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Bill[_12_] August 2nd 18 07:39 PM

More of that lake city .308
 
wrote:
On Thu, 02 Aug 2018 13:09:03 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 02 Aug 2018 12:41:06 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 05:04:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 8/1/2018 9:50 PM,
wrote:
On Wed, 01 Aug 2018 20:46:44 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Aug 2018 13:50:39 -0400,
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Aug 2018 09:59:06 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 03:58:05 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:

John H
On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 22:04:39 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

- show quoted text -
If it won't pass the magnet test, it can't be fired at my local range (indoors).
.........

I still can’t figure out that ruling.

Sparks.

Sparks? Really? In a place with massive muzzle blasts.

Yes. Really. No reason to **** you.


What are the sparks going to do that a dragons breath of flame 6 feet
long won't do?


As previously mentioned, a spark (as a source of ignition) can be much
hotter than a flame.


It is still unclear what is going to catch on fire.


===

Like you said, probably nothing, but some range folks have seized on
that as a secondary reason. The potential for backstop damage and
ricochet risk are no doubt first and foremost. Also, they can
probably get more for their recycled lead as an additional economic
reason.


I don't even think recycling the lead has anything to do with it
because when they smelt the lead, the steel and copper will float up
to the top to be skimmed off. My bullet making buddy did this all the
time when he was making bullets from scrap lead.
As I said earlier, the design of the trap mitigates ricochets. They
all ricochet into the belly of the trap.
I still say, it is just to protect his investment in the trap.
I know I chipped the 1/2" steel plates in mine when I was shooting
something too "hot" and that was just copper over lead. I am sure the
BiMetal is a bit harder than that.
I do wonder how much sparking you really get tho because that metal is
not really that hard. You can bugger it up quite a bit just grabbing
it with pliers to pull the bullet out. I usually think of sparks with
flint and hardened steel, like as hard as a file.

Russian 9MM BiMetal bullet
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Tula%209mm%20bullet.jpg


When I got shot in the service was a ricochet from a 38 off the target
frame. Outdoor police range in Novato near the base. Base had a rifle
range.


Wayne.B August 2nd 18 09:18 PM

More of that lake city .308
 
On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 18:39:12 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 02 Aug 2018 13:09:03 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 02 Aug 2018 12:41:06 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 05:04:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 8/1/2018 9:50 PM,
wrote:
On Wed, 01 Aug 2018 20:46:44 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Aug 2018 13:50:39 -0400,
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Aug 2018 09:59:06 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 03:58:05 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:

John H
On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 22:04:39 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

- show quoted text -
If it won't pass the magnet test, it can't be fired at my local range (indoors).
.........

I still can’t figure out that ruling.

Sparks.

Sparks? Really? In a place with massive muzzle blasts.

Yes. Really. No reason to **** you.


What are the sparks going to do that a dragons breath of flame 6 feet
long won't do?


As previously mentioned, a spark (as a source of ignition) can be much
hotter than a flame.


It is still unclear what is going to catch on fire.

===

Like you said, probably nothing, but some range folks have seized on
that as a secondary reason. The potential for backstop damage and
ricochet risk are no doubt first and foremost. Also, they can
probably get more for their recycled lead as an additional economic
reason.


I don't even think recycling the lead has anything to do with it
because when they smelt the lead, the steel and copper will float up
to the top to be skimmed off. My bullet making buddy did this all the
time when he was making bullets from scrap lead.
As I said earlier, the design of the trap mitigates ricochets. They
all ricochet into the belly of the trap.
I still say, it is just to protect his investment in the trap.
I know I chipped the 1/2" steel plates in mine when I was shooting
something too "hot" and that was just copper over lead. I am sure the
BiMetal is a bit harder than that.
I do wonder how much sparking you really get tho because that metal is
not really that hard. You can bugger it up quite a bit just grabbing
it with pliers to pull the bullet out. I usually think of sparks with
flint and hardened steel, like as hard as a file.

Russian 9MM BiMetal bullet
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Tula%209mm%20bullet.jpg


When I got shot in the service was a ricochet from a 38 off the target
frame. Outdoor police range in Novato near the base. Base had a rifle
range.


===

Did you get a Purple Heart or is that just for combat? A friend of
mine got a Purple Heart for what he claims was an accidental
discharge.

Keyser Söze August 2nd 18 09:29 PM

More of that lake city .308
 
Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 18:39:12 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 02 Aug 2018 13:09:03 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 02 Aug 2018 12:41:06 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 05:04:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 8/1/2018 9:50 PM,
wrote:
On Wed, 01 Aug 2018 20:46:44 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Aug 2018 13:50:39 -0400,
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Aug 2018 09:59:06 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 03:58:05 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:

John H
On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 22:04:39 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

- show quoted text -
If it won't pass the magnet test, it can't be fired at my local range (indoors).
.........

