayingeveryone is depending on technology too much and forgetting basicskills. It is not just boating. Stand next to a broken cash registerand watch the kid try to make change. It is scary. Pretty soon all us folks who remember how it used to be will be dead and material currency will be a collectors item. Wars will be fought with joysticks. Future combatants are being trained by video games. ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
Boat crash in Ft. Lauderdale
On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 17:04:44 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote: Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 07:05:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 1/1/2020 10:50 PM, Justan Ohlphart wrote: Wrote in message: On Wed, 01 Jan 2020 13:00:28 -0500, John H. wrote:On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 16:45:16 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:John H. wrote: On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 21:13:43 -0500, Alex wrote: Last night... https://wsvn.com/news/local/several-injured-after-boat-crashes-into-jetty-near-fort-lauderdale/ Cocktails? Not every jetty shows up on a GPS. That happened a few times in Deale, MD, when folks would follow the GPS to get home. Midnight and speed. He was not going slow to get that far up the rocks ina 42? boat.For sure speed. Same thing happens in Deale. Going fast and taking the line offered by the GPS hasbeen the problem more than once. Everyone knows I am the real Luddite here but I fear modernelectronics is taking the place of basic seamanship and the importanceof local knowledge. Why do you fear modern ways of navigating? If you should ever decide to expand your horizons, you might embrace some of the newer technology available. I think that the advent of GPS, chart plotters and radar (if understood and used properly) have made boating (and aviation) much safer than in the days of compasses and paper charts. === There's no question about it. I started long distance cruising in 1974 when we bought our first sailboat big enough to sleep on. We had no electronic aids at all other than an old fashioned, flashing light depth sounder, and an inexpensive radio direction finder which was cumbersome to use and very imprecise. The RDF and depth sounder put us ahead of many other boat of that time however, and we navigated for many years and thousands of miles with nothing else. Dead reckoning and shore bearings were the gold standards of coastal navigation until the mid 1980s when Loran-C became widely available. Suddenly we now knew where we were within 100 yards or so, at least most of the time. I can remember as a kid in the 1950’s, using a cheap portable radio with a directional antenna to help navigate back to the Golden Gate Bridge in the fog from the Farallon Islands. A coupe radio stations had a tower by the eastern end of the Oakland Bay Bridge which somewhat lined up with the Gate. I started using the radio towers here for a visual indication of where I was and they all have unique blink rates at night so they are easy to differentiate. It turns out there are three that do an excellent job of marking the path you need to move around in the bay at night and if you also use the 96 K-Rock tower, in conjunction with the bridge lights to get through Big Carlos Pass without hitting the bars on both sides. |
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