On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 07:39:52 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Saturday, December 30, 2017 at 10:20:36 AM UTC-5, justan wrote:
True North Wrote in message:
On Saturday, 30 December 2017 08:02:21 UTC-4, justan wrote:
True North Wrote in message:
On Friday, 29 December 2017 20:32:03 UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/29/2017 7:21 PM, Alex wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:

Rethinking my early morning Dunkin' Donuts run.

4 degrees F. right now with a wind chill of minus 5-10.


Got remote start on that Colorado?



Thankfully, yes. This morning I let it run through two complete, 10
minute warm up cycles before I ventured out. Temp had actually dropped
another degree to 3.

Below a certain temp the remote starter also automatically turns on the
seat heater which is nice. Makes a big difference!

From what I've read...warming up while sitting idling isn't good for the vehicle or the environment. They say it's better to drive away slowly for the first 5-10 minutes.
I have a dedicated long extension cord that I use to plug in the block heater. I bought an electric battery blanket also but haven't installed it yet.
An hour before I go anywhere on mornings below -10C, I throw the inside switch that controls 2 of my 3 outside plugs. The Highlander starts easily and warms up much faster.


None of my local auto parts stores sell block heaters or electric
battery blankets. Did you get yours on line?
--
x


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Every half decent auto parts or hardware store carries block heaters.
When I bought the RAV4 in 2009, I insisted that they throw in a block heater along with other accessories. My 2013 Highlander already came equipped with one.


Fraid not. In fact, it's difficult to find a snow shovel south of
the Mason/Dixon line.

I'll never forget when I first travelled up north in the winter years ago on business. I walked into a home improvement type store one evening to pick up some supplies, and there was a big display up front of snow shovels. I'd never even seen one in person until then. I'm not sure I could find one locally if I tried. No need. Same for block heaters or battery blankets.

As close as you can get here to a snow shovel is a big coal shovel
type thing they use to move animal feed. I do have one in case it did
snow here. Until then it is just for sand and fine aggregates.

Wrote in message:
On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 10:20:34 -0500 (EST), justan wrote:

Every half decent auto parts or hardware store carries block heaters.
When I bought the RAV4 in 2009, I insisted that they throw in a block heater along with other accessories. My 2013 Highlander already came equipped with one.


Fraid not. In fact, it's difficult to find a snow shovel south of
the Mason/Dixon line.
--

That would really be south of the Ga/Fl state line on the snow shovel
but true about block heaters.
I had to get an Indiana inlaw send me one of those Lexan ice scrapers
for cleaning barnacles off my boat (before I put in the lift).


I went looking for a shovel or ice chipper in Chesapeke Va. A
local told me I wouldn't find anything of the sort around them
thar parts. " They just wait for the melt".
--
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Wrote in message:
On 30 Dec 2017 15:41:38 GMT, Keyser Soze wrote:


Fraid not. In fact, it's difficult to find a snow shovel south of
the Mason/Dixon line.

More of your ignorance. Look up Masons and Dixons Line and get back to us
when you figure out its boundaries.

It is a common mistake. Most people do not know Md and DC are below
the Mason Dixon. In fact it really had little to do with the civil war
at all. It was to settle a property dispute 100 years earlier.
James Taylor and Mark Knopfler have a great song about it.
Beautiful guitar work
"Sailing to Philadelphia"


Actually , I remember crossing that line on I 81 in Md. Tracing
the line doesn't concern me. Southern Md. Is to me, as backward
as Appalachia.
--
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On 12/30/17 3:01 PM, wrote:
On 30 Dec 2017 15:41:38 GMT, Keyser Soze wrote:


Fraid not. In fact, it's difficult to find a snow shovel south of
the Mason/Dixon line.

More of your ignorance. Look up Mason’s and Dixon’s Line and get back to us
when you figure out its boundaries.

It is a common mistake. Most people do not know Md and DC are below
the Mason Dixon. In fact it really had little to do with the civil war
at all. It was to settle a property dispute 100 years earlier.
James Taylor and Mark Knopfler have a great song about it.
Beautiful guitar work
"Sailing to Philadelphia"


Some of us were readers and paid attention to American History in junior
high.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxLo4exz8bo

On 12/30/2017 2:16 PM, True North wrote:
On Saturday, 30 December 2017 14:59:21 UTC-4, John H wrote:
On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 10:29:28 -0800 (PST), True North wrote:

On Saturday, 30 December 2017 13:33:29 UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 02:35:31 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/29/2017 9:06 PM, True North wrote:
On Friday, 29 December 2017 20:32:03 UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/29/2017 7:21 PM, Alex wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:

Rethinking my early morning Dunkin' Donuts run.

4 degrees F. right now with a wind chill of minus 5-10.


Got remote start on that Colorado?



Thankfully, yes. This morning I let it run through two complete, 10
minute warm up cycles before I ventured out. Temp had actually dropped
another degree to 3.

