On 10/11/2018 8:45 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:40:55 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H.
wrote:


http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3

"The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to
benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been
pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction
and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college
education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain."

Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant.

There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages
are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off

BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators.

About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8?
They must have stronger horses in China

===


In my experience the normal ratio of horsepower to KW is 2:1. Anything
less should be considered suspect.


We shouldn't confuse horsepower and watts with horsepower and generator
output in watts.

1 hp = 745.7 watts so 8 hp = 5965.6 watts. That's simply the engine
power.

The generator output in watts will obviously be considerably lower.

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 21:01:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/11/2018 8:45 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:40:55 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H.
wrote:


http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3

"The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to
benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been
pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction
and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college
education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain."

Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant.

There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages
are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off

BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators.

About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8?
They must have stronger horses in China

===


In my experience the normal ratio of horsepower to KW is 2:1. Anything
less should be considered suspect.


We shouldn't confuse horsepower and watts with horsepower and generator
output in watts.

1 hp = 745.7 watts so 8 hp = 5965.6 watts. That's simply the engine
power.

The generator output in watts will obviously be considerably lower.


Makes you wonder how good that 8hp 5.5kw Harbor Fright generator could
be.

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 22:01:17 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 21:01:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/11/2018 8:45 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:40:55 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H.
wrote:


http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3

"The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to
benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been
pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction
and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college
education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain."

Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant.

There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages
are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off

BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators.

About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8?
They must have stronger horses in China

===


In my experience the normal ratio of horsepower to KW is 2:1. Anything
less should be considered suspect.


We shouldn't confuse horsepower and watts with horsepower and generator
output in watts.

1 hp = 745.7 watts so 8 hp = 5965.6 watts. That's simply the engine
power.

The generator output in watts will obviously be considerably lower.


Makes you wonder how good that 8hp 5.5kw Harbor Fright generator could
be.

===

That was my point when I stated the normal 2:1 ratio of HP to KW.

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 21:01:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/11/2018 8:45 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:40:55 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H.
wrote:


http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3

"The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to
benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been
pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction
and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college
education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain."

Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant.

There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages
are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off

BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators.

About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8?
They must have stronger horses in China

===


In my experience the normal ratio of horsepower to KW is 2:1. Anything
less should be considered suspect.


We shouldn't confuse horsepower and watts with horsepower and generator
output in watts.

1 hp = 745.7 watts so 8 hp = 5965.6 watts. That's simply the engine
power.

The generator output in watts will obviously be considerably lower.



===

Understood but 1 HP = 745.7 watts is the theoretical maximum. In
reality you need considerably more horsepower to produse a KW because
of electrical and mechanical losses, and because the engine is usually
not being run at the RPM which produces peak power.

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 22:00:59 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 21:01:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/11/2018 8:45 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:40:55 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H.
wrote:


http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3

"The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to
benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been
pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction
and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college
education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain."

Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant.

There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages
are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off

BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators.

About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8?
They must have stronger horses in China

===


In my experience the normal ratio of horsepower to KW is 2:1. Anything
less should be considered suspect.


We shouldn't confuse horsepower and watts with horsepower and generator
output in watts.

1 hp = 745.7 watts so 8 hp = 5965.6 watts. That's simply the engine
power.

The generator output in watts will obviously be considerably lower.



===

Understood but 1 HP = 745.7 watts is the theoretical maximum. In
reality you need considerably more horsepower to produse a KW because
of electrical and mechanical losses, and because the engine is usually
not being run at the RPM which produces peak power.

All I can say is that we should have used stronger horses. If that horse could have pulled an
additional 11,254.72 pounds in one minute, then the results would be much easier to remember.

On 10/11/2018 10:00 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 21:01:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/11/2018 8:45 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:40:55 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H.
wrote:


http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3

"The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on the bottom rungs are beginning to
benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's jobs report, unemployment has been
pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar industries, such as construction
and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers. Pay for people without a college
education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the overall wage gain."

Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant.

There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages
are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off

BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators.

About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8?
They must have stronger horses in China

===


In my experience the normal ratio of horsepower to KW is 2:1. Anything
less should be considered suspect.


We shouldn't confuse horsepower and watts with horsepower and generator
output in watts.

1 hp = 745.7 watts so 8 hp = 5965.6 watts. That's simply the engine
power.

The generator output in watts will obviously be considerably lower.



===

Understood but 1 HP = 745.7 watts is the theoretical maximum. In
reality you need considerably more horsepower to produse a KW because
of electrical and mechanical losses, and because the engine is usually
not being run at the RPM which produces peak power.



Agreed. But again, I think the confusion is the conversion of hp to Kw
which is the engine only. It doesn't consider what the engine is doing
with that Kw and the loses occurred in generating an output.

