Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 16:46:00 -0500 (EST), justan wrote:

Keyser Soze Wrote in message:
On 1/13/17 4:28 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 1/13/2017 4:12 PM, justan wrote:
Keyser Soze Wrote in message:
On 1/13/17 2:40 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
I've been doing some research on smaller trucks to replace the F-250 I
have now. The main criteria is something that Mrs.E will feel
comfortable driving (meaning smaller) yet still has the tow capacity to
handle the little camper she bought last summer. Ideal would be a tow
capacity of 5K to 6K lbs to tow the little 4K lb. camper.

I happened to be looking at the Tacoma and recalled you posting that
yours is rated to tow 6,400 lbs. You also have said you have the four
cylinder, 4x4 with a manual transmission.

You might want to verify your tow rating for that configuration.
According to Toyota, it is only rated to tow 3,500 lbs. (2016 model
specs).

That ought to be able to haul a 20 ft Pahkah, his last known,
(thought to be real), boat.

And once again, you display your ignorance. The boat with engine and
gear and fuel was about 3400 pounds, and the trailer added substantially
to that, putting the weight of the full rig way over 3,500 pounds. Stick
to what you know, whatever that might be.

You agree with Luddite's findings then? You overstated your
capacity by a whopping 3000 pounds. Almost twice the real
capacity. I'm wondering if you know anything that really
matters.


I could have sworn that he told us that his Tacoma had the four cylinder
rather than the V6 but apparently I was wrong. The Tacoma with the V6
and the tow package is indeed rated for 6400 lbs towing.

I wonder what he'd tow with that bad boy?


Nothing larger than the typical open landscape utility trailer to take
my tractor in for service or to bring home many bags of mulch or a
couple of trees or many bushes. The mulch bags typically run about 40
pounds each, and I usually buy 100 bags of cedar mulch each season.

How many trips to the mulch place for 100 bags?
With mulch volume usually governs. Of course Harry's probably using ironwood mulch where weight
would govern.

If that's premium mulch he wouldn't need to replace it with 100 bags
each year. I call BS.

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Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 16:41:00 -0500 (EST), justan wrote:

Keyser Soze Wrote in message:
On 1/13/17 4:16 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/13/2017 4:12 PM, justan wrote:
Keyser Soze Wrote in message:
On 1/13/17 2:40 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
I've been doing some research on smaller trucks to replace the F-250 I
have now. The main criteria is something that Mrs.E will feel
comfortable driving (meaning smaller) yet still has the tow
capacity to
handle the little camper she bought last summer. Ideal would be a tow
capacity of 5K to 6K lbs to tow the little 4K lb. camper.

I happened to be looking at the Tacoma and recalled you posting that
yours is rated to tow 6,400 lbs. You also have said you have the four
cylinder, 4x4 with a manual transmission.

You might want to verify your tow rating for that configuration.
According to Toyota, it is only rated to tow 3,500 lbs. (2016 model
specs).

That ought to be able to haul a 20 ft Pahkah, his last known,
(thought to be real), boat.

And once again, you display your ignorance. The boat with engine and
gear and fuel was about 3400 pounds, and the trailer added substantially
to that, putting the weight of the full rig way over 3,500 pounds. Stick
to what you know, whatever that might be.

You agree with Luddite's findings then? You overstated your
capacity by a whopping 3000 pounds. Almost twice the real
capacity. I'm wondering if you know anything that really
matters.


I could have sworn that he told us that his Tacoma had the four cylinder
rather than the V6 but apparently I was wrong. The Tacoma with the V6
and the tow package is indeed rated for 6400 lbs towing.
No, I wouldn't have bought a four-cylinder gasoline engine truck. I am,
however, very impressed with the four-cylinder engine in my wife's
Toyota Camry and probably wouldn't consider a car with a V-6 or V-8. The
Camry is peppy, and cruises at interstate speed limits with the engine
loafing.

My new car has a v6. A 2.2 litre 4 with a turbo doesn' t meet my
requirements for the vehicle. Gas mileage is better than my
wife's crv. Go figure.
My wife got the top of the line Subaru to replace the VW diesel. Took it on the trip to Tampa. Very
nice to drive and quite peppy with the four cylinder. In cruise control it automatically slows when
pulling up behind a slower mover, then speeds back up when the lane is changed. Hell, there's
nothing to do but keep the damn thing between the lines. And, without a signal on, the thing beeps
at you when you get too close to a line. Got right around 30mpg for the trip.

Subaru makes very nice cars. I've never heard a complaint from an owner.