I still canÂ’t figure out that ruling.

Sparks.

Sparks? Really? In a place with massive muzzle blasts.

Yes. Really. No reason to **** you.


What are the sparks going to do that a dragons breath of flame 6 feet
long won't do?


As previously mentioned, a spark (as a source of ignition) can be much
hotter than a flame.


It is still unclear what is going to catch on fire.

===

Like you said, probably nothing, but some range folks have seized on
that as a secondary reason. The potential for backstop damage and
ricochet risk are no doubt first and foremost. Also, they can
probably get more for their recycled lead as an additional economic
reason.

I don't even think recycling the lead has anything to do with it
because when they smelt the lead, the steel and copper will float up
to the top to be skimmed off. My bullet making buddy did this all the
time when he was making bullets from scrap lead.
As I said earlier, the design of the trap mitigates ricochets. They
all ricochet into the belly of the trap.
I still say, it is just to protect his investment in the trap.
I know I chipped the 1/2" steel plates in mine when I was shooting
something too "hot" and that was just copper over lead. I am sure the
BiMetal is a bit harder than that.
I do wonder how much sparking you really get tho because that metal is
not really that hard. You can bugger it up quite a bit just grabbing
it with pliers to pull the bullet out. I usually think of sparks with
flint and hardened steel, like as hard as a file.

Russian 9MM BiMetal bullet
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Tula%209mm%20bullet.jpg


When I got shot in the service was a ricochet from a 38 off the target
frame. Outdoor police range in Novato near the base. Base had a rifle
range.


===

Did you get a Purple Heart or is that just for combat? A friend of
mine got a Purple Heart for what he claims was an accidental
discharge.


You can get a Purple Heart for non-combat injuries?

--
Posted with my iPhone 8+.

[email protected] August 2nd 18 10:24 PM

More of that lake city .308
 
On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 16:29:40 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 18:39:12 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 02 Aug 2018 13:09:03 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 02 Aug 2018 12:41:06 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 05:04:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 8/1/2018 9:50 PM,
wrote:
On Wed, 01 Aug 2018 20:46:44 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Aug 2018 13:50:39 -0400,
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Aug 2018 09:59:06 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 03:58:05 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:

John H
On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 22:04:39 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

- show quoted text -
If it won't pass the magnet test, it can't be fired at my local range (indoors).
.........

I still can?t figure out that ruling.

Sparks.

Sparks? Really? In a place with massive muzzle blasts.

Yes. Really. No reason to **** you.


What are the sparks going to do that a dragons breath of flame 6 feet
long won't do?


As previously mentioned, a spark (as a source of ignition) can be much
hotter than a flame.


It is still unclear what is going to catch on fire.

===

Like you said, probably nothing, but some range folks have seized on
that as a secondary reason. The potential for backstop damage and
ricochet risk are no doubt first and foremost. Also, they can
probably get more for their recycled lead as an additional economic
reason.

I don't even think recycling the lead has anything to do with it
because when they smelt the lead, the steel and copper will float up
to the top to be skimmed off. My bullet making buddy did this all the
time when he was making bullets from scrap lead.
As I said earlier, the design of the trap mitigates ricochets. They
all ricochet into the belly of the trap.
I still say, it is just to protect his investment in the trap.
I know I chipped the 1/2" steel plates in mine when I was shooting
something too "hot" and that was just copper over lead. I am sure the
BiMetal is a bit harder than that.
I do wonder how much sparking you really get tho because that metal is
not really that hard. You can bugger it up quite a bit just grabbing
it with pliers to pull the bullet out. I usually think of sparks with
flint and hardened steel, like as hard as a file.

Russian 9MM BiMetal bullet
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Tula%209mm%20bullet.jpg


When I got shot in the service was a ricochet from a 38 off the target
frame. Outdoor police range in Novato near the base. Base had a rifle
range.


===

Did you get a Purple Heart or is that just for combat? A friend of
mine got a Purple Heart for what he claims was an accidental
discharge.


You can get a Purple Heart for non-combat injuries?


Yes, if you were in a combat zone at the time but it is frowned on.


Mr. Luddite[_4_] August 2nd 18 10:46 PM

More of that lake city .308
 
On 8/2/2018 5:24 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 16:29:40 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 18:39:12 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 02 Aug 2018 13:09:03 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 02 Aug 2018 12:41:06 -0400,
wrote:

On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 05:04:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 8/1/2018 9:50 PM,
wrote:
On Wed, 01 Aug 2018 20:46:44 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Aug 2018 13:50:39 -0400,
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Aug 2018 09:59:06 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 03:58:05 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:

John H
On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 22:04:39 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

- show quoted text -
If it won't pass the magnet test, it can't be fired at my local range (indoors).
.........

