On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 17:42:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/30/2017 5:37 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 05:16:35 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Rethinking my early morning Dunkin' Donuts run.

4 degrees F. right now with a wind chill of minus 5-10.



===

Yes. It's a chilly 68F here in SWFL right now, really too cool to use
the pool comfortably even if the water is warm. The rest of the week
doesn'y look much better but I'm going to try and take the dinghy out
for a spin tomorrow.



You guys really know how to rub it in.



===

Have you tried convincing your wife that the horses would be happier
here? It might really be true.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 15:19:29 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Well Don, if it makes you feel better, I don't do anything like that
kind of driving. If I put 100 miles a week on my truck, it's a lot.
So, I guess you could say that I am being environmentally friendly. :-)


You are a regular road warrior. My 97 Honda title says I had
86046 miles when I bought it in 2002 and the odometer reads
104200 tonight.
Granted the 10,000 wheel skipped one revolution and went half way the
second time so it is really more like 134200.
(BTW so much for Carfax. It is clear the odometer was diddled and they
said it checked out OK)

That is still only about 2400 miles a year.

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/29/2017 7:21 PM, Alex wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:

Rethinking my early morning Dunkin' Donuts run.

4 degrees F. right now with a wind chill of minus 5-10.


Got remote start on that Colorado?



Thankfully, yes. This morning I let it run through two complete, 10
minute warm up cycles before I ventured out. Temp had actually
dropped another degree to 3.

Below a certain temp the remote starter also automatically turns on
the seat heater which is nice. Makes a big difference!



Isn't technology great?

On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 16:13:01 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/30/2017 4:02 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 13:15:06 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Block heaters do make sense up in the frozen north. Where we vacation
in the western mountains, it is not unusual to see NEMA 5-15 plugs
sticking out of the grilles of cars. I assume that is for the heater.
I agree with Don. At anything below 0 F motor oil is going to be
molasses and not doing a lot of flowing/lubricating, even if it is
5wsumpin. I also wonder how well the oil in the rear axle and
transmission is working.

If you read stories about the Russian campaign in WWII, they even had
problems with lubrication in their small arms.



Even at 30-40 degrees the oil in a car isn't going to flow normally
until it warms up. Operating temp is what, about 195-205 degrees?

My Yamaha runs at 140 and I think the Merc was more like 120. They
still said run 10w30 if you were up north and 25w40 down south. I ran
straight 30HD pretty much the whole 3000 hours in the Merc. My boat
seldom gets started below 75 degrees tho.

My wife's former car ... a 2008 Mercury Mountaineer ... had close to
200,000 miles on it when she traded it in. It had a remote start that
she used pretty much every day during the winter months, even if the
temperature was above freezing. I used to warn her that it wasn't good
for the catalytic converter (as I had been told). The engine was
perfectly fine when she traded it as was the catalytic converter (still
had the original and still passed emission tests).

Isn't the "emission test" just scanning for codes these days?
I will agree cars have come a long way from the crap we drove around
before the 80s. At 100k miles, you might as well just take the tags
off and leave it smoking by the side of the road if you are not
prepared to rebuild it.
You needed a tune up every 10-15k miles and the old bias ply tires
were usually ready to go by then too.


In Massachusetts they still did the emissions test with the probe in the
tailpipe up until a few years ago. Forget exactly when they went to
reading codes only. But even with the codes, if your emissions are off,
you flunk. Usually it's just the oxygen sensor that goes bad.



I have never had a car that was tested. I had a 75 Monza that was
tricked up to the point that I knew it would never pass when PG
started testing so I "moved" to my nieces house in Charles county (on
paper) where they didn't test until I moved to Florida (one tag cycle)
but by then I traded the Monza anyway. Down here they never tested.

wrote:
On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 19:23:58 -0500, Alex wrote:

I've never turned on the heat in this house. If I did, I'm sure those
heating coils would stink like hell from non use.
When my wife was in the building and in the HVAC biz, that was a
regular call. She had people who had their air handler for 3 or 4
years and then had a fire because the tech left the book in there. It
took that long to turn it on. Mine has not been on since I built the
cabinet in the living room with the Dimplex electric fire place. The
1.4KW heater is all she ever needed, then only in the morning before I
get up.


I don't know how that could happen unless the book is placed inside the
air handler by the manufacturer. The installer shouldn't need the book.