Below a certain temp the remote starter also automatically turns on the
seat heater which is nice. Makes a big difference!



From what I've read...warming up while sitting idling isn't good for the vehicle or the environment. They say it's better to drive away slowly for the first 5-10 minutes.
I have a dedicated long extension cord that I use to plug in the block heater. I bought an electric battery blanket also but haven't installed it yet.
An hour before I go anywhere on mornings below -10C, I throw the inside switch that controls 2 of my 3 outside plugs. The Highlander starts easily and warms up much faster.


Car manufacturers used to warn about idling a car for long periods
because it was bad for the catalytic converter. Don't know if that's
true anymore as remote starters in cold climates have become very
popular. I don't have a garage and when you use the remote start it
also turns on the windshield and rear window defroster full blast.
Without that benefit, I'd be sitting in the driveway for a while anyway
waiting to see where I was going.

In any event I only use it on these very cold mornings. My total drive
to and from the local Dunkin's is only 10 minutes and I like doing it
without freezing my ass off.

I can see why the rest of the world is ****ed at Americans. You ran
your car for a half hour to take a 10 minute drive for a cup of coffee
and a doughnut. Maybe Uber should deliver doughnuts ;-)

Bingo!
Up here money is a little harder to come by...is worth less and we're taxed higher on it. Items also cost more...from the original vehicle purchase to gasoline. It's very prudent and thrifty to think twice about wasting it.
"Waste not...want not!"

Don, why are you ragging him about getting coffee? I'll bet you burn much more fuel just getting
your Bayliner up on plane! Do you consider that a 'waste'?

Not "ragging him" on getting coffee, I'm simply pointing out the benefits of a block heater over an automatic starter.
Actually, one of my brother-in-laws is very similar to Richard. He had a successful company, retired but can't sleep so he's out the door in the wee hours. Even travels 100 miles each way to supervise his son's projects in various small communities around the province at no pay. He gets medical coverage instead. He's the guy who bought a Kubota tractor to work on the piece of property he bought his son on a nearby large lake.
And yes...he was given a remote starter this Christmas for his Toyota Tacoma truck.



Well Don, if it makes you feel better, I don't do anything like that
kind of driving. If I put 100 miles a week on my truck, it's a lot.
So, I guess you could say that I am being environmentally friendly. :-)

On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 13:15:06 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Block heaters do make sense up in the frozen north. Where we vacation
in the western mountains, it is not unusual to see NEMA 5-15 plugs
sticking out of the grilles of cars. I assume that is for the heater.
I agree with Don. At anything below 0 F motor oil is going to be
molasses and not doing a lot of flowing/lubricating, even if it is
5wsumpin. I also wonder how well the oil in the rear axle and
transmission is working.

If you read stories about the Russian campaign in WWII, they even had
problems with lubrication in their small arms.



Even at 30-40 degrees the oil in a car isn't going to flow normally
until it warms up. Operating temp is what, about 195-205 degrees?

My Yamaha runs at 140 and I think the Merc was more like 120. They
still said run 10w30 if you were up north and 25w40 down south. I ran
straight 30HD pretty much the whole 3000 hours in the Merc. My boat
seldom gets started below 75 degrees tho.

My wife's former car ... a 2008 Mercury Mountaineer ... had close to
200,000 miles on it when she traded it in. It had a remote start that
she used pretty much every day during the winter months, even if the
temperature was above freezing. I used to warn her that it wasn't good
for the catalytic converter (as I had been told). The engine was
perfectly fine when she traded it as was the catalytic converter (still
had the original and still passed emission tests).

Isn't the "emission test" just scanning for codes these days?
I will agree cars have come a long way from the crap we drove around
before the 80s. At 100k miles, you might as well just take the tags
off and leave it smoking by the side of the road if you are not
prepared to rebuild it.
You needed a tune up every 10-15k miles and the old bias ply tires
were usually ready to go by then too.

On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 11:16:39 -0800 (PST), True North wrote:

On Saturday, 30 December 2017 14:59:21 UTC-4, John H wrote:
On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 10:29:28 -0800 (PST), True North wrote:

On Saturday, 30 December 2017 13:33:29 UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 02:35:31 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/29/2017 9:06 PM, True North wrote:
On Friday, 29 December 2017 20:32:03 UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/29/2017 7:21 PM, Alex wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:

Rethinking my early morning Dunkin' Donuts run.

4 degrees F. right now with a wind chill of minus 5-10.


Got remote start on that Colorado?



Thankfully, yes. This morning I let it run through two complete, 10
minute warm up cycles before I ventured out. Temp had actually dropped
another degree to 3.

Below a certain temp the remote starter also automatically turns on the
seat heater which is nice. Makes a big difference!



