|
AR-15 rifles
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 22:59:44 -0500, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:14:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/22/2018 1:21 PM, wrote: On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:33:58 -0500, Keyser Soze wrote: On 2/22/18 11:24 AM, wrote: On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:57:24 -0500, Keyser Soze wrote: On 2/21/18 9:51 PM, wrote: Everyone still seems to avoid the fact that this is a kid problem, not a gun problem. When I was in K-12 lots of kids had easy access to guns. We were hunting at 14 and this was within a mile of the DC line, not wyoming. Nobody shot anyone. It was not even in our wildest scope of thought. It is a societal problem, exacerbated by the easy availability of most high-powered firearms. Even in Maryland, there is no state background check for a long gun, or even a waiting period. You just have to be 21. And, of course, a long gun sale from one private owner to another in this state doesn't require any state paperwork. Tell you a secret. I got rid of my "high-powered" rifles, the Colt and the Ruger, because they bored me. Basically, my target shooting is limited to 100 yards unless I want to take a 2-1/2 hour drive out to the Shenandoah. I don't need superfast, superloud .223 rounds and their expense and noise to hit easily hit dead .targets at 100 yards or less. A .22LR, a 9 mm, or a .357 MAG will do that job nicely. That is simply rationalizing. Plenty of mass shootings have happened with 9mms, usually pistols but your assault rifle would do just fine. The "military style" thing is really a red herring. Your CZ is certainly "military style" and they will sell you a tactical style stock for just about anything. You can certainly make a very "military" looking weapon out of a Mini14 or even a 10-22. What part is "rationalizing"? The AR-15 is the school shoot up weapon of choice. Any idiot can buy a long gun privately in many parts of this country without any background check or waiting period. I didn't mention "military style." You did. Richard is stuck on the military thing, along with most of the left. Yes, I am sure some moron can shoot up a school with a CZ Scorpion, but a $900 9mm rifle is not a weapon of choice for that sort of "fun." If that is what they had, that is what they would use. The Columbine boys used a similar Hi Point carbine. I am not stuck on the "military thing". The military should have the most lethal weapons available. I am stuck on military type AR-15s available for civilian purchase because they have a record of being the weapons of choice for these mass shootings more often than not. I don't know why they hold such a fascination for nut cases who want to go kill a bunch of people but they do. Maybe it's because they are cheap, heavily marketed and available as you have pointed out. === I think the high capacity magazines have a lot to do with it, along with relatively small size, high power and reliability. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com I'd have no problem with outlawing them also. Again, I don't think it would be effective, but it would be 'perceived' as taking action. |
AR-15 rifles
|
AR-15 rifles
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 18:01:01 -0800 (PST), True North wrote:
On Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:50:48 UTC-4, Alex wrote: Tim wrote: Mr. Luddite - show quoted text - Why are the AR-15 style rifles the most popular weapon being sold in the USA today? ..... Because they “play the part”. Light and accurate. Though I consider my Steyr AUG a superior weapon, nobody wants one of those Star Wars looking things. But the ease of disassembly and barrel interchange is attractive if you wanna be “tactical”. I like it... But the AR is “Made in USA “ and the platform for a host of different cartridges. And they look way cool compared to an AK-47/74 Anyhow, back to the Steyr... https://sofrep.com/68224/steyr-aug-m...odular-rifles/ I have an IWI Tavor that, to me, looks nicer and is more ergonomic: https://iwi.us/product/tavor-sar-556-w16-barrel/ Of course you do...... Of course he does. It's part of a great collection of firearms. You guys aren't allowed to do that, remember? It's part of the way the 'anadian government restrains its citizens. |
AR-15 rifles