I still can?t figure out that ruling.

Sparks.

Sparks? Really? In a place with massive muzzle blasts.

Yes. Really. No reason to **** you.


What are the sparks going to do that a dragons breath of flame 6 feet
long won't do?


As previously mentioned, a spark (as a source of ignition) can be much
hotter than a flame.


It is still unclear what is going to catch on fire.

===

Like you said, probably nothing, but some range folks have seized on
that as a secondary reason. The potential for backstop damage and
ricochet risk are no doubt first and foremost. Also, they can
probably get more for their recycled lead as an additional economic
reason.

I don't even think recycling the lead has anything to do with it
because when they smelt the lead, the steel and copper will float up
to the top to be skimmed off. My bullet making buddy did this all the
time when he was making bullets from scrap lead.
As I said earlier, the design of the trap mitigates ricochets. They
all ricochet into the belly of the trap.
I still say, it is just to protect his investment in the trap.
I know I chipped the 1/2" steel plates in mine when I was shooting
something too "hot" and that was just copper over lead. I am sure the
BiMetal is a bit harder than that.
I do wonder how much sparking you really get tho because that metal is
not really that hard. You can bugger it up quite a bit just grabbing
it with pliers to pull the bullet out. I usually think of sparks with
flint and hardened steel, like as hard as a file.

Russian 9MM BiMetal bullet
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Tula%209mm%20bullet.jpg


When I got shot in the service was a ricochet from a 38 off the target
frame. Outdoor police range in Novato near the base. Base had a rifle
range.

===

Did you get a Purple Heart or is that just for combat? A friend of
mine got a Purple Heart for what he claims was an accidental
discharge.


You can get a Purple Heart for non-combat injuries?




Yes, if you were in a combat zone at the time but it is frowned on.



Just ask John Kerry. :-)

Actually, according to Wiki:

"The criteria for the Purple Heart call for its award for any injury
received during combat requiring treatment by a medical officer; the
military makes no distinction regarding the severity of the injury.
Under military regulations, the Purple Heart can also be awarded for
"friendly fire" wounds in the "heat of battle," so long as the fire is
targeted "under full intent of inflicting damage or destroying enemy
troops or equipment."


Alex[_15_] August 3rd 18 12:42 AM

More of that lake city .308
 
John H. wrote:
On Wed, 01 Aug 2018 13:43:51 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 01 Aug 2018 06:11:11 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 22:04:39 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 21:45:10 -0400,
wrote:

https://tinyurl.com/ydgtok3a

Lake city is mil spec stuff.
===

How is it possible that a brass case will attract a magnet? Is it
brass plated steel? Somethings fishy.
If it won't pass the magnet test, it can't be fired at my local range (indoors).

I doubt you are shooting a .308 indoors anyway.

It's the largest allowed at the range.


They allow .30-06 according to their website.


Alex[_15_] August 3rd 18 12:53 AM

More of that lake city .308
 
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/1/2018 8:32 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 14:17:59 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 8/1/2018 1:50 PM,
wrote:
On Wed, 01 Aug 2018 09:59:06 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 03:58:05 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

John H
On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 22:04:39 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

- show quoted text -
If it won't pass the magnet test, it can't be fired at my local
range (indoors).
.........

I still can’t figure out that ruling.

Sparks.

Sparks? Really? In a place with massive muzzle blasts.



The indoor range I described in a previous post that had exhaust fans,
etc. was eventually closed due to concern of a spark causing a fire or
worse.


Again, if you have muzzle blasts going off all day, what in the hell
will a spark do? Have you ever shot a gun in the dark? Flame shoots
out of the barrel several inches for a .22 rifle and a handgun will
shoot a blast of flame worthy of a 4th of July celebration. A short
.357 will shoot a dragon's breath of flame 5 feet or more.




What do you think is hotter ... a flame from a muzzle blast (or other
source) or a spark? Answer might surprise you. A spark has very
little mass, so normally little damage from them occur but they can
be much hotter in terms of an ignition source than a flame.



The sparks are occurring downrange. The muzzle blast is may yards
back. I can't imagine what would be flammable in the back stop.


Alex[_15_] August 3rd 18 12:56 AM

More of that lake city .308
 
wrote:
On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 02:25:14 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 01 Aug 2018 20:46:44 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Aug 2018 13:50:39 -0400,
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Aug 2018 09:59:06 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 03:58:05 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:

John H
On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 22:04:39 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

- show quoted text -
If it won't pass the magnet test, it can't be fired at my local range (indoors).
.........