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On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 20:05:47 -0500, Alex wrote:

Mr. Luddite wrote:

I've been doing some research on smaller trucks to replace the F-250 I
have now. The main criteria is something that Mrs.E will feel
comfortable driving (meaning smaller) yet still has the tow capacity
to handle the little camper she bought last summer. Ideal would be a
tow capacity of 5K to 6K lbs to tow the little 4K lb. camper.

I happened to be looking at the Tacoma and recalled you posting that
yours is rated to tow 6,400 lbs. You also have said you have the four
cylinder, 4x4 with a manual transmission.

You might want to verify your tow rating for that configuration.
According to Toyota, it is only rated to tow 3,500 lbs. (2016 model
specs).

It also has lousy reviews.

No, it has a great review! Funnier than ****:

"For all of Toyota’s claims that this is an all-new truck, key features seem as though Toyota slept
through the past decade’s advances in truck technology and interior design.

Today’s modern full-sized trucks feature a quiet cabin, a semblance of handling responsiveness, and
a tolerable ride. But the compact Tacoma has none of that.

Unlike other V6-powered Toyota models, our tested Tacoma never feels quick from a standing start or
when passing—despite the robust acceleration figures as measured on our track. Fuel economy with the
not-so-smooth six-speed automatic transmission is 19 mpg overall on regular gas, quite good for a
truck and a clear improvement over its predecessor.

Out on the road, the Tacoma’s handling is ponderous, and its slow and numb steering never connects
the driver to the front wheels. Clearly clumsy around corners, it never felt unsafe. The chassis’s
propensity to jiggle and shudder delivers a Metallica snare-drum beat to your spine. Wind and engine
noise drown out any chance of conversation, even at modest speeds. Braking performance is subpar.

Inside, it still has a too-high step-in, a too-low driver’s seat, and a ceiling that scrapes scalps
of those entering the cabin.

The front seats are flat and uncomfortable, have limited support, and offer only the most basic
adjustments. The rear seat in our crew cab is no better, with hard padding, cramped leg and foot
room, and short cushions—although it flips up to reveal useful storage bins. Outward visibility is
decent, but the narrow, shallow windows make it less commanding.

Controls are basic and easy to read—essential when reaching for some of the faraway knobs and
buttons."

Excerpted from the June 2016 issue of Consumer Reports magazine.

Poco Loco Wrote in message:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 20:05:47 -0500, Alex wrote:

Mr. Luddite wrote:

I've been doing some research on smaller trucks to replace the F-250 I
have now. The main criteria is something that Mrs.E will feel
comfortable driving (meaning smaller) yet still has the tow capacity
to handle the little camper she bought last summer. Ideal would be a
tow capacity of 5K to 6K lbs to tow the little 4K lb. camper.

I happened to be looking at the Tacoma and recalled you posting that
yours is rated to tow 6,400 lbs. You also have said you have the four
cylinder, 4x4 with a manual transmission.

You might want to verify your tow rating for that configuration.
According to Toyota, it is only rated to tow 3,500 lbs. (2016 model
specs).

It also has lousy reviews.

No, it has a great review! Funnier than ****:

"For all of Toyota’s claims that this is an all-new truck, key features seem as though Toyota slept
through the past decade’s advances in truck technology and interior design.

Today’s modern full-sized trucks feature a quiet cabin, a semblance of handling responsiveness, and
a tolerable ride. But the compact Tacoma has none of that.

Unlike other V6-powered Toyota models, our tested Tacoma never feels quick from a standing start or
when passing—despite the robust acceleration figures as measured on our track. Fuel economy with the
not-so-smooth six-speed automatic transmission is 19 mpg overall on regular gas, quite good for a
truck and a clear improvement over its predecessor.

Out on the road, the Tacoma’s handling is ponderous, and its slow and numb steering never connects
the driver to the front wheels. Clearly clumsy around corners, it never felt unsafe. The chassis’s
propensity to jiggle and shudder delivers a Metallica snare-drum beat to your spine. Wind and engine
noise drown out any chance of conversation, even at modest speeds. Braking performance is subpar.

Inside, it still has a too-high step-in, a too-low driver’s seat, and a ceiling that scrapes scalps
of those entering the cabin.

The front seats are flat and uncomfortable, have limited support, and offer only the most basic
adjustments. The rear seat in our crew cab is no better, with hard padding, cramped leg and foot
room, and short cushions—although it flips up to reveal useful storage bins. Outward visibility is
decent, but the narrow, shallow windows make it less commanding.

Controls are basic and easy to read—essential when reaching for some of the faraway knobs and
buttons."