From what I've read...warming up while sitting idling isn't good for the vehicle or the environment. They say it's better to drive away slowly for the first 5-10 minutes.
I have a dedicated long extension cord that I use to plug in the block heater. I bought an electric battery blanket also but haven't installed it yet.
An hour before I go anywhere on mornings below -10C, I throw the inside switch that controls 2 of my 3 outside plugs. The Highlander starts easily and warms up much faster.


Car manufacturers used to warn about idling a car for long periods
because it was bad for the catalytic converter. Don't know if that's
true anymore as remote starters in cold climates have become very
popular. I don't have a garage and when you use the remote start it
also turns on the windshield and rear window defroster full blast.
Without that benefit, I'd be sitting in the driveway for a while anyway
waiting to see where I was going.

In any event I only use it on these very cold mornings. My total drive
to and from the local Dunkin's is only 10 minutes and I like doing it
without freezing my ass off.

I can see why the rest of the world is ****ed at Americans. You ran
your car for a half hour to take a 10 minute drive for a cup of coffee
and a doughnut. Maybe Uber should deliver doughnuts ;-)

Bingo!
Up here money is a little harder to come by...is worth less and we're taxed higher on it. Items also cost more...from the original vehicle purchase to gasoline. It's very prudent and thrifty to think twice about wasting it.
"Waste not...want not!"

Don, why are you ragging him about getting coffee? I'll bet you burn much more fuel just getting
your Bayliner up on plane! Do you consider that a 'waste'?

Not "ragging him" on getting coffee, I'm simply pointing out the benefits of a block heater over an automatic starter.
Actually, one of my brother-in-laws is very similar to Richard. He had a successful company, retired but can't sleep so he's out the door in the wee hours. Even travels 100 miles each way to supervise his son's projects in various small communities around the province at no pay. He gets medical coverage instead. He's the guy who bought a Kubota tractor to work on the piece of property he bought his son on a nearby large lake.
And yes...he was given a remote starter this Christmas for his Toyota Tacoma truck.


Oh. When I read this, "Up here money is a little harder to come by...is worth less and we're taxed
higher on it. Items also cost more...from the original vehicle purchase to gasoline. It's very
prudent and thrifty to think twice about wasting it.
"Waste not...want not!", it seemed as though you were talking about wasting gas, not the benefits of
a block heater.

In any case, do you consider getting your Bayliner on plane a 'waste'?

On 12/30/2017 4:02 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 13:15:06 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Block heaters do make sense up in the frozen north. Where we vacation
in the western mountains, it is not unusual to see NEMA 5-15 plugs
sticking out of the grilles of cars. I assume that is for the heater.
I agree with Don. At anything below 0 F motor oil is going to be
molasses and not doing a lot of flowing/lubricating, even if it is
5wsumpin. I also wonder how well the oil in the rear axle and
transmission is working.

If you read stories about the Russian campaign in WWII, they even had
problems with lubrication in their small arms.



Even at 30-40 degrees the oil in a car isn't going to flow normally
until it warms up. Operating temp is what, about 195-205 degrees?

My Yamaha runs at 140 and I think the Merc was more like 120. They
still said run 10w30 if you were up north and 25w40 down south. I ran
straight 30HD pretty much the whole 3000 hours in the Merc. My boat
seldom gets started below 75 degrees tho.

My wife's former car ... a 2008 Mercury Mountaineer ... had close to
200,000 miles on it when she traded it in. It had a remote start that
she used pretty much every day during the winter months, even if the
temperature was above freezing. I used to warn her that it wasn't good
for the catalytic converter (as I had been told). The engine was
perfectly fine when she traded it as was the catalytic converter (still
had the original and still passed emission tests).

Isn't the "emission test" just scanning for codes these days?
I will agree cars have come a long way from the crap we drove around
before the 80s. At 100k miles, you might as well just take the tags
off and leave it smoking by the side of the road if you are not
prepared to rebuild it.
You needed a tune up every 10-15k miles and the old bias ply tires
were usually ready to go by then too.


In Massachusetts they still did the emissions test with the probe in the
tailpipe up until a few years ago. Forget exactly when they went to
reading codes only. But even with the codes, if your emissions are off,
you flunk. Usually it's just the oxygen sensor that goes bad.

On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 13:28:55 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 12:33:23 -0500, wrote:

I can see why the rest of the world is ****ed at Americans. You ran
your car for a half hour to take a 10 minute drive for a cup of coffee
and a doughnut. Maybe Uber should deliver doughnuts ;-)

Would that Uber guy be saving a lot of resources?

He is already on the road and the car is warmed up.

On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 13:43:17 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 12/30/17 1:40 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

I can't argue the merits of not wasting but really Don ... how much gas
do you think my truck burns at idle for 10 minutes for maybe 20 days of
the year?Â* Not much.Â* I could probably burn more in one day during the
summer towing a Bayliner to the launch ramp and back.Â*Â* :-)



No garage?

Mrs E has horses in it