On 2/23/2018 8:01 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 22:59:44 -0500, wrote: On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:14:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/22/2018 1:21 PM, wrote: On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:33:58 -0500, Keyser Soze wrote: On 2/22/18 11:24 AM, wrote: On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:57:24 -0500, Keyser Soze wrote: On 2/21/18 9:51 PM, wrote: Everyone still seems to avoid the fact that this is a kid problem, not a gun problem. When I was in K-12 lots of kids had easy access to guns. We were hunting at 14 and this was within a mile of the DC line, not wyoming. Nobody shot anyone. It was not even in our wildest scope of thought. It is a societal problem, exacerbated by the easy availability of most high-powered firearms. Even in Maryland, there is no state background check for a long gun, or even a waiting period. You just have to be 21. And, of course, a long gun sale from one private owner to another in this state doesn't require any state paperwork. Tell you a secret. I got rid of my "high-powered" rifles, the Colt and the Ruger, because they bored me. Basically, my target shooting is limited to 100 yards unless I want to take a 2-1/2 hour drive out to the Shenandoah. I don't need superfast, superloud .223 rounds and their expense and noise to hit easily hit dead .targets at 100 yards or less. A .22LR, a 9 mm, or a .357 MAG will do that job nicely. That is simply rationalizing. Plenty of mass shootings have happened with 9mms, usually pistols but your assault rifle would do just fine. The "military style" thing is really a red herring. Your CZ is certainly "military style" and they will sell you a tactical style stock for just about anything. You can certainly make a very "military" looking weapon out of a Mini14 or even a 10-22. What part is "rationalizing"? The AR-15 is the school shoot up weapon of choice. Any idiot can buy a long gun privately in many parts of this country without any background check or waiting period. I didn't mention "military style." You did. Richard is stuck on the military thing, along with most of the left. Yes, I am sure some moron can shoot up a school with a CZ Scorpion, but a $900 9mm rifle is not a weapon of choice for that sort of "fun." If that is what they had, that is what they would use. The Columbine boys used a similar Hi Point carbine. I am not stuck on the "military thing". The military should have the most lethal weapons available. I am stuck on military type AR-15s available for civilian purchase because they have a record of being the weapons of choice for these mass shootings more often than not. I don't know why they hold such a fascination for nut cases who want to go kill a bunch of people but they do. Maybe it's because they are cheap, heavily marketed and available as you have pointed out. === I think the high capacity magazines have a lot to do with it, along with relatively small size, high power and reliability. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com I'd have no problem with outlawing them also. Again, I don't think it would be effective, but it would be 'perceived' as taking action. More than a ineffective perception, it might be the start of an awareness that not all guns are suitable or designed for civilian recreational use. It could be the beginning of a more rational attitude about firearms without risking 2nd Amendment "rights". I know this offends many here but I can't think of a legitimate use of a AK-15 style rifle by recreational shooters other than they are "COOL" to have and the government, in the interest of the rest of the population, can't do a damn thing about having one ... or two... or three. |
AR-15 rifles
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:12:13 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/22/2018 11:19 PM, wrote: On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 18:07:07 -0800 (PST), True North wrote: On Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:58:50 UTC-4, Its Me wrote: snip... If you want to lessen the ability of sick people to do these types of mass shootings, you'll have to strip all firearms from the US. Every long gun, pistol, shotgun... everything. It'll take decades. snip... Bingo! Now you're finally talking sense...didn't know y'all had it in you. Simple fact...too many Americans just can't be trusted with firearms so the rest of y'all have to suffer for the common good. How do you do that? We also have a 5th amendment that says the government can't just "take" things without just compensation and the 6th amendment says they need to use due process. Even if they could repeal the second amendment, you still have those nagging problems. Apparently states can as evidenced by the recent (Feb 1st) ban of bump stocks and trigger cranks in Massachusetts and the requirement within 90 days to turn over any existing bump stocks/trigger cranks to local or state police to be destroyed. No compensation and criminal prosecution including a $10,000 fine and/or subject to incarceration if caught with either or both after the 90 day period. Did you get one of these: http://blog.goal.org/wp-content/uplo...-LICENSEES.pdf The wording wouldn't require much changing to just require that you turn in your firearms. Perhaps that's one of the reasons the NRA is against the registration and/or licensing of firearms. |