Excerpted from the June 2016 issue of Consumer Reports magazine.


Reportedly, Krause is a big fella. How is he gonna fit in the
cramped cabin of a Tacoma?
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Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 20:05:47 -0500, Alex wrote:

Mr. Luddite wrote:
I've been doing some research on smaller trucks to replace the F-250 I
have now. The main criteria is something that Mrs.E will feel
comfortable driving (meaning smaller) yet still has the tow capacity
to handle the little camper she bought last summer. Ideal would be a
tow capacity of 5K to 6K lbs to tow the little 4K lb. camper.

I happened to be looking at the Tacoma and recalled you posting that
yours is rated to tow 6,400 lbs. You also have said you have the four
cylinder, 4x4 with a manual transmission.

You might want to verify your tow rating for that configuration.
According to Toyota, it is only rated to tow 3,500 lbs. (2016 model
specs).
It also has lousy reviews.

No, it has a great review! Funnier than ****:

"For all of Toyota’s claims that this is an all-new truck, key features seem as though Toyota slept
through the past decade’s advances in truck technology and interior design.

Today’s modern full-sized trucks feature a quiet cabin, a semblance of handling responsiveness, and
a tolerable ride. But the compact Tacoma has none of that.

Unlike other V6-powered Toyota models, our tested Tacoma never feels quick from a standing start or
when passing—despite the robust acceleration figures as measured on our track. Fuel economy with the
not-so-smooth six-speed automatic transmission is 19 mpg overall on regular gas, quite good for a
truck and a clear improvement over its predecessor.

Out on the road, the Tacoma’s handling is ponderous, and its slow and numb steering never connects
the driver to the front wheels. Clearly clumsy around corners, it never felt unsafe. The chassis’s
propensity to jiggle and shudder delivers a Metallica snare-drum beat to your spine. Wind and engine
noise drown out any chance of conversation, even at modest speeds. Braking performance is subpar.

Inside, it still has a too-high step-in, a too-low driver’s seat, and a ceiling that scrapes scalps
of those entering the cabin.

The front seats are flat and uncomfortable, have limited support, and offer only the most basic
adjustments. The rear seat in our crew cab is no better, with hard padding, cramped leg and foot
room, and short cushions—although it flips up to reveal useful storage bins. Outward visibility is
decent, but the narrow, shallow windows make it less commanding.

Controls are basic and easy to read—essential when reaching for some of the faraway knobs and
buttons."

Excerpted from the June 2016 issue of Consumer Reports magazine.

That's the same review I read. It was uncharacteristic of CR so it must
be really that bad. I'm sure this is what convinced Harry to buy it:
"Controls are basic and easy to read"

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To bad you can't wait until 2019. Ford has a new Ranger pickup coming out then. A new Bronco is coming out in 2020 and the F-150 will be getting a 3.0L Powerstroke diesel in 2018. I think down the road that 3.0 diesel will find its way into other Ford products such as the Ranger, Bronco, Expedition and Explorer.

On Friday, January 13, 2017 at 4:23:57 PM UTC-6, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 16:41:00 -0500 (EST), justan wrote:

Keyser Soze Wrote in message:
On 1/13/17 4:16 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/13/2017 4:12 PM, justan wrote:
Keyser Soze Wrote in message:
On 1/13/17 2:40 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:

I've been doing some research on smaller trucks to replace the F-250 I
have now. The main criteria is something that Mrs.E will feel
comfortable driving (meaning smaller) yet still has the tow
capacity to
handle the little camper she bought last summer. Ideal would be a tow
capacity of 5K to 6K lbs to tow the little 4K lb. camper.

I happened to be looking at the Tacoma and recalled you posting that
yours is rated to tow 6,400 lbs. You also have said you have the four
cylinder, 4x4 with a manual transmission.

You might want to verify your tow rating for that configuration.
According to Toyota, it is only rated to tow 3,500 lbs. (2016 model
specs).


That ought to be able to haul a 20 ft Pahkah, his last known,
(thought to be real), boat.


And once again, you display your ignorance. The boat with engine and
gear and fuel was about 3400 pounds, and the trailer added substantially
to that, putting the weight of the full rig way over 3,500 pounds. Stick
to what you know, whatever that might be.


You agree with Luddite's findings then? You overstated your
capacity by a whopping 3000 pounds. Almost twice the real
capacity. I'm wondering if you know anything that really
matters.



I could have sworn that he told us that his Tacoma had the four cylinder
rather than the V6 but apparently I was wrong. The Tacoma with the V6
and the tow package is indeed rated for 6400 lbs towing.