CMU walls hold the heat well. We leave a bedroom window open at night
when it's 55-60º for the fresh air.

justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 12/29/2017 9:06 PM, True North wrote:
On Friday, 29 December 2017 20:32:03 UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/29/2017 7:21 PM, Alex wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
Rethinking my early morning Dunkin' Donuts run.

4 degrees F. right now with a wind chill of minus 5-10.

Got remote start on that Colorado?


Thankfully, yes. This morning I let it run through two complete, 10
minute warm up cycles before I ventured out. Temp had actually dropped
another degree to 3.

Below a certain temp the remote starter also automatically turns on the
seat heater which is nice. Makes a big difference!

From what I've read...warming up while sitting idling isn't good for the vehicle or the environment. They say it's better to drive away slowly for the first 5-10 minutes.
I have a dedicated long extension cord that I use to plug in the block heater. I bought an electric battery blanket also but haven't installed it yet.
An hour before I go anywhere on mornings below -10C, I throw the inside switch that controls 2 of my 3 outside plugs. The Highlander starts easily and warms up much faster.

Car manufacturers used to warn about idling a car for long periods
because it was bad for the catalytic converter. Don't know if that's
true anymore as remote starters in cold climates have become very
popular. I don't have a garage and when you use the remote start it
also turns on the windshield and rear window defroster full blast.
Without that benefit, I'd be sitting in the driveway for a while anyway
waiting to see where I was going.

In any event I only use it on these very cold mornings. My total drive
to and from the local Dunkin's is only 10 minutes and I like doing it
without freezing my ass off.


I wish I could remember to use my remote start when my car has
been baking under the hot Florida sun.

That what I use mine for. No need for the cold days but I have turned
on the heated seats when I get in. Leather can be cold even in temps
around 50º.

True North wrote:
On Saturday, 30 December 2017 08:29:43 UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/30/2017 7:05 AM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 12/29/2017 9:06 PM, True North wrote:
On Friday, 29 December 2017 20:32:03 UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/29/2017 7:21 PM, Alex wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
Rethinking my early morning Dunkin' Donuts run.

4 degrees F. right now with a wind chill of minus 5-10.

Got remote start on that Colorado?


Thankfully, yes. This morning I let it run through two complete, 10
minute warm up cycles before I ventured out. Temp had actually dropped
another degree to 3.

Below a certain temp the remote starter also automatically turns on the
seat heater which is nice. Makes a big difference!

From what I've read...warming up while sitting idling isn't good for the vehicle or the environment. They say it's better to drive away slowly for the first 5-10 minutes.
I have a dedicated long extension cord that I use to plug in the block heater. I bought an electric battery blanket also but haven't installed it yet.
An hour before I go anywhere on mornings below -10C, I throw the inside switch that controls 2 of my 3 outside plugs. The Highlander starts easily and warms up much faster.

Car manufacturers used to warn about idling a car for long periods
because it was bad for the catalytic converter. Don't know if that's
true anymore as remote starters in cold climates have become very
popular. I don't have a garage and when you use the remote start it
also turns on the windshield and rear window defroster full blast.
Without that benefit, I'd be sitting in the driveway for a while anyway
waiting to see where I was going.

In any event I only use it on these very cold mornings. My total drive
to and from the local Dunkin's is only 10 minutes and I like doing it
without freezing my ass off.


I wish I could remember to use my remote start when my car has
been baking under the hot Florida sun.


I became curious again after reading Don's comments about remote
starters and read several reviews and query's regarding if their use to
warm up the engine for a bit before driving in extreme cold weather is
bad for the car. Turns out, it's a myth, based on older engine
technology.

In reality, warming the engine up a bit before driving is actually
better for the engine than just starting it and driving slowly. If you
do the latter, the engine is actually working harder than normal under
load, is using more gas and is less efficient emission control wise than
if you let it warm up a bit at idle under little load.

I wouldn't bother with block heaters unless I had a diesel.
My purpose is to lessen engine wear due to cold starting and the problem with thicker oil trying to coat and apply lubrication to frozen internal parts. I believe the block heater helps with this. I'm more interested in the long engine life of my vehicles than my own comfort.
On the other hand I do try to dress properly when going out in temperatures lower than -8 C. That is..undershirt, flannel shirt, fleece layer and winter coat. Even wear mitts if walking the dog.