AR-15 rifles
On 2/23/2018 8:31 AM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:12:13 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/22/2018 11:19 PM, wrote: On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 18:07:07 -0800 (PST), True North wrote: On Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:58:50 UTC-4, Its Me wrote: snip... If you want to lessen the ability of sick people to do these types of mass shootings, you'll have to strip all firearms from the US. Every long gun, pistol, shotgun... everything. It'll take decades. snip... Bingo! Now you're finally talking sense...didn't know y'all had it in you. Simple fact...too many Americans just can't be trusted with firearms so the rest of y'all have to suffer for the common good. How do you do that? We also have a 5th amendment that says the government can't just "take" things without just compensation and the 6th amendment says they need to use due process. Even if they could repeal the second amendment, you still have those nagging problems. Apparently states can as evidenced by the recent (Feb 1st) ban of bump stocks and trigger cranks in Massachusetts and the requirement within 90 days to turn over any existing bump stocks/trigger cranks to local or state police to be destroyed. No compensation and criminal prosecution including a $10,000 fine and/or subject to incarceration if caught with either or both after the 90 day period. Did you get one of these: http://blog.goal.org/wp-content/uplo...-LICENSEES.pdf The wording wouldn't require much changing to just require that you turn in your firearms. Perhaps that's one of the reasons the NRA is against the registration and/or licensing of firearms. Yup, received that letter last month. I think the legal thing is that bump stocks and trigger cranks are *not* considered firearms. They are accessories, much like a magazine of over 10 round capacity which are also banned. You cannot legally obtain a gun permit of any type or legally purchase or sell a firearm in Massachusetts without the transaction being registered with the state. Don't know if these MA laws have ever been challenged but they have been in force for longer than I've owned guns. Even private sales must be reported (you can do it on-line) to be within the law. It sorta goes back to that "chain of custody" discussion we've had in the past. If I sell a firearm privately (which I have done) it's in my best interests to report it as the law requires. If I don't and that firearm is ever used in a crime and is discovered, I would be the last registered owner and the cops would be banging on my door. |
AR-15 rifles
On 2/22/2018 8:58 PM, Its Me wrote:
On Thursday, February 22, 2018 at 5:04:57 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/22/2018 4:54 PM, Its Me wrote: On Thursday, February 22, 2018 at 3:59:32 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/22/2018 3:22 PM, wrote: On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:14:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/22/2018 1:21 PM, wrote: On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:33:58 -0500, Keyser Soze wrote: On 2/22/18 11:24 AM, wrote: On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:57:24 -0500, Keyser Soze wrote: On 2/21/18 9:51 PM, wrote: Everyone still seems to avoid the fact that this is a kid problem, not a gun problem. When I was in K-12 lots of kids had easy access to guns. We were hunting at 14 and this was within a mile of the DC line, not wyoming. Nobody shot anyone. It was not even in our wildest scope of thought. It is a societal problem, exacerbated by the easy availability of most high-powered firearms. Even in Maryland, there is no state background check for a long gun, or even a waiting period. You just have to be 21. And, of course, a long gun sale from one private owner to another in this state doesn't require any state paperwork. Tell you a secret. I got rid of my "high-powered" rifles, the Colt and the Ruger, because they bored me. Basically, my target shooting is limited to 100 yards unless I want to take a 2-1/2 hour drive out to the Shenandoah. I don't need superfast, superloud .223 rounds and their expense and noise to hit easily hit dead .targets at 100 yards or less. A .22LR, a 9 mm, or a .357 MAG will do that job nicely. That is simply rationalizing. Plenty of mass shootings have happened with 9mms, usually pistols but your assault rifle would do just fine. The "military style" thing is really a red herring. Your CZ is certainly "military style" and they will sell you a tactical style stock for just about anything. You can certainly make a very "military" looking weapon out of a Mini14 or even a 10-22. What part is "rationalizing"? The