No, I wouldn't have bought a four-cylinder gasoline engine truck. I am,
however, very impressed with the four-cylinder engine in my wife's
Toyota Camry and probably wouldn't consider a car with a V-6 or V-8. The
Camry is peppy, and cruises at interstate speed limits with the engine
loafing.


My new car has a v6. A 2.2 litre 4 with a turbo doesn' t meet my
requirements for the vehicle. Gas mileage is better than my
wife's crv. Go figure.

My wife got the top of the line Subaru to replace the VW diesel. Took it on the trip to Tampa. Very
nice to drive and quite peppy with the four cylinder. In cruise control it automatically slows when
pulling up behind a slower mover, then speeds back up when the lane is changed. Hell, there's
nothing to do but keep the damn thing between the lines. And, without a signal on, the thing beeps
at you when you get too close to a line. Got right around 30mpg for the trip.

wifes 2016 Honda CRV has all the 4cyl pep you need and gets 32-36 with cruise locked on 65

On 1/13/2017 11:35 PM, RGrew176 wrote:
Mr. Luddite;1074809 Wrote:
I've been doing some research on smaller trucks to replace the F-250 I
have now. The main criteria is something that Mrs.E will feel
comfortable driving (meaning smaller) yet still has the tow capacity to

handle the little camper she bought last summer. Ideal would be a tow
capacity of 5K to 6K lbs to tow the little 4K lb. camper.

I happened to be looking at the Tacoma and recalled you posting that
yours is rated to tow 6,400 lbs. You also have said you have the four
cylinder, 4x4 with a manual transmission.

You might want to verify your tow rating for that configuration.
According to Toyota, it is only rated to tow 3,500 lbs. (2016 model
specs).



To bad you can't wait until 2019. Ford has a new Ranger pickup coming
out then. A new Bronco is coming out in 2020 and the F-150 will be
getting a 3.0L Powerstroke diesel in 2018. I think down the road that
3.0 diesel will find its way into other Ford products such as the
Ranger, Bronco, Expedition and Explorer.

Is that when the new Ranger is debuting? I'd actually like to wait and
see because according to the press release I saw it will be a
"mid-sized" truck. I really liked the Ranger as did a lot of other
people. You certainly see a lot of them on the road. The problem is
that I am not so sure her Mountaineer will last that long. She uses it
a lot and it has about 175K miles on it now.

The only bad experience I've ever had with Ford products was the 2005
F-350 diesel (6.0L) and it's problems were all related to the
International engine. If those problems hadn't existed I'd probably
still be driving it now.

On 1/13/2017 11:51 PM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, January 13, 2017 at 4:23:57 PM UTC-6, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 16:41:00 -0500 (EST), justan wrote:

Keyser Soze Wrote in message:
On 1/13/17 4:16 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/13/2017 4:12 PM, justan wrote:
Keyser Soze Wrote in message:
On 1/13/17 2:40 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:

I've been doing some research on smaller trucks to replace the F-250 I
have now. The main criteria is something that Mrs.E will feel
comfortable driving (meaning smaller) yet still has the tow
capacity to
handle the little camper she bought last summer. Ideal would be a tow
capacity of 5K to 6K lbs to tow the little 4K lb. camper.

I happened to be looking at the Tacoma and recalled you posting that
yours is rated to tow 6,400 lbs. You also have said you have the four
cylinder, 4x4 with a manual transmission.

You might want to verify your tow rating for that configuration.
According to Toyota, it is only rated to tow 3,500 lbs. (2016 model
specs).


That ought to be able to haul a 20 ft Pahkah, his last known,
(thought to be real), boat.


And once again, you display your ignorance. The boat with engine and
gear and fuel was about 3400 pounds, and the trailer added substantially
to that, putting the weight of the full rig way over 3,500 pounds. Stick
to what you know, whatever that might be.


You agree with Luddite's findings then? You overstated your
capacity by a whopping 3000 pounds. Almost twice the real
capacity. I'm wondering if you know anything that really
matters.



I could have sworn that he told us that his Tacoma had the four cylinder
rather than the V6 but apparently I was wrong. The Tacoma with the V6
and the tow package is indeed rated for 6400 lbs towing.

No, I wouldn't have bought a four-cylinder gasoline engine truck. I am,
however, very impressed with the four-cylinder engine in my wife's
Toyota Camry and probably wouldn't consider a car with a V-6 or V-8. The
Camry is peppy, and cruises at interstate speed limits with the engine
loafing.