The correct oil with have the right viscosity in cold temps.

True North wrote:
On Saturday, 30 December 2017 11:10:40 UTC-4, justan wrote:
True North Wrote in message:
On Saturday, 30 December 2017 08:29:43 UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/30/2017 7:05 AM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 12/29/2017 9:06 PM, True North wrote:
On Friday, 29 December 2017 20:32:03 UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/29/2017 7:21 PM, Alex wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
Rethinking my early morning Dunkin' Donuts run.

4 degrees F. right now with a wind chill of minus 5-10.

Got remote start on that Colorado?


Thankfully, yes. This morning I let it run through two complete, 10
minute warm up cycles before I ventured out. Temp had actually dropped
another degree to 3.

Below a certain temp the remote starter also automatically turns on the
seat heater which is nice. Makes a big difference!

From what I've read...warming up while sitting idling isn't good for the vehicle or the environment. They say it's better to drive away slowly for the first 5-10 minutes.
I have a dedicated long extension cord that I use to plug in the block heater. I bought an electric battery blanket also but haven't installed it yet.
An hour before I go anywhere on mornings below -10C, I throw the inside switch that controls 2 of my 3 outside plugs. The Highlander starts easily and warms up much faster.

Car manufacturers used to warn about idling a car for long periods
because it was bad for the catalytic converter. Don't know if that's
true anymore as remote starters in cold climates have become very
popular. I don't have a garage and when you use the remote start it
also turns on the windshield and rear window defroster full blast.
Without that benefit, I'd be sitting in the driveway for a while anyway
waiting to see where I was going.

In any event I only use it on these very cold mornings. My total drive
to and from the local Dunkin's is only 10 minutes and I like doing it
without freezing my ass off.


I wish I could remember to use my remote start when my car has
been baking under the hot Florida sun.


I became curious again after reading Don's comments about remote
starters and read several reviews and query's regarding if their use to
warm up the engine for a bit before driving in extreme cold weather is
bad for the car. Turns out, it's a myth, based on older engine
technology.

In reality, warming the engine up a bit before driving is actually
better for the engine than just starting it and driving slowly. If you
do the latter, the engine is actually working harder than normal under
load, is using more gas and is less efficient emission control wise than
if you let it warm up a bit at idle under little load.

I wouldn't bother with block heaters unless I had a diesel.
My purpose is to lessen engine wear due to cold starting and the problem with thicker oil trying to coat and apply lubrication to frozen internal parts. I believe the block heater helps with this. I'm more interested in the long engine life of my vehicles than my own comfort.
On the other hand I do try to dress properly when going out in temperatures lower than -8 C. That is..undershirt, flannel shirt, fleece layer and winter coat. Even wear mitts if walking the dog.

Machines are meant to serve man, not vice versa.
--
x


Yeah...you tell it that when you're forking out hard earned cash for maintenance and repairs.

I lease so my vehicles are never out of warranty.

On 12/30/2017 8:41 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 16:13:01 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/30/2017 4:02 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 13:15:06 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Block heaters do make sense up in the frozen north. Where we vacation
in the western mountains, it is not unusual to see NEMA 5-15 plugs
sticking out of the grilles of cars. I assume that is for the heater.
I agree with Don. At anything below 0 F motor oil is going to be
molasses and not doing a lot of flowing/lubricating, even if it is
5wsumpin. I also wonder how well the oil in the rear axle and
transmission is working.

If you read stories about the Russian campaign in WWII, they even had
problems with lubrication in their small arms.



Even at 30-40 degrees the oil in a car isn't going to flow normally
until it warms up. Operating temp is what, about 195-205 degrees?

My Yamaha runs at 140 and I think the Merc was more like 120. They
still said run 10w30 if you were up north and 25w40 down south. I ran
straight 30HD pretty much the whole 3000 hours in the Merc. My boat
seldom gets started below 75 degrees tho.

My wife's former car ... a 2008 Mercury Mountaineer ... had close to
200,000 miles on it when she traded it in. It had a remote start that
she used pretty much every day during the winter months, even if the
temperature was above freezing. I used to warn her that it wasn't good
for the catalytic converter (as I had been told). The engine was
perfectly fine when she traded it as was the catalytic converter (still
had the original and still passed emission tests).