Good example is the current discussion about microwave ovens. There's
some confusion about the rating of the microwave's output power versus
the power required to produce that output.

On 10/12/18 8:10 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/11/2018 10:00 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 21:01:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/11/2018 8:45 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:40:55 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H.
wrote:


http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3

"The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on
the bottom rungs are beginning to
benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's
jobs report, unemployment has been
pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar
industries, such as construction
and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers.
Pay for people without a college
education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the
overall wage gain."

Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant.

There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages
are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off

BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators.

About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8?
They must have stronger horses in China

===


In my experience the normal ratio of horsepower to KW is 2:1. Anything
less should be considered suspect.


We shouldn't confuse horsepower and watts with horsepower and generator
output in watts.

1 hp = 745.7 wattsÂ*Â* so 8 hp = 5965.6 watts.Â* That's simply the engine
power.

The generator output in watts will obviously be considerably lower.



===

Understood but 1 HP = 745.7 watts is the theoretical maximum.Â* In
reality you need considerably more horsepower to produse a KW because
of electrical and mechanical losses, and because the engine is usually
not being run at the RPM which produces peak power.



Agreed.Â* But again, I think the confusion is the conversion of hp to Kw
which is the engine only.Â* It doesn't consider what the engine is doing
with that Kw and the loses occurred in generating an output.

Good example is the current discussion about microwave ovens.Â* There's
some confusion about the rating of the microwave's output power versus
the power required to produce that output.


I happen to have that info handy because I looked it up last week when I
had to replace a dead microwave oven. Here's how it is figured:

A 1200 watt output microwave takes 10. The typical formula for this is..
P = VI.. I = P/V = 1200 /120 =10 A. Hence, one would think that the
answer is 10 A.. However, this formula applies only for DC current. For
AC current,. P=VI cos (theta). where theta is the phase difference
between V and I.. This phase difference is created by the inductances
inside the microwave oven. This phase difference is probably mentioned
on the specifications of the microwave.. Otherwise another specification
maybe mentioned called "MVA".. Power (measured in MVA) = V * I. Using
this , we can directly measure the I.. However, in the absence of either
of the two additional information, it is impossible to fully find I.

The new micro, in the manual, states:

Rated power consumption 1250 watts
Max Microwave output 1200 watts
Frequency 2450 MHz
Rated Current 10.4 A

OF course, those are Chinese measurements.

On 10/12/2018 8:23 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/12/18 8:10 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/11/2018 10:00 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 21:01:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/11/2018 8:45 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:40:55 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H.
wrote:


http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3

"The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on
the bottom rungs are beginning to
benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's
jobs report, unemployment has been
pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar
industries, such as construction
and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar workers.
Pay for people without a college
education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the
overall wage gain."

Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant.

There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages
are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off

BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators.

About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8?
They must have stronger horses in China

===


In my experience the normal ratio of horsepower to KW is 2:1. Anything
less should be considered suspect.


We shouldn't confuse horsepower and watts with horsepower and generator
output in watts.

1 hp = 745.7 wattsÂ*Â* so 8 hp = 5965.6 watts.Â* That's simply the engine
power.

The generator output in watts will obviously be considerably lower.



===

Understood but 1 HP = 745.7 watts is the theoretical maximum.Â* In
reality you need considerably more horsepower to produse a KW because
of electrical and mechanical losses, and because the engine is usually
not being run at the RPM which produces peak power.



Agreed.Â* But again, I think the confusion is the conversion of hp to Kw
which is the engine only.Â* It doesn't consider what the engine is doing
with that Kw and the loses occurred in generating an output.

Good example is the current discussion about microwave ovens.Â* There's
some confusion about the rating of the microwave's output power versus
the power required to produce that output.


I happen to have that info handy because I looked it up last week when I
had to replace a dead microwave oven. Here's how it is figured:

A 1200 watt output microwave takes 10. The typical formula for this is..
P = VI.. I = P/V = 1200 /120 =10 A. Hence, one would think that the
answer is 10 A.. However, this formula applies only for DC current. For
AC current,. P=VI cos (theta). where theta is the phase difference
between V and I.. This phase difference is created by the inductances
inside the microwave oven. This phase difference is probably mentioned
on the specifications of the microwave.. Otherwise another specification
maybe mentioned called "MVA".. Power (measured in MVA) = V * I. Using
this , we can directly measure the I.. However, in the absence of either
of the two additional information, it is impossible to fully find I.

The new micro, in the manual, states:

Rated power consumptionÂ* 1250 watts
Max Microwave outputÂ*Â*Â*Â* 1200 watts
FrequencyÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 2450 MHz
Rated CurrentÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 10.4 A

OF course, those are Chinese measurements.Â*Â*


Heh. Again, those are the ratings of the microwave output power, mostly
the klystron that actually produces the microwave energy. If taken as
the power required (you can forget about all the phase relationships
of voltage vs current and DC vs AC for this purpose) it would mean that
the microwave is 100% efficient in converting input power to output
power which is impossible.

