On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 17:04:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Ok. How do we "change" society?

Good question.
How do we convince a kid who grew up entitled, told he was special and
then was suddenly faced with the reality that all of his participation
trophies are worthless, his education does not qualify him for a
decent job, the world doesn't owe him anything and his future is
bleak, that there is a good reason why he should not die in a hail of
bullets after showing the world he does have power.
The despair pretty much defines all of the terrorists and mass
shooters, snowflakes or not.
Bob Dylan summed it up "When you got nothin, you got nothin to lose"
Maybe we just convince them that they are braver if they just shoot
themselves in the head at home and leave us a note/video about how
many lives they just saved

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:14:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:33:58 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/22/18 11:24 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:57:24 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/21/18 9:51 PM, wrote:

Everyone still seems to avoid the fact that this is a kid problem, not
a gun problem. When I was in K-12 lots of kids had easy access to
guns. We were hunting at 14 and this was within a mile of the DC line,
not wyoming. Nobody shot anyone. It was not even in our wildest scope
of thought.


It is a societal problem, exacerbated by the easy availability of most
high-powered firearms. Even in Maryland, there is no state background
check for a long gun, or even a waiting period. You just have to be 21.
And, of course, a long gun sale from one private owner to another in
this state doesn't require any state paperwork.

Tell you a secret. I got rid of my "high-powered" rifles, the Colt and
the Ruger, because they bored me. Basically, my target shooting is
limited to 100 yards unless I want to take a 2-1/2 hour drive out to the
Shenandoah. I don't need superfast, superloud .223 rounds and their
expense and noise to hit easily hit dead .targets at 100 yards or less.
A .22LR, a 9 mm, or a .357 MAG will do that job nicely.

That is simply rationalizing. Plenty of mass shootings have happened
with 9mms, usually pistols but your assault rifle would do just fine.
The "military style" thing is really a red herring. Your CZ is
certainly "military style" and they will sell you a tactical style
stock for just about anything. You can certainly make a very
"military" looking weapon out of a Mini14 or even a 10-22.


What part is "rationalizing"? The AR-15 is the school shoot up weapon of
choice. Any idiot can buy a long gun privately in many parts of this
country without any background check or waiting period. I didn't mention
"military style." You did.


Richard is stuck on the military thing, along with most of the left.


Yes, I am sure some moron can shoot up a school with a CZ Scorpion, but
a $900 9mm rifle is not a weapon of choice for that sort of "fun."

If that is what they had, that is what they would use. The Columbine
boys used a similar Hi Point carbine.


I am not stuck on the "military thing". The military should have the
most lethal weapons available.

I am stuck on military type AR-15s available for civilian purchase
because they have a record of being the weapons of choice for these mass
shootings more often than not. I don't know why they hold such a
fascination for nut cases who want to go kill a bunch of people but they
do. Maybe it's because they are cheap, heavily marketed and available
as you have pointed out.


===

I think the high capacity magazines have a lot to do with it, along
with relatively small size, high power and reliability.

---
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On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 18:01:43 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

It is the Libertarian philosophy...don't do anything.

As opposed to the democrat philosophy, look like you are doing
something but be totally ineffective.

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 18:07:07 -0800 (PST), True North
wrote:

On Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:58:50 UTC-4, Its Me wrote:
snip...
If you want to lessen the ability of sick people to do these types of mass shootings, you'll have to strip all firearms from the US. Every long gun, pistol, shotgun... everything. It'll take decades.
snip...


Bingo! Now you're finally talking sense...didn't know y'all had it in you.
Simple fact...too many Americans just can't be trusted with firearms so the rest of y'all have to suffer for the common good.

How do you do that? We also have a 5th amendment that says the
government can't just "take" things without just compensation and the
6th amendment says they need to use due process. Even if they could
repeal the second amendment, you still have those nagging problems.

On Thursday, February 22, 2018 at 9:07:08 PM UTC-5, True North wrote:
On Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:58:50 UTC-4, Its Me wrote:
snip...
If you want to lessen the ability of sick people to do these types of mass shootings, you'll have to strip all firearms from the US. Every long gun, pistol, shotgun... everything. It'll take decades.
snip...


Bingo! Now you're finally talking sense...didn't know y'all had it in you.
Simple fact...too many Americans just can't be trusted with firearms so the rest of y'all have to suffer for the common good.

It's obvious that most 'nadians can't be trusted with firearms. They've already been taken from you.

On Thursday, February 22, 2018 at 10:43:30 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 16:44:05 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 15:22:50 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:14:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:33:58 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/22/18 11:24 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:57:24 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/21/18 9:51 PM, wrote:

Everyone still seems to avoid the fact that this is a kid problem, not
a gun problem. When I was in K-12 lots of kids had easy access to
guns. We were hunting at 14 and this was within a mile of the DC line,
not wyoming. Nobody shot anyone. It was not even in our wildest scope
of thought.


It is a societal problem, exacerbated by the easy availability of most
high-powered firearms. Even in Maryland, there is no state background
check for a long gun, or even a waiting period. You just have to be 21.
And, of course, a long gun sale from one private owner to another in
this state doesn't require any state paperwork.