My new car has a v6. A 2.2 litre 4 with a turbo doesn' t meet my
requirements for the vehicle. Gas mileage is better than my
wife's crv. Go figure.

My wife got the top of the line Subaru to replace the VW diesel. Took it on the trip to Tampa. Very
nice to drive and quite peppy with the four cylinder. In cruise control it automatically slows when
pulling up behind a slower mover, then speeds back up when the lane is changed. Hell, there's
nothing to do but keep the damn thing between the lines. And, without a signal on, the thing beeps
at you when you get too close to a line. Got right around 30mpg for the trip.

wifes 2016 Honda CRV has all the 4cyl pep you need and gets 32-36 with cruise locked on 65


Does that have the "shiftless" transmission? The Altima has that and
initially it took a little getting used to. Now I like it. Plenty of
acceleration when you need it, even on the highway when you stomp on it.
After driving the truck mostly, I have been amazed at the gas mileage.

On 1/13/17 10:57 PM, Alex wrote:
Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 20:05:47 -0500, Alex wrote:

Mr. Luddite wrote:
I've been doing some research on smaller trucks to replace the F-250 I
have now. The main criteria is something that Mrs.E will feel
comfortable driving (meaning smaller) yet still has the tow capacity
to handle the little camper she bought last summer. Ideal would be a
tow capacity of 5K to 6K lbs to tow the little 4K lb. camper.

I happened to be looking at the Tacoma and recalled you posting that
yours is rated to tow 6,400 lbs. You also have said you have the four
cylinder, 4x4 with a manual transmission.

You might want to verify your tow rating for that configuration.
According to Toyota, it is only rated to tow 3,500 lbs. (2016 model
specs).
It also has lousy reviews.

No, it has a great review! Funnier than ****:

"For all of Toyota’s claims that this is an all-new truck, key
features seem as though Toyota slept
through the past decade’s advances in truck technology and interior
design.

Today’s modern full-sized trucks feature a quiet cabin, a semblance of
handling responsiveness, and
a tolerable ride. But the compact Tacoma has none of that.

Unlike other V6-powered Toyota models, our tested Tacoma never feels
quick from a standing start or
when passing—despite the robust acceleration figures as measured on
our track. Fuel economy with the
not-so-smooth six-speed automatic transmission is 19 mpg overall on
regular gas, quite good for a
truck and a clear improvement over its predecessor.

Out on the road, the Tacoma’s handling is ponderous, and its slow and
numb steering never connects
the driver to the front wheels. Clearly clumsy around corners, it
never felt unsafe. The chassis’s
propensity to jiggle and shudder delivers a Metallica snare-drum beat
to your spine. Wind and engine
noise drown out any chance of conversation, even at modest speeds.
Braking performance is subpar.

Inside, it still has a too-high step-in, a too-low driver’s seat, and
a ceiling that scrapes scalps
of those entering the cabin.

The front seats are flat and uncomfortable, have limited support, and
offer only the most basic
adjustments. The rear seat in our crew cab is no better, with hard
padding, cramped leg and foot
room, and short cushions—although it flips up to reveal useful storage
bins. Outward visibility is
decent, but the narrow, shallow windows make it less commanding.

Controls are basic and easy to read—essential when reaching for some
of the faraway knobs and
buttons."

Excerpted from the June 2016 issue of Consumer Reports magazine.

That's the same review I read. It was uncharacteristic of CR so it must
be really that bad. I'm sure this is what convinced Harry to buy it:
"Controls are basic and easy to read"



I thought the CR review was hilarious. When I bought my 2016 Tacoma, the
only other "choice" for a pickup in that class was the Chevy-GM model
and the Tacomas had a better resale value historically and much better
reliability. I doubt that has changed. The Honda pickup was and still
isn't a real truck and the Dodge offering is...well, the typical
Dodge-Jeep crapola. The Nissan is not a contender.

My truck is quiet enough for me to listen to my favorite classical music
at moderate sound pressure levels. It'll do 0-60 in under 8 seconds and
probably closer to 7, fast enough for a pickup truck. I'm getting 22-24
mpg in our suburban area with my manual transmission V-6. The "handling"
is typical pickup truck, exactly what I would expect. There's no chassis
jiggle or shudder. The model I have has heavier duty shocks and springs,
which serve it well off-road.

The step-in is high, but my truck is a 4X4 with a raised suspension.
Duh. I've yet to "scrap" my scalp while getting into the cab.

The reality is, if one of the right-wing deplorables here had the truck,
most of the fellow deplorables would be singing its praise.

I think the testers at CR were looking for a Honda Civic in a truck, as
opposed to...a truck.