It may vary somewhat from microwave to microwave and it's age but
a 1200 watt microwave draws considerably more current (power) to
run compared to it's rated output powers. In the case of my relatively
new 1200 watt microwave, the measured current draw is slightly over 16
amperes. Call it 16 amps. 120v * 16 amperes = 1920 watts.

Even the smaller, 750 watt microwave draws about 11 amps to produce
it's rated output of 750 watts. 120v * 11 amperes = 1320 watts.

On 10/12/2018 8:45 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/12/2018 8:23 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/12/18 8:10 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/11/2018 10:00 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 21:01:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/11/2018 8:45 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:40:55 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:11:23 -0400, John H.
wrote:


http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3

"The left is revving up attacks on capitalism just as workers on
the bottom rungs are beginning to
benefit from the booming U.S. economy. According to last week's
jobs report, unemployment has been
pushed back to its lowest level since 1969. Wages in blue-collar
industries, such as construction
and maintenance, are rising faster than for white-collar
workers. Pay for people without a college
education jumped almost 6 percent since last year -- triple the
overall wage gain."

Gosh, I thought wage growth was stagnant.

There was an article in USA Today yesterday talking about .how wages
are going up across the board and some jobs are really taking off

BTW your link took me to Harbor Fright generators.

About that, why is my 5.5 KW Briggs 11 hp and theirs is 8?
They must have stronger horses in China

===


In my experience the normal ratio of horsepower to KW is 2:1.
Anything
less should be considered suspect.


We shouldn't confuse horsepower and watts with horsepower and
generator
output in watts.

1 hp = 745.7 wattsÂ*Â* so 8 hp = 5965.6 watts.Â* That's simply the engine
power.

The generator output in watts will obviously be considerably lower.



===

Understood but 1 HP = 745.7 watts is the theoretical maximum.Â* In
reality you need considerably more horsepower to produse a KW because
of electrical and mechanical losses, and because the engine is usually
not being run at the RPM which produces peak power.



Agreed.Â* But again, I think the confusion is the conversion of hp to Kw
which is the engine only.Â* It doesn't consider what the engine is doing
with that Kw and the loses occurred in generating an output.

Good example is the current discussion about microwave ovens.
There's some confusion about the rating of the microwave's output
power versus the power required to produce that output.


I happen to have that info handy because I looked it up last week when
I had to replace a dead microwave oven. Here's how it is figured:

A 1200 watt output microwave takes 10. The typical formula for this
is.. P = VI.. I = P/V = 1200 /120 =10 A. Hence, one would think that
the answer is 10 A.. However, this formula applies only for DC
current. For AC current,. P=VI cos (theta). where theta is the phase
difference between V and I.. This phase difference is created by the
inductances inside the microwave oven. This phase difference is
probably mentioned on the specifications of the microwave.. Otherwise
another specification maybe mentioned called "MVA".. Power (measured
in MVA) = V * I. Using this , we can directly measure the I.. However,
in the absence of either of the two additional information, it is
impossible to fully find I.

The new micro, in the manual, states:

Rated power consumptionÂ* 1250 watts
Max Microwave outputÂ*Â*Â*Â* 1200 watts
FrequencyÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 2450 MHz
Rated CurrentÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 10.4 A

OF course, those are Chinese measurements.Â*Â*


Heh.Â* Again, those are the ratings of the microwave output power, mostly
the klystron that actually produces the microwave energy.Â* If taken as
the power required (you can forget about all the phase relationships
of voltage vs current and DC vs AC for this purpose) it would mean that
the microwave is 100% efficient in converting input power to output
power which is impossible.

It may vary somewhat from microwave to microwave and it's age but
a 1200 watt microwave draws considerably more current (power) to
run compared to it's rated output powers.Â* In the case of my relatively
new 1200 watt microwave, the measured current draw is slightly over 16
amperes.Â* Call it 16 amps.Â* 120v * 16 amperes = 1920 watts.

Even the smaller, 750 watt microwave draws about 11 amps to produce
it's rated output of 750 watts.Â* 120v * 11 amperes = 1320 watts.


I need to correct some readings. The current draw of 16 amps was when
I was running the 1200 watt microwave on the generator. I realized it
may have been a higher current reading due to shape factor of the
AC waveform generated by the generator andif there was any voltage droop
due to the generator being loaded close to it's max. So, I just
measured the current it draws when powered by commercial power.

Voltage is 121 vac. Current draw is 14 amps. So, it's using 121v * 14
amperes to produce 1200 watts of microwave power output or 1694 watts
"in" to produce 1200 watts "out".

Very reasonable and believable readings to me.

Struggled last January trying to decide between the EU2000i and the larger 2800 inverter unit. Bought the nice little suitcase model but I'm sure if we have another extended outage, I'll be kicking my butt.