AR-15 is the school shoot up weapon of choice. Any idiot can buy a long gun privately in many parts of this country without any background check or waiting period. I didn't mention "military style." You did. Richard is stuck on the military thing, along with most of the left. Yes, I am sure some moron can shoot up a school with a CZ Scorpion, but a $900 9mm rifle is not a weapon of choice for that sort of "fun." If that is what they had, that is what they would use. The Columbine boys used a similar Hi Point carbine. I am not stuck on the "military thing". The military should have the most lethal weapons available. I am stuck on military type AR-15s available for civilian purchase because they have a record of being the weapons of choice for these mass shootings more often than not. I don't know why they hold such a fascination for nut cases who want to go kill a bunch of people but they do. Maybe it's because they are cheap, heavily marketed and available as you have pointed out. If restricting their sales would reduce the cowardly mass shooting of innocent people, including children by making them less desirable, I am all for it. First off "banning" something just makes it more desirable not less but if every AR in the country disappeared, a person who wanted to kill a lot of people would buy a cheap AK47 clone or a Mini 14. That is basically the same gun down range. The AK actually shoots a bigger bullet but the ammo is just as cheap and there are plenty of magazines, up to 100 rounds or so. That was the evil gun in 1993-4. It just fell out of favor. I bet in the private market they were not getting more than $250 300 for them a couple weeks ago but I am sure they are more now. You really don't see a lot of those old thumb hole models around but they sold a couple million during the ban so I am sure there are plenty gathering dust somewhere. So, give up, huh? I guess nothing can be done to prevent children from being murdered on a regular basis. I guess we just have to get used to it, right? I don't care about all the technical data on any particular weapon. The only thing I am interested in is which one is used most often in these mass killings. No need for them to be so easily obtained and used. You're parroting the anti-gun talking points. :) Nobody said to give up or to get used to it. Gregg did say, accurately, that the AR is just the darling of the moment, and if you magically eradicated them all the killers would just move on to something else. As stated before, a more effective weapon is a 12 gauge shotgun. You don't even have to be accurate, just point it in the general direction. Every blast sprays 8-12 00 buck pellets. You're not going to stop these senseless killings until you somehow change society. The AR didn't create these monsters, it's just their tool of choice at the moment. Ok. How do we "change" society? I don't know. If I did, I'd have more money than you. :) One thing is for sure... people killing people has gone on forever. Cain killed Able with a rock. It's a question we won't be able to answer on a NG that used to be about boating. But the other thing that's for sure... If you remove every single AR-15 from the planet tonight, this stuff will continue. That will not fix it.. it's not even a speed bump in the way of someone that wants to do this stuff. If you want to lessen the ability of sick people to do these types of mass shootings, you'll have to strip all firearms from the US. Every long gun, pistol, shotgun... everything. It'll take decades. Is that what we/you want? Or we could go after the actual perps... profile the people that do this stuff, be proactive in stopping them, start some "scared straight" programs in school that teach kids right from wrong (since the non-existent parents don't seem to), and maybe even nudge society back towards some conservative values. Having rap singers surrounded by half-clothed girls chanting lyrics like "Fu** cops, kill them all, death to America" doesn't seem to be working out that well, does it? But no, we can't profile kids that have repeatedly been in and out of trouble, has been in mental health treatments, and has even been reported to the FBI. Let's make sure we don't infringe on that asshole's life experience. Our society is sick. Making AR's slightly harder to get doesn't seem to me to be an effective solution. What's your's? I've offered mine ... although most here, including you, don't think much of it. I understand that. It's a tough problem to address with so many diverse opinions. I think it is good though that a civil discussion can be had (by most) without name calling, insults and snarky comments. That's how difficult issues are resolved. |
AR-15 rifles
