On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 11:40:56 -0500 (EST), justan wrote:

Wrote in message:
On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:50:45 -0500, wrote:

nobody actually enforces
the laws we have on guns.

===

I was pleasantly surprised to read about a couple of recent
convictions in Florida. I believe one was for lying on the purchase
questionaire.

https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/15/fort-myers-woman-found-guilty-lying-firearms-dealers/

Another was for possession by a felon.

https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/13/convicted-fort-myers-felon-receives-15-years-gun-possession/

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A little more investigsting would probably show she was making a
straw purchace. May the hardest of times fall upon
her.

===

The Feds have their hooks well set it appears. 10 years with no
possible parole is not a walk in the park.

On 12/1/17 11:10 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:50:45 -0500, wrote:

nobody actually enforces
the laws we have on guns.

===

I was pleasantly surprised to read about a couple of recent
convictions in Florida. I believe one was for lying on the purchase
questionaire.

https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/15/fort-myers-woman-found-guilty-lying-firearms-dealers/

Another was for possession by a felon.

https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/13/convicted-fort-myers-felon-receives-15-years-gun-possession/

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Not that this is the case with your cites, but I wonder sometimes about
purchases of firearms as gifts for other people. I assume if the
ultimate recipient is named on the paperwork, that person is checked out
on the instant check, at least, though I would think the actual
purchaser is also checked out.

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 12/1/17 11:10 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:50:45 -0500, wrote:

nobody actually enforces
the laws we have on guns.

===

I was pleasantly surprised to read about a couple of recent
convictions in Florida. I believe one was for lying on the purchase
questionaire.

https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/15/fort-myers-woman-found-guilty-lying-firearms-dealers/

Another was for possession by a felon.

https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/13/convicted-fort-myers-felon-receives-15-years-gun-possession/

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Not that this is the case with your cites, but I wonder sometimes about
purchases of firearms as gifts for other people. I assume if the
ultimate recipient is named on the paperwork, that person is checked out
on the instant check, at least, though I would think the actual
purchaser is also checked out.


Gifts could have a couple scenarios. I am going to gift a 22 rifle that
was my dad’s to my son in law. He already legally owns a pistol or two.
One he bought and one was his dad’s service revolver. His late dad was an
Los Angeles cop.

On 12/1/17 12:17 PM, Bill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 12/1/17 11:10 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:50:45 -0500, wrote:

nobody actually enforces
the laws we have on guns.

===

I was pleasantly surprised to read about a couple of recent
convictions in Florida. I believe one was for lying on the purchase
questionaire.

https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/15/fort-myers-woman-found-guilty-lying-firearms-dealers/

Another was for possession by a felon.

https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/13/convicted-fort-myers-felon-receives-15-years-gun-possession/

---
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http://www.avg.com



Not that this is the case with your cites, but I wonder sometimes about
purchases of firearms as gifts for other people. I assume if the
ultimate recipient is named on the paperwork, that person is checked out
on the instant check, at least, though I would think the actual
purchaser is also checked out.


Gifts could have a couple scenarios. I am going to gift a 22 rifle that
was my dad’s to my son in law. He already legally owns a pistol or two.
One he bought and one was his dad’s service revolver. His late dad was an
Los Angeles cop.


Gun laws seem incredibly inconsistent. If you buy a new rifle from a
dealer in Maryland, there's only the federal instant check. When I sold
a used rifle to a friend of a friend here in Maryland, I called the
state police to see if there were paperwork or background requirements,
and there were no federal requirements, either.

On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 12:11:10 -0500, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 12/1/17 11:10 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:50:45 -0500, wrote:

nobody actually enforces
the laws we have on guns.

===

I was pleasantly surprised to read about a couple of recent
convictions in Florida. I believe one was for lying on the purchase
questionaire.

https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/15/fort-myers-woman-found-guilty-lying-firearms-dealers/

Another was for possession by a felon.

https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/13/convicted-fort-myers-felon-receives-15-years-gun-possession/

---
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http://www.avg.com



Not that this is the case with your cites, but I wonder sometimes about
purchases of firearms as gifts for other people. I assume if the
ultimate recipient is named on the paperwork, that person is checked out
on the instant check, at least, though I would think the actual
purchaser is also checked out.

The ATF Form 4473 allows the purchase of a gun as a gift without naming the recipient. How do you
think all those Chicago boys get their guns?

Boy gives momma the money, momma goes out of town (Chuck's Gun Shop maybe), buys the gun with all
the correct answers on the 4473, and gives boy the gun. Amen.