Tell you a secret. I got rid of my "high-powered" rifles, the Colt and
the Ruger, because they bored me. Basically, my target shooting is
limited to 100 yards unless I want to take a 2-1/2 hour drive out to the
Shenandoah. I don't need superfast, superloud .223 rounds and their
expense and noise to hit easily hit dead .targets at 100 yards or less.
A .22LR, a 9 mm, or a .357 MAG will do that job nicely.

That is simply rationalizing. Plenty of mass shootings have happened
with 9mms, usually pistols but your assault rifle would do just fine.
The "military style" thing is really a red herring. Your CZ is
certainly "military style" and they will sell you a tactical style
stock for just about anything. You can certainly make a very
"military" looking weapon out of a Mini14 or even a 10-22.


What part is "rationalizing"? The AR-15 is the school shoot up weapon of
choice. Any idiot can buy a long gun privately in many parts of this
country without any background check or waiting period. I didn't mention
"military style." You did.


Richard is stuck on the military thing, along with most of the left.


Yes, I am sure some moron can shoot up a school with a CZ Scorpion, but
a $900 9mm rifle is not a weapon of choice for that sort of "fun."

If that is what they had, that is what they would use. The Columbine
boys used a similar Hi Point carbine.


I am not stuck on the "military thing". The military should have the
most lethal weapons available.

I am stuck on military type AR-15s available for civilian purchase
because they have a record of being the weapons of choice for these mass
shootings more often than not. I don't know why they hold such a
fascination for nut cases who want to go kill a bunch of people but they
do. Maybe it's because they are cheap, heavily marketed and available
as you have pointed out.

If restricting their sales would reduce the cowardly mass shooting of
innocent people, including children by making them less desirable, I am
all for it.


First off "banning" something just makes it more desirable not less
but if every AR in the country disappeared, a person who wanted to
kill a lot of people would buy a cheap AK47 clone or a Mini 14. That
is basically the same gun down range. The AK actually shoots a bigger
bullet but the ammo is just as cheap and there are plenty of
magazines, up to 100 rounds or so. That was the evil gun in 1993-4. It
just fell out of favor.
I bet in the private market they were not getting more than $250 300
for them a couple weeks ago but I am sure they are more now.
You really don't see a lot of those old thumb hole models around but
they sold a couple million during the ban so I am sure there are
plenty gathering dust somewhere.

Would restricting their sale make the anti-gun crowd happier? Yes. It's not a matter of prevention,
it's a matter of perception.

How do you really restrict the sale of existing guns? If you simply
say they are not legally transferable, a lot of people would sell them
under the table. Most people are not going to just throw away several
hundred dollars for an AK/AR or well over a thousand for my M1A.
Actually there are AR platforms that are well over a thousand too.

A basic "starter kit" AR is $400-500. You have to assemble it (the lower). A good assembled AR is about $1000.

Building one is easy. Once you've done it, you can build a lower in ~20 minutes. The upper, if you have the couple of tools required, shouldn't take more than that.

Alex
- show quoted text -
I have an IWI Tavor that, to me, looks nicer and is more ergonomic:

https://iwi.us/product/tavor-sar-556-w16-barrel/
.....

Could be and I won’t dispute that. But there’s several bullpups that closely resemble each other. Mine is deffinately different. That’s why I got it. Though they’re a bit longer, I always wanted an enfield SA80 or L85 but they’re almost impossible to get especially for civilian use.

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 20:44:53 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

A basic "starter kit" AR is $400-500. You have to assemble it (the lower). A good assembled AR is about $1000.

Building one is easy. Once you've done it, you can build a lower in ~20 minutes. The upper, if you have the couple of tools required, shouldn't take more than that.

Rural King will sell you a S&W M&P for $500 ready to go, no assembly
necessary. I even see them less on sale occasionally.

On 2/22/18 10:58 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 17:04:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Ok. How do we "change" society?

Good question.
How do we convince a kid who grew up entitled, told he was special and
then was suddenly faced with the reality that all of his participation
trophies are worthless, his education does not qualify him for a
decent job, the world doesn't owe him anything and his future is
bleak, that there is a good reason why he should not die in a hail of
bullets after showing the world he does have power.


Take him to a Libertarian pep rally.

On 2/22/18 9:01 PM, True North wrote:
On Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:50:48 UTC-4, Alex wrote:
Tim wrote:
Mr. Luddite
- show quoted text -
Why are the AR-15 style rifles the most popular weapon being sold in the
USA today?

.....

Because they “play the part�. Light and accurate.

Though I consider my Steyr AUG a superior weapon, nobody wants one of those Star Wars looking things. But the ease of disassembly and barrel interchange is attractive if you wanna be “tactical�. I like it...

But the AR is “Made in USA “ and the platform for a host of different cartridges. And they look way cool compared to an AK-47/74

Anyhow, back to the Steyr...

https://sofrep.com/68224/steyr-aug-m...odular-rifles/


I have an IWI Tavor that, to me, looks nicer and is more ergonomic:

https://iwi.us/product/tavor-sar-556-w16-barrel/


Of course you do......


Just wait until Little Alex gets his mitts on one of these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0MytMHwzAM