Isn't the "emission test" just scanning for codes these days?
I will agree cars have come a long way from the crap we drove around
before the 80s. At 100k miles, you might as well just take the tags
off and leave it smoking by the side of the road if you are not
prepared to rebuild it.
You needed a tune up every 10-15k miles and the old bias ply tires
were usually ready to go by then too.


In Massachusetts they still did the emissions test with the probe in the
tailpipe up until a few years ago. Forget exactly when they went to
reading codes only. But even with the codes, if your emissions are off,
you flunk. Usually it's just the oxygen sensor that goes bad.



I have never had a car that was tested. I had a 75 Monza that was
tricked up to the point that I knew it would never pass when PG
started testing so I "moved" to my nieces house in Charles county (on
paper) where they didn't test until I moved to Florida (one tag cycle)
but by then I traded the Monza anyway. Down here they never tested.



That really surprised me when we were in Florida. I bought a used Ford
Ranger from a dealer to beat around in. I registered it in Florida and
got insurance from Allstate. The agent at Allstate told me I had to
have it inspected first and I assumed that meant a safety/emissions test
like up here in MA. Turns out it was just a check to make sure there
was no body damage that I could try to claim with Allstate. No safety
or emission tests in Florida.

True North wrote:
On Saturday, 30 December 2017 11:33:19 UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/30/2017 10:10 AM, justan wrote:
True North Wrote in message:
On Saturday, 30 December 2017 08:29:43 UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/30/2017 7:05 AM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 12/29/2017 9:06 PM, True North wrote:
On Friday, 29 December 2017 20:32:03 UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/29/2017 7:21 PM, Alex wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
Rethinking my early morning Dunkin' Donuts run.

4 degrees F. right now with a wind chill of minus 5-10.

Got remote start on that Colorado?


Thankfully, yes. This morning I let it run through two complete, 10
minute warm up cycles before I ventured out. Temp had actually dropped
another degree to 3.

Below a certain temp the remote starter also automatically turns on the
seat heater which is nice. Makes a big difference!

From what I've read...warming up while sitting idling isn't good for the vehicle or the environment. They say it's better to drive away slowly for the first 5-10 minutes.
I have a dedicated long extension cord that I use to plug in the block heater. I bought an electric battery blanket also but haven't installed it yet.
An hour before I go anywhere on mornings below -10C, I throw the inside switch that controls 2 of my 3 outside plugs. The Highlander starts easily and warms up much faster.

Car manufacturers used to warn about idling a car for long periods
because it was bad for the catalytic converter. Don't know if that's
true anymore as remote starters in cold climates have become very
popular. I don't have a garage and when you use the remote start it
also turns on the windshield and rear window defroster full blast.
Without that benefit, I'd be sitting in the driveway for a while anyway
waiting to see where I was going.

In any event I only use it on these very cold mornings. My total drive
to and from the local Dunkin's is only 10 minutes and I like doing it
without freezing my ass off.


I wish I could remember to use my remote start when my car has
been baking under the hot Florida sun.


I became curious again after reading Don's comments about remote
starters and read several reviews and query's regarding if their use to
warm up the engine for a bit before driving in extreme cold weather is
bad for the car. Turns out, it's a myth, based on older engine
technology.

In reality, warming the engine up a bit before driving is actually
better for the engine than just starting it and driving slowly. If you
do the latter, the engine is actually working harder than normal under
load, is using more gas and is less efficient emission control wise than
if you let it warm up a bit at idle under little load.

I wouldn't bother with block heaters unless I had a diesel.
My purpose is to lessen engine wear due to cold starting and the problem with thicker oil trying to coat and apply lubrication to frozen internal parts. I believe the block heater helps with this. I'm more interested in the long engine life of my vehicles than my own comfort.
On the other hand I do try to dress properly when going out in temperatures lower than -8 C. That is..undershirt, flannel shirt, fleece layer and winter coat. Even wear mitts if walking the dog.

Machines are meant to serve man, not vice versa.


If I went to all that trouble to run down to Dunkin's to get coffee, I
may as well ride one of Mrs.E's horses.

I like being warm.
Short trips in cold weather used to be hard on a vehicles exhaust system. Not sure with the better quality stainless materials used today. I'd stay home and make my own coffee

The exhaust system? Where did you read that?