Hey, it was a 'gift'.

On 12/1/2017 12:11 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 12/1/17 11:10 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:50:45 -0500, wrote:

nobody actually enforces
the laws we have on guns.

===

I was pleasantly surprised to read about a couple of recent
convictions in Florida.Â* I believe one was for lying on the purchase
questionaire.

https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/15/fort-myers-woman-found-guilty-lying-firearms-dealers/


Another was for possession by a felon.

https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/13/convicted-fort-myers-felon-receives-15-years-gun-possession/


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http://www.avg.com



Not that this is the case with your cites, but I wonder sometimes about
purchases of firearms as gifts for other people. I assume if the
ultimate recipient is named on the paperwork, that person is checked out
on the instant check, at least, though I would think the actual
purchaser is also checked out.

I've often thought about that. Without a proper paper trail it seems it
could get very cloudy as to where a gun came from and where it ends up.
For that reason, I'd never purchase a gun and give it as a gift. I
think all transactions should be through a FFL.

If someone wants a gun they can do like the rest of us do ... apply,
undergo a background check ... and become responsible and accountable
for it's location.

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/1/2017 12:11 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 12/1/17 11:10 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:50:45 -0500, wrote:

nobody actually enforces
the laws we have on guns.

===

I was pleasantly surprised to read about a couple of recent
convictions in Florida.Â* I believe one was for lying on the purchase
questionaire.

https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/15/fort-myers-woman-found-guilty-lying-firearms-dealers/



Another was for possession by a felon.

https://www.winknews.com/2017/11/13/convicted-fort-myers-felon-receives-15-years-gun-possession/



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Not that this is the case with your cites, but I wonder sometimes about
purchases of firearms as gifts for other people. I assume if the
ultimate recipient is named on the paperwork, that person is checked out
on the instant check, at least, though I would think the actual
purchaser is also checked out.

I've often thought about that. Without a proper paper trail it seems it
could get very cloudy as to where a gun came from and where it ends up.
For that reason, I'd never purchase a gun and give it as a gift. I
think all transactions should be through a FFL.

If someone wants a gun they can do like the rest of us do ... apply,
undergo a background check ... and become responsible and accountable
for it's location.




And how much does this cost?

On 12/1/2017 10:50 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 08:33:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

The "not guilty" verdicts of Jose Ines Garcia Zarate for 1st or 2nd
degree murder and involuntary manslaughter by the jury in San Fransisco
certainly has frustrated many. The judge charged the jury that they
could *not* consider his illegal immigrant status, the fact that he was
deported 6 times but returned and that he had multiple felony
convictions in their deliberations.

I think the family of Kathryn Steinle (who he shot and killed) should
file a civil lawsuit for "unlawful death", but not against Zarate. He
has nothing to recover.

The suit should be brought against the city of San Fransisco and the
state of California for at least a billion dollars. I think they should
charge the city and state for causing the unlawful death by maintaining
a "Sanctuary" status and releasing a convicted felon and illegal
immigrant back into the population in direct defiance of federal ICE
demands that he be held for pickup and deportation.

In a civil action the bar is "preponderance of evidence", not "beyond
any reasonable doubt".


They also only need a majority of jurors and the rules of evidence are
a lot looser. The problem is San Francisco may be as broke as this
murdering mo fo.
BTW NBC was reporting that this was a mistrial not an acquittal but it
does not shock me when they get it wrong.
I really find it surprising that the federal prosecutors can't find a
single thing to charge this guy with. Where did he get the gun? Isn't
it a federal violation for a felon to get a gun? Add up as many
federal charges as they can get, lock his ass up for a while then
deport him from Kansas or wherever he was "residing" at the time.
The cities may be able to provide sanctuary from ICE (although I am
not sure why) but they surely can't provide sanctuary from a federal
prosecutor with criminal charges.
If they had a sharp pencil they might be able to rack up a bunch of 10
year violations in gun charges alone ... but nobody actually enforces
the laws we have on guns.



I was watching as the verdicts were announced. I heard nothing about a
miss trial or acquittal. It was announced that the jury found him not
guilty of murder 1 or 2 and of involuntary manslaughter. He was found
guilty of felony possession of a firearm.

Last I heard prosecution was considering federal charges.

What worked in his favor in the trial is that his illegal alien status,
his history of deportations and his felony convictions were not allowed
by the judge to be introduced or considered by the jury. That left the
whole thing based on circumstantial evidence with no witness and no
apparent motive. That adds up to "reasonable doubt".