On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 12:42:43 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 20:44:53 -0800 (PST), Its Me wrote: A basic "starter kit" AR is $400-500. You have to assemble it (the lower). A good assembled AR is about $1000. Building one is easy. Once you've done it, you can build a lower in ~20 minutes. The upper, if you have the couple of tools required, shouldn't take more than that. Rural King will sell you a S&W M&P for $500 ready to go, no assembly necessary. I even see them less on sale occasionally. The M&P Sport model is their least expensive and it retails for $739, with a street price of $600+. Rural King seems to be selling them for less than anyone else I've seen. |
AR-15 rifles
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:28:10 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/23/2018 8:01 AM, John H. wrote: On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 22:59:44 -0500, wrote: On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:14:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/22/2018 1:21 PM, wrote: On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:33:58 -0500, Keyser Soze wrote: On 2/22/18 11:24 AM, wrote: On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:57:24 -0500, Keyser Soze wrote: On 2/21/18 9:51 PM, wrote: Everyone still seems to avoid the fact that this is a kid problem, not a gun problem. When I was in K-12 lots of kids had easy access to guns. We were hunting at 14 and this was within a mile of the DC line, not wyoming. Nobody shot anyone. It was not even in our wildest scope of thought. It is a societal problem, exacerbated by the easy availability of most high-powered firearms. Even in Maryland, there is no state background check for a long gun, or even a waiting period. You just have to be 21. And, of course, a long gun sale from one private owner to another in this state doesn't require any state paperwork. Tell you a secret. I got rid of my "high-powered" rifles, the Colt and the Ruger, because they bored me. Basically, my target shooting is limited to 100 yards unless I want to take a 2-1/2 hour drive out to the Shenandoah. I don't need superfast, superloud .223 rounds and their expense and noise to hit easily hit dead .targets at 100 yards or less. A .22LR, a 9 mm, or a .357 MAG will do that job nicely. That is simply rationalizing. Plenty of mass shootings have happened with 9mms, usually pistols but your assault rifle would do just fine. The "military style" thing is really a red herring. Your CZ is certainly "military style" and they will sell you a tactical style stock for just about anything. You can certainly make a very "military" looking weapon out of a Mini14 or even a 10-22. What part is "rationalizing"? The AR-15 is the school shoot up weapon of choice. Any idiot can buy a long gun privately in many parts of this country without any background check or waiting period. I didn't mention "military style." You did. Richard is stuck on the military thing, along with most of the left. Yes, I am sure some moron can shoot up a school with a CZ Scorpion, but a $900 9mm rifle is not a weapon of choice for that sort of "fun." If that is what they had, that is what they would use. The Columbine boys used a similar Hi Point carbine. I am not stuck on the "military thing". The military should have the most lethal weapons available. I am stuck on military type AR-15s available for civilian purchase because they have a record of being the weapons of choice for these mass shootings more often than not. I don't know why they hold such a fascination for nut cases who want to go kill a bunch of people but they do. Maybe it's because they are cheap, heavily marketed and available as you have pointed out. === I think the high capacity magazines have a lot to do with it, along with relatively small size, high power and reliability. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com I'd have no problem with outlawing them also. Again, I don't think it would be effective, but it would be 'perceived' as taking action. More than a ineffective perception, it might be the start of an awareness that not all guns are suitable or designed for civilian recreational use. It could be the beginning of a more rational attitude about firearms without risking 2nd Amendment "rights". I know this offends many here but I can't think of a legitimate use of a AK-15 style rifle by recreational shooters other than they are "COOL" to have and the government, in the interest of the rest of the population, can't do a damn thing about having one ... or two... or three. That's fine. I'd go along with it. Who's offended? I just don't think it would be very effective. As long as they exist, the deviant Rambo wannabees will find a way to do their thing. Look how famous they become. |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:55 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 BoatBanter.com