I still can’t figure out that ruling.
Sparks.
Sparks? Really? In a place with massive muzzle blasts.
Yes. Really. No reason to **** you.
What are the sparks going to do that a dragons breath of flame 6 feet
long won't do?

Probably ricochet more. And not recyclable much.

If the backstop is properly angled, it is always going to be a
ricochet. but it will bounce into the trap.;-)
I ended up learning a lot about what bullets do when they hit steel.
The first thing to understand is all FMJs explode on impact with
steel. Pistol bullets with gas checks are the worst. That gas check
may go back toward the shooter 10-15 feet. That is the other reason
why I always shot through cardboard. The lead tends to hit and slide.
Most of what I shot in the basement was cast lead. (.22 or .38
wadcutter).Just about the only time I shot anything jacketed was when
I was chronographing a load I was working up.


Not always. I was once hit with a .44 magnum bullet that must have
ricocheted off of the edge of the angled plates. It stung but didn't
leave a mark.

Alex[_15_] August 3rd 18 12:57 AM

More of that lake city .308
 
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/2/18 4:59 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/1/2018 8:32 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 14:17:59 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 8/1/2018 1:50 PM,
wrote:
On Wed, 01 Aug 2018 09:59:06 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 03:58:05 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

John H
On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 22:04:39 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

- show quoted text -
If it won't pass the magnet test, it can't be fired at my local
range (indoors).
.........

I still can’t figure out that ruling.

Sparks.

Sparks? Really? In a place with massive muzzle blasts.



The indoor range I described in a previous post that had exhaust fans,
etc. was eventually closed due to concern of a spark causing a fire or
worse.

Again, if you have muzzle blasts going off all day, what in the hell
will a spark do? Have you ever shot a gun in the dark? Flame shoots
out of the barrel several inches for a .22 rifle and a handgun will
shoot a blast of flame worthy of a 4th of July celebration. A short
.357 will shoot a dragon's breath of flame 5 feet or more.




What do you think is hotter ... a flame from a muzzle blast (or other
source) or a spark? Answer might surprise you. A spark has very
little mass, so normally little damage from them occur but they can
be much hotter in terms of an ignition source than a flame.



Damn...I could use my .357 revolver to ignite the charcoal in a
charcoal grill...if I had a charcoal grill! Or to light a buddy's
cigarette, if I had any buddies! :)


That's a shame.

Bill[_12_] August 3rd 18 02:18 AM

More of that lake city .308
 
Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 18:39:12 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 02 Aug 2018 13:09:03 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 02 Aug 2018 12:41:06 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 05:04:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 8/1/2018 9:50 PM,
wrote:
On Wed, 01 Aug 2018 20:46:44 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Aug 2018 13:50:39 -0400,
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Aug 2018 09:59:06 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 03:58:05 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:

John H
On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 22:04:39 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

- show quoted text -
If it won't pass the magnet test, it can't be fired at my local range (indoors).
.........

I still canÂ’t figure out that ruling.

Sparks.

Sparks? Really? In a place with massive muzzle blasts.

Yes. Really. No reason to **** you.


What are the sparks going to do that a dragons breath of flame 6 feet
long won't do?


As previously mentioned, a spark (as a source of ignition) can be much
hotter than a flame.


It is still unclear what is going to catch on fire.

===

Like you said, probably nothing, but some range folks have seized on
that as a secondary reason. The potential for backstop damage and
ricochet risk are no doubt first and foremost. Also, they can
probably get more for their recycled lead as an additional economic
reason.

I don't even think recycling the lead has anything to do with it
because when they smelt the lead, the steel and copper will float up
to the top to be skimmed off. My bullet making buddy did this all the
time when he was making bullets from scrap lead.
As I said earlier, the design of the trap mitigates ricochets. They
all ricochet into the belly of the trap.
I still say, it is just to protect his investment in the trap.
I know I chipped the 1/2" steel plates in mine when I was shooting
something too "hot" and that was just copper over lead. I am sure the
BiMetal is a bit harder than that.
I do wonder how much sparking you really get tho because that metal is
not really that hard. You can bugger it up quite a bit just grabbing
it with pliers to pull the bullet out. I usually think of sparks with
flint and hardened steel, like as hard as a file.

Russian 9MM BiMetal bullet
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Tula%209mm%20bullet.jpg


When I got shot in the service was a ricochet from a 38 off the target
frame. Outdoor police range in Novato near the base. Base had a rifle
range.


===

Did you get a Purple Heart or is that just for combat? A friend of
mine got a Purple Heart for what he claims was an accidental
discharge.


I think is only a combat injury. Or combat owie according to Mr. Heinz.



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